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Aerobird Swift problems.

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Old 03-09-2007, 05:03 AM
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Ranametalera
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Default Aerobird Swift problems.

Hi guys, i justy bought an aerobird Swift, i went to a nice place to fly it, everything was well done ( i tought it was :P) trims at center, battery full charged, nice motor sound, etc. When i tryed to put it in the sky my plane just went to the floor as many times as i tryed to put it in the air, my manual talks about some screws for get a good clim rate but information its so short, it talks about 2 screws, im not sure if those are the 2 yellow screws on tail, i see under the tail some planes use a ruberband i dont know if my plance must to use one too, manual dosent talk about, and i see a little black plastic piece with a ruberband on it wich i cant figurate where i must to place it manual dosent talk about that piece too, plese guys any help, any advise in advance is very helpfull, ill put some pictures about Tail to make it more easy, THX!!!!!

Sorry about my english =)
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Old 03-09-2007, 06:14 AM
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tam popo
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Default RE: Aerobird Swift problems.

Hiya! You are right, the 2 screws at back need adjusting. Tighten the one at the front and loosen the one at the back - this slants the rear fins to give more elevator up force. Also you could adjust the metal srews holding the control horns. On the swift you do need alot of elevator up to get lift, more than on most planes (don't know why). Are you launching by hand or off the ground. The tips I've given are mainly for off the ground take-offs. There is a forum for Swift owners with lots of tips etc. Nice to meet someone here from Mexico - are you a newbie to rc flight and what other planes do you fly. Habla espanol mi amigo?
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Old 03-09-2007, 11:24 AM
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Default RE: Aerobird Swift problems.

Hi man, thx for answer, yes i speak spanish but ill speak english here to respect forum, man im glad to find you in my language gonna be more easy, ok, im refering to both takeoffs, land and hand my plane dosent work in both situation i gonna test it with new screw adjustment and see whats happend, please man, tell me about that forum you say about Swift owners, about elevators, manual says that only power is need it to take it up, you think i need to make more adjustment to elevator? GRACIAS POR TU AYUDA, chevrolet2000@hotmail.com
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Old 03-09-2007, 05:20 PM
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Default RE: Aerobird Swift problems.

Hiya! Also make sure both wings are tight, if they're not put packing under wing root to lift the front of wing and make them tight fit. If you take wings out completely be careful, the wires that go into the fusiladge can pop back in and its a pain to fish for them. The sift sigt is under "electric planes" then "back yard park flyers" then "official swift thread". Lots of info on there. Have a good flight!!
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Old 03-12-2007, 09:52 PM
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Default RE: Aerobird Swift problems.


ORIGINAL: tam popo

Hiya! You are right, the 2 screws at back need adjusting. Tighten the one at the front and loosen the one at the back - this slants the rear fins to give more elevator up force. Also you could adjust the metal srews holding the control horns. On the swift you do need alot of elevator up to get lift, more than on most planes (don't know why). Are you launching by hand or off the ground. The tips I've given are mainly for off the ground take-offs.
I don't agree with this statement. I found the swift to be very responseive to elevator if it is balanced right and adjusted properly.


Ranametalera

What is your flying experience. I don't see and indication that you have any experience at all. If so, this is not a plane I would recommend for a first time flyer who has no help.

What were the wind conditions? Calm? Windy? Did you launch the plane going into the wind? You must launch into the wind.

Were you hand launching the plane or rising off the ground? Seems you tried both.

Surface adjustments. With the trims centered you should have the elevators even with the tail surfaces and the ailerons centered on the wind.

I found that there is a pretty wide range of locaitons you can put the battery. I foudn if you placed it all the way forward with the single cell facing back, the plane did not climb well. If you put it all the way back with the single cell facing forward it climbs much better. I actually liked it best with the single cell facing back and sitting into the electroncis section giving me the most rearward CG I could get.

When you hand throw, you must give it a FIRM FLAT throw at full throttle. Not up! Never up! It should fly straight out from your hand. You should not need to give it any up to maintain flat flight. If you do have to give it some up only apply enough to get it flying level and let it build up speed. Once the plane is flying well then you can pull some up elevator to start to climb.

I hope you find this helpful.

