Seatbelt

I'm thinking of getting an R/C plane (no duh) and after reading a bit, it seems that the Firebird Scout is a pretty good plane for its price. It's price is probably the maximum im willing to fork out, give or take a couple of dollars. I don't understand how a 2CH plane works though, do you need elevators for sharper turning, altitude etc? A typical real life plane needs throttle, ailerons and elevator, that's 3 channels. So how does a 2CH plane work?

Also, for those who have Firebird Scouts, do you pull back the left stick or push it forward to make it climb? Is the plane stable? Why does the left tailplane control surface move up when you steer right? Wouldn't that lead to it turning left?

Are there any other planes that would be better than the Firebird Scout for its price?

Thanks for your help

jeffames

I am a newbie to RC airplanes, but a newbie that may have some answers for you. The Firebird / Aerobird series from Hobbyzone all have "V" tails called "ruddervators". The bare minimum 2 channel provides A) throttle power for lift, and B) rudder control for steering. These planes are configured to lift when the prop is turning, and descend when it is not. As for steering, ruddervators provide mixing controls via one channel operation. Ailerons are not introduced in most trainer type planes. Once a newbie has some experience with basic lift and rudder use, the transition to aileron type planes can be acheived. If you see yourself advancing in this hobby, as I intend to do as well, I would advise against "V" tail configurations. If you are happy with just getting into this real cheap and getting a plane in the air, then the Firebird is your most cost effective way. If you want to get into a true elevator and rudder control plane, I would recommend as would many others the GWS Slow Stick. It is a slow flying, 3 channel, great entry level plane. If you want an inexpensive RTF that is not "V" tail, look into the T-Hawk by Toytronics. It is a more traditional entry level plane, about the same price as the Firebird.

Here is a link: http://www.readytoflyfun.com/thawk3chrtf.html


We have a great bunch of people in Northern California called the Sacramento Area Modelers. I have been hanging out at the club field and absorbing any info that anyone could offer. I suggest this to anyone interested in jumping into the hobby. The wealth of experience at these clubs is the best tool in making an educated decision on what to buy. Pair that with a good hobby shop and you are sure to get all the help you will ever need, and sometimes more than you asked for!

Jeff

GWS Slow Stick, JR 6102PCM

Seatbelt

Thanks for your time jeffames

How does the throttle work? Pushing it forward makes it rise, leaving it in central position shuts off the motor? And pulling back makes it descent?

jeffames

My understanding of the planes exact throttle usage is not known. I have heard that some are either on or off power via a toggle switch, meaning there is only full power with switch on (makes the plane climb), and no power with it off (forcing a descent). Some planes are variable with up being more throttle and bringing the stick down lowers the prop speed (center might make for level flight), full down being off (no power means plane comes down). My advice would be to get a demo from your local hobby store or email the manufacturer of whatever plane you are considering. Always, always keep in mind that wind plays a big part in any flight. If you live in an area that has frequent winds, something with more power is likely to help you keep control. The razors edge to that is, with more power comes more speed. Be sure to get something that your skill level can control. I am not an expert but as I have said, I have talked and more importantly listened to many veteran RC pilots at a local club and they were very helpful in making my decision. If you have that kind of a resource, I would recommend a visit out to watch them and strike up a conversation. They may have some planes on hand that they could show you or at least have had some stick time with something you may be looking at buying. Good luck.

Jeff

WolfeWind

Throttle can be proportional - variable speed from full on to full off -, or an on/off toggle switch (don't even consider one of those).

More speed makes the plane climb because the lift on the wing increases with more speed. Less speed makes the plane descend because the lift is reduced. There is a sweet spot, generally referred to as cruising speed, where the plane will maintian a stable altitude and neither climb not descend. Exactly what throttle setting that is depends on a lot of things and will change for each airplane.

The Scout is not a very good flyer from what I have seen. It does have proprtional throttle, but it is pretty fast and does not climb well. It's probably worth the money, but I would suggest moving up to the Commander if you want to stay with Hobbyzone.

