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BEST RTF 4C Aileron Trainer - "BUSY BEE"

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Old 04-12-2007, 04:02 PM
  #1  
Swift427
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Default BEST RTF 4C Aileron Trainer - "BUSY BEE"

Molded bead foam construction - Brushless Motor
High torque Outrunner powers an 8x6 pusher prop
2 cell 7.4v 1300mAh LiPoly - Nosewheel is steerable
Stable Flyer - Gentle Stall - Good Takeoff and Landing
Wingspan 44 1/4" - Length 42 3/4" - Flying weight 23 oz.

[link]http://www.hobby-lobby.com/busybee.htm[/link]
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Old 04-12-2007, 05:09 PM
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Default RE: BEST RTF 4C Aileron Trainer - "BUSY BEE"

Funny. I just received my Hobby-Lobby catalogue today and this plane caught my eye. Nice curb appeal and looks like it is stable enough to do a few tricks. I was concerned about the wheel size but looks like there is plenty of room to put larger wheels on if required..
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Old 04-12-2007, 08:40 PM
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Default RE: BEST RTF 4C Aileron Trainer - "BUSY BEE"

After flying the Aerobird Swift (has ailerons) and discovering its aerodynamic faults I wouldn't recommend it as an aileron trainer. The designers of the Busy Bee look like they hit a home run with this cool looking brushless 4C RTF pusher priced under $200.
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Old 04-29-2007, 12:00 PM
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egens
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Default RE: BEST RTF 4C Aileron Trainer - "BUSY BEE"

This is something I am definitely going to get. I love hobby-lobby products. The only thing is that I DO NOT want that controller. I mean iI want to use my own. They should sell ARF of this plane.
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Old 05-03-2007, 07:42 AM
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Default RE: BEST RTF 4C Aileron Trainer - "BUSY BEE"

I got my Busy Bee a few weeks ago. I was told by the manufacturer that Hobby-Lobby will only be distributing the ARF version at this time. The TX/RX came on CH 19. The plane has some minor issues:

1. My Busy Bee is very nose heavy and thus far I have not been able to properly trim the plane nor take off from the ground (I fly out off a grass field/runway). I need to re-balance the plane and maybe move things around a bit.

2. The plane is very underpowered with the current 2 cell Lipo + 15A ESC + the TowerPro 2408-21T-3A brushless outrunner + the stock prop.

3. The stock prop is not a full 8x6 propeller. It seems that the tips have been trimmend. Replacing the prop with a true 8x6 slow flyer prop will instantly give you more thrust and better stability in the air.

4. The wiring: ESC + extension + battery is a combo of different gauges - from 16gauge to servo wires to 20 gauge. I ended up replacing the battery connectors with Dean connectors, and I also replaced the extension with 18 gauge wires. This also instantly contributed to an increase in power.

5. I still haven't been able to obtain the technical specs of the ESC in order to see if it supports a 3 cell LiPo. I did run a small test with a 3 cell LiPo. The timing was off and the motor hesitated to start. With a liltle help with my finger (not recommended) or after a few seconds the prop spun. At full throttle it had the power I was looking for. From the motor specs, I know the brushless supports 3 cell lipos. Therefore, I will replace the ESC and fly the plane with the 3 cell LiPo batteries moving forward. As I am doing these improvements I will reallocate the components to properly balance the plane around the CG.

6. I also replaced the receiver. This is not so critical. However, I like to have all my planes on the same gear - Easier for maintenance

I'll report back after I had a chance to make the ESC change and test the plane. With the upgrades in place I will feel more comfortable doing the aerobatics.

Tom
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Old 05-04-2007, 09:45 PM
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Default RE: BEST RTF 4C Aileron Trainer - "BUSY BEE"

So far so good! Now what's left is the test flight. My upgrade is complete and here is what I did.

As I mentioned in a previous post, the wiring between the ESC and the battery was a mix of wire gauges - From 16 to 24 to 20 (see picture 1). I replaced the wire with an 18 gauge to ensure that there was only a small difference in gauge.

I was able to find the specifications for the brushless motor (see picture 2). It was clear that it could support a 3 cell LiPo battery and 11.1v. According to the Busy Bee’s specifications, the original ESC was rated to 15A. I went ahead and purchased a Jeti 18A.

Before soldering and connecting everything, I decided to place the components in different locations in the fuselage to see if I could balance the plane. For the CG/balance point I opted to go with the 27.5% mark. The wing measured 22 cm, hence the 27.5% mark was right at 6 cm from the leading edge.

I placed the receiver right underneath the wing towards the front of the bay and wedged the ESC in the opening that leads to the belly of the fuselage. I kept the battery in the battery bay. Once I placed the plane on the CG machine, the surprise...