Six Keys to Success
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18

Throwing up will make you sick - read from the first post
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_32...tm.htm#3708346
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Old 03-13-2007, 06:54 AM
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Default RE: Aerobird Swift problems.

Greetings again. I mentioned the elevator up being needed. I proberbly took it for granted that our mexican colleague had set as per manual, elevator will probably need to be at max to get airborne off ground depending on wind conditions (as you mentioned - at neutral normally.). True there isn't a lot can be done for CoG but i use what you mentioned - battery far back. Packing under leading edge (if it can be done) can help maximise lift (some wings can be a slight loose fit anyway). Hope this clears up any confusion on my link. Thanks!!
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Old 03-16-2007, 01:11 PM
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Default RE: Aerobird Swift problems.

Ed,

Thanks so much for your suggestions on battery placement and launch advice.

On close examination of my Swift I don't see how adjusting the two yellow screws that secure the rear wheel and V-wing assembly to the shaft is a good idea. It appears the primary function of the two screws is to secure the rear wheel and the V-wing to the shaft. I loosened and tightened both but didn't observe any incremental tilt movement of the V-wing. It appears that you'd need to insert a spacer between the shaft and V-wing assembly to precisely adjust the rear wing tilt.

However, in that HZ offers this launch advice would you say that as a general rule would you loosen the rear or front screw if one were going to insert a spacer to improve climb. Or as I suspect HZs advice is misleading and of little practical advantage.
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Old 03-16-2007, 04:16 PM
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Default RE: Aerobird Swift problems.

Hello.I followed the manual to the letter and adjusted screws as recommended but did not detect any difference in climb rate or attitude. I tried a smaller lighter battery from one of my other planes (only 600MaH) and there was a definite earlier lifting of swift - but flight time only 4 minutes! Have tried different props but stock is best - especially if you break them as often as I do. Tried other props off zagi and ME262 but they won't even move swift along floor! Good flights!
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Old 03-16-2007, 05:01 PM
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Default RE: Aerobird Swift problems.

OK, you got me scratching my head.???

How can you "break them as often as you do" with a rear prop? Are you landing on wheels and flipping plane as Ed mentions? Out of curosity would you mind telling me how many times you have crashed for every flight (flight to crash ratio)?

Have a great weekend and Happy Trails
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Old 03-16-2007, 06:50 PM
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Default RE: Aerobird Swift problems.

Hiya! Retirement forces me to go out in all weathers. last week I did 15 flights (1 crash on landing, very gusty) with 1 prop breakage. Week previously 10 flights, 3 bad landings (slight fixable damage), 1 prop break. Not too bad. It all depends on whether I want to risk it or not - my day revolves around weather watching. Always ready to go, gear in car and spare planes just in case. There are very cheap "bendy" props but don't provide same push,but they don't break. Oh, well, working this w/end but next week planned for intensive testing of Zagi (swift ready incase). Byeee!
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Old 04-03-2007, 06:59 PM
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Default RE: Aerobird Swift problems.

The Challenger is a breeze to hand launch compared to the Swift. I've even went so far as to adjust each aileron slightly upward(like elevators) for successful hand launching of my Swift.

Supposedly the Swift is replacing the Xtreme and that's where the problem begins for me. I didn't purchase the Swift so that I could perform the kind of sharp F-14 maneuvers done by Maverick in Top Gun. I wanted a colorful/cool looking glidder that was an aileron trainer. I wouldn't buy an aileron V-tail showbird to hone my "need for speed" with aerobatics and combat elusiveness. I'd buy a Stryker 27C.

For my tastes the aileron surface area on the Swift could be reduced in half. So, I'm going to start reducing the surface area of the ailerons and see what gives. Realizing I'm also reducing some lift so will adjust ailerons and elevator to compensate. I haven't decided yet whether I will begin reducing the surface area by putting holes in the ailerons or shortening their length or probably both. Even with half the aileron surface area the Swift will still be swift enough to elude any Challenger.

Will let you know if I find a happy medium in the kind of glidder/aileron plane I fancy. Of the inexpensive aileron choices on the market I really like the color scheme and looks of the Swift. It's beautiful! If I wanted a plane that was "swift" and "xtreme" I'd buy a Stryker 27C
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Old 04-03-2007, 07:08 PM
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Default RE: Aerobird Swift problems.