The best beginner planes are those with pusher type motors where the motor is behind the wing and is protected in a crash. There are several pretty good ones - just check out the threads.

If you are willing to do some building, then the Mountain Models Magpie is hard to beat. There is a video of one that I just build for my sons to fly here.....

http://www.novellahub.com/index.php?...ewtopic&t=1830

fredbobjoe

My Feedback: (2)

i own a firebird scout, and neutreal left stick stops the motor, and you push down on the left stick before every flight and it arms the motor. pushing the left stick down does not effect the flight at all. throttle and steering is proportional, and if you wanted to know, it can ROG, you just need a big enough parking lot. hope my eperience helps. these are very good planes

Deereret

My Feedback: (1)

Here is another thread on the Firebird Scout. There is a lot more info there.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/boug...2414452/tm.htm

Seatbelt

Have you guys heard of the Electrafun XP or the Venom Freedom Flyer? Both are 3CH Planes. Would they be good for beginners or would they prove too much and so I should get a Scout? Which plane design is better, one with the propeller on the nose, or with the propeller on the rear of the fuselage (like the scout)? Thanks again.

flyingace451

I own a Scout and, so far, it is the only plane I have. It can truely take a beating. I have crashed it so many times and my piece of advice if you get it is...DON'T FLY IN A LOT OF WIND!!!! I have had 2 scouts in my life and the wind is what lost the first one. The firebird Commander I would say is much better for flight characteristics but if you want to get down the basics of flying then the scout is the way to go.

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

Seatbelt,

Welcome to RC flying, I hope you will enjoy it and keep us all informed of your progress.

I am not a newbie, so let me help clarify a few ponts made by Jeff.

V tails are very popular on two groups of planes. Entry level parkflyers and mid to advanced sailplanes. There is no reason to avoid V tail planes as a new flyer as they can provide comparable controls to standard tail configurations. But that is dependent on the plane and not the tail configuration.

For the parkies, the main advantage is they typically avoid damage when landing because the V tail does not drag through the grass on landing the way a conventional tail would. Saves a lot of tail damage. This is also an advantage on sailplanes where landing gear is typically not used and the planes are belly landed. There are other values brought by V tails, but that is outside the scope of this particular forum.

V tails can be single function, such as the rudder provided by the Firebird series.

They can be single function elevator V tails.

Or they can be dual funciton, like the Aerobird series, providing both rudder and elevator. That was why I selected the Aerobird over the Firebirds. I wanted a full three channel plane as my first RC plane.

While many electic starter planes do not have ailerons, most glow powered trainers do have ailerons. However the glow planes are more likely flown on club fields and the pilots are more commonly under an instructor's guidence. For self trainers on electrics, the trend is to go three channel, R/E/Throttle. Although you can have Throttle/Elevator/Aileron three channel planes just as well, such as the Sky Scooter and Space Scooter.

As to how the two channel firebirds climb on throttle. A little on airplane design.

The Center of Gravity, the CG, is a balance point on a plane. When the plane is supported by the wing, the weight forward and behind this point is equal. If you push down behind the CG while the plane is flying, this will cause the plane to pivot around the CG and tip the nose up. If you look at a Firebird Commander or the Scout, for example, you will notice that the motor is behind the wing and is tipped up toward the back. So, when the plane is flying, when you apply throttle, this pushes down slightly behind the CG causing the nose to come up. This presents the wing to the oncoming air in an upward angle which causes the plane to climb if there is enough speed. That is how they do it. Very clever airplane design!

This makes for a very simple flight control system and prevents the new flyer from accidentally pushing too much down elevator which can cause a plane to crash. So, the plane behaves as if there is an up elevator function, controlled by the throttle stick, but it has no down elevator function. Helps keep new flyers out of trouble as long as they are flying in calm air, say under 5 mph.