ORIGINAL: Swift427

The Challenger is a breeze to hand launch compared to the Swift. I've even went so far as to adjust each aileron slightly upward(like elevators) for successful hand launching of my Swift.

\
What you have done is created spoilerons. These are used to KILL the lift of the wing so a plane will land more quickly. I use them on may sailplanes to assit with landing.

Retrim them to neutral if you want the plane to fly properly.


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Old 04-03-2007, 07:11 PM
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Default RE: Aerobird Swift problems.

ORIGINAL: Swift427

The Challenger is a breeze to hand launch compared to the Swift. I've even went so far as to adjust each aileron slightly upward(like elevators) for successful hand launching of my Swift.
What you have done is created spoilerons. These are used to KILL the lift of the wing so a plane will land more quickly. I use them on may sailplanes to assit with landing.

Retrim them to neutral if you want the plane to fly properly.


ORIGINAL: Swift427

Supposedly the Swift is replacing the Xtreme and that's where the problem begins for me. I didn't purchase the Swift so that I could perform the kind of sharp F-14 maneuvers done by Maverick in Top Gun. I wanted a colorful/cool looking glidder that was an aileron trainer.
I think you bought the wrong plane
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Old 04-03-2007, 08:00 PM
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Default RE: Aerobird Swift problems.

The Super Cub doesn't cost that much more, but doesn't come with ailerons. The Swift is definitely a beauty. The problem for me is that the company made the Swift more xtreme then necessary for my tastes, but it wasn't designed to be marketed to old-timers like myself. Any way, my fancy is for a glidder with ailerons as I don't have the "need for speed" for combat flying and the thrill of registering a kill. Where else can you buy a beautiful lookin glidder for $135 with addons like paratrooper drop module, sonic combat module and night light module?

I wanted a cool looking inexpensive glidder with ailerons and for the money I would buy it again even knowing its problems with motor mount, wing connectors and wing spar fuselage damage.

I don't like the looks of the toyish BeginAir aileron plane plus it isn't available in area hobby shops. I wouldn't buy a plane unless I could first see it up close and touch it. I don't mean to "spoil" your enthusiasm for the response of the Swift ailerons, but each to their own.
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Old 04-03-2007, 08:54 PM
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Default RE: Aerobird Swift problems.

What you described is an Easy Glider Electric. Low cost aileron glider made of Elapor foam. Stock Speed 400 is adequate to take it up to soaring height for thermalling, or to take it out to the slope lift. If you want spirited performance, go for the brushless upgrade.

Paint it up nice it it looks great! Mine has a sort of navy look.

You can set up a drop module with a servo. No combat module but it is tough enough to take a hit.

Based on what you said, this is what you want, or tell us more.
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Old 04-03-2007, 09:01 PM
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Default RE: Aerobird Swift problems.

Actually, don't you think the majority that bought Swift bought the wrong airplane?
Why try to make a glidder fly like an F-14? But that's the marketing game they play to satisfy the hunger.

Would anyone who already has a Stryker buy a Swift unless they have extra money that's burning a hole in their pants? Even Ed questions the Swift as a suitable aileron trainer. One way that translates to me is that the ailerons have more surface area than necessary for an aileron trainer. Take some of the aileron surface area and put it back into the permanent wing surface area to maintain lift while reducing the present aileron surface by half.

The Challenger offers a lot of flying fun for the money. A person that might justify a Swift is someone who has a hot shot buddy with a Challenger who can run circles around everybody else registering a million hits with his combat module on his Challenger. So to show him up, the less skilled buddy buys a Swift and is able to elude the Challenger while getting in a few Swift hits of his own on his buddies elusive Challenger. The problem is that the less skilled buddy with the Swift has more crashes.

Another scenario is that both buddies have Challengers, but have the need for more speed and action. Why would they buy another glidder wing plane with ailerons that is more prone to crashes when they could buy a 4-Channel Stryker and not have to be buying as many Swift replacement parts?
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Old 04-04-2007, 03:57 AM
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Default RE: Aerobird Swift problems.

Long time sice I was on this thread but here's an update. Taken off u/carriage as Mr Aeagir mentioned some time ago - I don't do ROG anymore, cos I found a grass slope thats almost ideal. Its near wot we call a pigeon coop or "Doocket" so have to be wary of annoyed pigeon fanciers,no problems yet. Flying well but the odd crash has resulted in fixable damage to wings and tail. The elevators were extended by adding broken elevators with tape to give twice the area. Its OK, climb rate is better but very sensitive to control stick movements. Might add LiPos and looking into this. Can I use stock esc or not. Seem to remember one member gave programming advice on H/zone Spitfire (page 9 in manual, earlier in this thread) which applies to Swift as well. I think this is also applicable to F27b Stryker which is sold stock with 8.4V Nim with option to use 9.6V Nim OR 11.2v 2100Mah LiPos. Doing more research into this and let the thread know later. Swift was my first plane (recommended by LHS), found it a struggle at first but that was down to me. Then Mr Zagi showed up, brushed replaced with B/less and use of LiPo if needed (but not always). Now Stryker F27b in Hangar, stock now but going LiPo or b/less soon. The reason I mentioned the other planes is background info - but I still love the Swift for all the reasons you mentioned. Chuck it in car "just in case, darling" it takes all the abuse I can throw at it and still flys, spares are cheap. Sorry this was so long but I'm now a full time flyer, no p/t job, now back fully retired. Eat your heart out And a big hello to you oh venerable sage Mr Aeagir
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Old 04-04-2007, 04:19 AM
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Default RE: Aerobird Swift problems.

ORIGINAL: Swift427

Actually, don't you think the majority that bought Swift bought the wrong airplane?
Why try to make a glidder fly like an F-14? But that's the marketing game they play to satisfy the hunger.

I don't consider the Swift a glider at all. Definately not its primary design. It is made to be an aerobatic plane, within the confines of its power envelope. The fact that you can thermal it does not make it a glider design. Most planes can be thermaled if the lift is strong enough, especially if the wing loading is under 15 oz/sq ft.
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Old 04-04-2007, 11:43 AM
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Default RE: Aerobird Swift problems.

I would agree that the Swift is not a sailplane, but it can rightly serve the purpose of a motorized glider just as well or better than it can as an aerobatic plane. Have you ever seen a full scale aerobatic plane at Oshkosh that has a similar glider wing design as found on the Swift? Have you ever seen an aerobatic plane at Oshkosh that has a V-tail?

The Swift uses a glider wing design that is marketed as an aerobatic plane to appeal/satisfy the "zip-a-dee-do-da" need for zip, but it really isn't a realistic replica of a true aerobatic plane. Go to [link]http://www.seeds2lrn.com/Jan00.html[/link] where its obvious the wing design of the Swift is for adding dihedral for gliding. When I turn off the motor on my Swift and ride thermals it becomes a glider.

Go to [link]http://www.members.aol.com/genewsmith[/link] and you will see a powered plane called the "Electrick Glider" with basically the same wing design as the Swift.

Go to [link]http://www.nasaexplores.com/show_58_student_st.php?id=021230154148[/link] to see the illustration of the plane with the ailerons extending only half the length of the wing. That is now how my Swift looks except the ailerons are closer to the fuselage. The remainder of what once was the aileron is now a very stationary part of the glider wing. The Swift is now a motorized glider with "trainer" ailerons.

I repaired the two broken servo connector wires, strengthened the fuselage wing insert sockets, and designed it so that the wings are under some tension so as to stay in the sockets and not come apart so far or as easily in case of a crash. My Swift can function as a beautiful motorized glider with trainer ailerons that also has some aerobatic maneuvering ability. The winds are gusting today 15 to 20. Tomorrow's forecast favors testing out my zippy motorized "swift glider."
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Old 04-04-2007, 01:12 PM
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Default RE: Aerobird Swift problems.

Here is another link that supports my contention that the Swift's V-tail and wing design lends itself more to that of a motorized glider and less to that of an aerobatic plane. [link]http://www.charlesriverrc.org/articles/terminatorhlg/terminatorhlg.htm[/link]
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Old 04-04-2007, 02:01 PM
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Default RE: Aerobird Swift problems.

tam popo wrote, "The elevators were extended by adding broken elevators with tape to give twice the area."