However, if you get into wind about that speed you can start to get into trouble. The way one flys a plane into the wind is to push the nose down slightly to "penetrate". But these two channel planes don't have a down elevator to do that. So if you fly on a windy day, and you hit the throttle to try and fight the wind, the plane starts to climb and the wind sometimes pushes it backwards making it very easy to lose these planes in the wind.

The Sout is this kind of plane. Lots of fun and very easy to fly but don't take it out in more than 5 MPH winds unless you want to lose it.

I hope this was helpful.

Seatbelt

Very helpful reply. I have, however, already bought my Electrafun XP (much like the T-Hawk) 2 days ago. I launched it for the first time and it just turned right, I put full right rudder but it kept going right until the whole crashed and cartwheeled into the ground. I had to use some putty to balance the weight out so it would fly "more" straight. It did, and it flew well, except it took a long distance to complete turns. It then spiral dived and crashed straight into the ground nose first from 40m up. Now some wings ripped and the rudder servo is broken I think since the rudder won't respond []

flyingace451

OUCH!!! Wow that had to hurt. Well at least you still have your plane. Mine was lost in a tree and it is still up there. That poor firebird Scout. He didn't stand a chance. LOL

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

Getting Planes out of Trees
Amended 10/23/04

I don't know if trees and planes are attracted to each other like magnets, but
somehow we seem to be pulling someone out of a tree every few weeks.
Fortunately it is not me these days, though I am sure I will find one again.
I can see them reaching for the plane as I fly by. The guys tell me it is the
wind, but I think they are calling my plane.

So, how do you get your plane out of a tree? Here are some methods I use, or
have seen used. Some are simple and cheap. Some are complex and some are
expensive. You have to decide which to use and when.

In my book, chain saws, axes and things that will kill the tree are not an
option. Call me a tree hugger, but I just can't see cutting down a tree to
get a plane. There is usually a better option.

I am going to list the ones I know, roughly in effective range. I hope you
can provide some others, preferably before I need them.

8-12 Feet (2-4 meters) -

Good old hand reach combined with anything to stand on and maybe a local stick
or branch - Cost $0

10-30 Feet (3-10 meters) -

When I fly I bring a 6 foot extension pole for a paint roller that I purchased
in Home Depot for $14. It extends to 12 feet. I have seen 4, 8 and 10
footers that double as well. I also saw an 8 footer that almost triples to
about 22 feet. If you use some tape you can tape 2-3 of these together to
reach higher.

15-50 Feet (5-16 meters) - ( I have too much experience at this height)

I carry a spool of 130 pound test mason's line in my field box that has an 8
ounce rounded fishing weight attached to it. Costs about $5 total. With a
good throw I can usually get it up and over the branch holding the plane so I
can shake it free. Hitting the branch can take lots of throws and hitting the
plane is a real risk, but it is better than leaving it there. If your plane
is sitting on a very strong branch, use the lighter line to pull up a heavier
line.

Monofiliment fishing line works very well too at it will slide down over the
branch more easily than the mason's line. I use 3-4 foot piece of rope with
weight on the end which I attach to the fishing line with a snap. The rope is
easier to grab to make the toss and it is easy to remove. Works very well.
Plumbing parts, big bolts, anything can be used to weight the rope so it will
go up to where the plane lies. 50 feet is about the max I have ever been able
to reach this way and it is hard to get the line up that high.

A spinning rod with a weight migh also work if you are talented with such
things, but 60 feet would be my guestimate on the limit on this.

Another way is to use aluminum downspouts, typically used for house gutter
system. Home Depot, Lowes and other home centers have them. They can be
taped together. Use something to bridge the joint to help keep them erect.
They are very light and fairly rigid. You can probably get up to 5 sections
reaching about 50 feet. Not sure if you can go much beyond that. Friends
have had good success with this.

30-100 feet (9-32 meters) -

A bow and arrow might work well at this height, but you'll have to develop
some skill
in order to get the needed accuracy. I estimate this at $50-$100 - One
problem is that you can get the arrow stuck on a different branch which only
compounds your problem. The line will have to be light, such as 5-10 lbs test
monofiliment fishing line, so use it to pull up
heavier line or so you can break it if the arrow gets stuck.