He is not alone in what seems to be a problem with the Swift. From my experience hand launching the Challenger is a breeze compared to hand launching the Swift. I built-in some additional lift with that portion of the aileron(50%) that is now a permanent part of the main wing. I ran a strip of 2" celephane tape between the former aileron section and the main wing on both underside and topside with opposing force. It is fixed very, very tight/firm in place as if it were welded to the main wing. Yet it has some flex if enough force is applied, but returns to its intended position. This new section is fixed slightly upward for some additional lauching lift. I made sure that each newly attached wing section has the same degree of upward lift on both the left and right side.

Now I won't need to tinker around with the V-tail screws, V-tail shim spacers, or increasing the surface area of the elevator/rudder. Now I can always trim the ailerons and elevator/rudder as should be once the proper lift angle is determined for the newly fixed wing section that was formerly 50% of the aileron.
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Old 04-04-2007, 03:50 PM
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Default RE: Aerobird Swift problems.

And I thought it was just me that had the problem of finding lift like other planes I have owned!! That is exactly the same fixing method I used on my elevators. getting LiPo this week for F27b but will re-program swift to accept. I love the swift but its the difference between Roseane Barr and Jen Lopez - both are beautiful women in their own way but I prefer J-Lo (don't know why though!!).[8D]
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Old 04-05-2007, 11:46 AM
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Default RE: Aerobird Swift problems.

Putting ailerons on a motorized glider does not turn it into an aerobatic flying machine. Don't think you'll be seeing any fancy aerobatics at Oshkosh by a plane with a V-tail and a glider wing design

The delicate structural integrity(motor mount, wing design, weak wing fuselage sockets, V-tail) of the Swift motorized glider is reason enough not to purchase the Swift as an aileron plane for aerobatic flying. The Swift is a motorized glider with ailerons and does not incorporate the best design solution for use as an aileron trainer. But with some aileron modification the Swift becomes a suitable aileron trainer. "Without deviation progress is not possible" - Frank Zappa

If you want to learn aerobatic flying then buy a plane that looks more like this--
[link]http://www.bvmprops.com/Props/vess_propellors.html[/link]

If you want even more of an aerobatic challenge step into the mind and shoes of Patrizio Bronzi and build yourself a Hummingbird DNA(double-helix) with statorons--[link]http://www.esotec.co.nz/hb/HTML/RC_Models_F.html[/link]
[link]http://www.esotec.co.nz/hb/HTML/Wespe_F.html[/link]
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Old 04-05-2007, 12:29 PM
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Default RE: Aerobird Swift problems.

ORIGINAL: tam popo

I love the swift but its the difference between Roseane Barr and Jen Lopez - both are beautiful women in their own way but I prefer J-Lo (don't know why though!!).[8D]
Have you considered that the Swift may not come with the best prop for getting this motorized aileron glider up, up and away?

The Challenger has a prop design that combines the best of a "climb" prop and a "cruise" prop for this motorized glider. Have you ever compared the Challenger prop to the Swift prop? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the Challenger prop should provide some extra oommph for getting up, up and away compared to the Swift prop. The size and configuration of the Challenger prop offers a better "climb" and "cruise" design then that on the Swift. Do your propulsive airscrew homework.

Swift's motor and battery power are such that a Challenger prop is more suitable for hand launching the Swift then the prop that comes on the Swift. Try launching the Challenger with its prop and then try launching it with the Swift prop. Bingo!

The irony is that at full speed the Challenger prop most likely requires as much or more torque then the Swift prop and yet the Challenger uses a smaller motor and battery then the Swift. The folks at HobbyZone outfitted the Swift with a prop as if the Swift were a zippy aerobatic plane.

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Old 04-05-2007, 12:39 PM
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Default RE: Aerobird Swift problems.

I don't consider the Swift a glider at all. Definately not its primary design. It is made to be an aerobatic plane, within the confines of its power envelope.
Is Ed in denial? [8D] He bought the wrong plane for aerobatic flying.
"within the confines of its power envelope" --You're a HobbyZone team player

Possibly the best beginner aerobatic model plane for the money is the Begin-Air. It is a much more realistic trainer for learning aerobatic maneuvers with its 2-stick, 4-channel Tx. BeginAir has a main wing, ailerons, rudder and elevator that is more representative of that found on a real aerobatic flying machine.
[link]http://www.parkflyers.com/html/begin-air.html[/link]
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