Other methods I have heard about but never used or witnessed.

Tree climber - Somehow every RC club has the phone number of a guy who climbs
trees for a fee.

Helo - I heard of one guy who used an electric helo to fly a line and weight
up and had some kind of release to drop it onto the branch. Sounds like a
good justification for a helo when I speak with my wife.

A really original idea

Control line kite - This one surprised me, but one of our members got his
plane stuck in the top of a high tree, over 100 feet up. He also flies the
large kites that look like arc shaped parachutes. He has two control lines on
the kite that let him direct it, dive it and move it around the sky. He used
it to attack the tree until the tree gave up the plane. I like the idea of
attacking the tree without actually hurting it!

A Wanger - A device specifically for getting planes out of trees
http://www.slopeflyer.com/artman/pub...rticle_6.shtml

flyingace451

I am a one of those tree climbers. I don't charge though and I don't go to clubs yet. My friend got his Firebird Commander stuck in a tree about 50-60 feet up and I climbed up about 40 feet and used a fishing rod to get it down. I like climbing so I enjoyed the view of my neighborhood. I did get some scracthes and cuts though. I do know a way to get it down that could work for me. I own a slingshot and am fairly good with it. I am also a fishing nut ([link=http://www.billdanceoutdoors.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum;f=6]another forum I go to[/link]) So I have plenty of mono line lying around. You could shoot a wait attached to mono over the branch. If you are really desperate, buy a BB and try and shoot a part of your plane that can be replaced.

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

I have tried the weight with the slingshot idea. Didn't work for me at all.

If you do that, tell me what you use for weight and what you use for line. I have a nice wrist rocket!

flyingace451

I hope you aren't asking me to get my plane stuck in a tree on purpose are you? LOL that slingshot would be a last resort because I am not very accurate. I would probably hit my plane but that could also be a good thing.

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

I have not been able to find anyting that I could successfully shoot from the sling that would carry any kind of line.

BuzzBomber

My Feedback: (4)

I have used a big ol' nut, something like 3/4" with kite line tied around it--not very accurate, but it worked on a 60' hickory.

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

Will have to give that a try. Maybe the line I was using was too heavy.

Ho Malone

On my first tree experience, I was lucky enough to have numerous sections of old aluminum tent poles that fit together( I save everything) I was able to but about thirty feet of poles together and weave them up through the branches. actually, the branches helped steady the long swaying pole. Now, whenever I go off to some open field somewhere, I take the pole sections with me in the pu bed.

Ho Malone

Any of you know what diameter the carbon tube tail rod is? and how to get the tailwing mounting V off of the old tube?

flyingace451

I have replaced the tail of mine before so I can finally answer something. (yay!)

To remove it:

1) remove the rubber band that stretches down under the tail.
2) Detach the control lines from the flappy thingies.
3) Turn the plane upside down and remove the 2 screws on the bottom. (you need a small screwdriver!)
4) after you unscrew it, the tail just simply falls off.

I'll try and measure the tube for ya.

WARNING: Do not climb the tree! I got a serious case of poison ivy and had a needle go into my arm at the doctors today.

Ho Malone

ok, I appreciate the reply, but I don't think you quite understand. I am not talking about replacing the tail wings, i want to replace the black carbon fiber rod. ( mine is broken ) As I am sure you noticed, the bottom half of the v-support that the replacement tali wing fits into is attached to the tail rod. If i replace the entire rod, I need to have that bottom v-support to mount the new tailwing to.

flyingace451

Ooooooooo.....hm...that changes everything. Well, if you are willing to spend 30 bucks than you could go buy a new fuse for your plane. How is it broken? Is it snapped in half, bent, etc...? A little more input on what is broken and maybe one of us could help. If it is broken in half you could glue the pieces together. Could you maybe even take a picture for us?[sm=confused.gif] If you do have 30 dollars lying around buying a new fuse is the easiest way to go.

cfsn1

i like eggs