The plane isn’t really nose heavy, it is tail heavy. This would explain the behavior I observed during my initial flights. Being tail heavy and underpowered, the plane simply sinks towards the ground. As the plane sinks, the natural reaction is to give it up elevator in order to make it climb. I moved the ESC and receiver back to their original bay pushing as much forward as possible. The plane continued to be tail heavy.

I decided then to install both the receiver and ESC in the middle bay. I cut two U-shaped blocks of Styrofoam and wedged/secured them towards the front and the back in the receiver bay. The channel created from the U-shape, allows the control rods to move freely. I secured the receiver with Velcro on the forward block. (see picture 3)

Now it was time to solder the connectors on the ESC leads and motor extension cables. Once the connectors were in place, I fired up the motor. What a difference... The motor kick right in and the amount of thrust was very impressive (see picture 4 & 5).

Even though, the propeller is orange, what matters is the thrust. Not only is the shape different (see picture 6), the standard 8x6 slow flyer prop weighs 2g less than the original prop that came with the plane. The weights are 6g and 4g correspondingly. The orange prop produces more thrust, and it seems that the motor also likes it much better. It produces less vibration and is more quite.

After I secured all parts and tucked all wires away, I proceeded to balance the plane considering the CG point at 6 cm from the leading edge (see picture 7). In the end, I added a ÂĽ oz lead piece and secured it in the battery bay. (see picture 8). The did the job and the plane is now fully balanced (see picture 9).

I forgot to mention, the AUW ended up at 683g (24 oz). That is only 20g (3/4 oz) more than I had originally before the upgrade. Also for battery, I am now using a Tower Power 3 cell 11.1v 1320mAH LiPo. It fits nicely in the battery bay.

It is too windy today for a test flight so it will have t wait until tomorrow.


To be continued…
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Old 05-05-2007, 08:33 AM
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Default RE: BEST RTF 4C Aileron Trainer - "BUSY BEE"

So inreality its far from the best RTF trainer, what is the point in buying RTF if you have to change all the electronics out to get something half decent? just another reason why RTF ends up being a waste of money in the end.
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Old 05-05-2007, 10:30 AM
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Default RE: BEST RTF 4C Aileron Trainer - "BUSY BEE"

It would be much better if it is sold as an ARF or Kit version where you can choose your electronic gear.
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Old 05-05-2007, 10:31 AM
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Default RE: BEST RTF 4C Aileron Trainer - "BUSY BEE"

The smiley expresses my joy. I had a couple of hours this morning before the wind picked up. After all my pre-flight check I decided to do a hand launch.

The Bee took off with no problems and had a beautiful climb rate. I got the Bee up to about 400ft and circled the field to trim the plane. I noticed that it was slightly nose heavy. Left and right turns were great. I used the rudder for smooth turns. It is nice to see how the plane reverts back to a neutral attitude. Ailerons are great for very tight turns and rolls. [X(]

I cut the engine and the Bee had no problems gliding. I even was able to catch a couple of thermals and maintain a powerless flight. I brought the Bee down and maintained a very slow flight on my approach and made a beautiful landing. [8D]

Before installing my last battery pack, I adjusted the control horn on the elevator to give it just a little up elevator. I connected the battery, and went for a ground take-off. I located a freshly cut area in the field and faced the Bee into the wind. I gave it full throttle and brought the plane into motion. After about 15 ft the Bee was airborne.

The adjustment made to the elevator worked out grade. Once again I circled the field several times and trimmed the plane. With the throttle at about ÂĽ, the Bee remained very steady which will be great for aerial video. I added power and climbed to about 500ft with no problem.

Winds were picking up a little. I cut the engine and spend a good 4-5 minutes gliding. Now it was time to stretch the envelope a little and try some mild aerobatics. I started of with a loop. I add full power, went into a little dive and pulled the stick back. The Bee did a very nice loop. Tomorrow I will spend more time testing the plane with more aggressive maneuvers. Once again I brought the plane in for a landing and touched down and stopped the Bee about 3 ft away from me.

In all, the changes made were great and really made a major impact. The Bee flies great now and I am very pleased. The only other improvement I will make is to strengthen the area where the control horns are connected to the ailerons. It is currently a weak area and some fiberglass and/or plywood will help.

I look forward to mounting my 5-in-1 eDVRs and get some aerial videos tomorrow.
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Old 05-06-2007, 07:49 AM
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Default RE: BEST RTF 4C Aileron Trainer - "BUSY BEE"

Richard from Riccs got back to me and mentioned that the Busy Bee ships with a Tower Pro ESC.

I did some research and found the we are talking about the TowerPro 12A ESC. The manual says that you can force the ESC to only select the 2 cell LiPos. This confirms Richard's comment that the Busy Bee is limited to 2 cell LiPo batteries. (No wonder mine wouldn't run with a 3 cell LiPo).

Upon inspection of my ESC, the heat shrink makes it difficult to remove the jumper. It is also important to point out that the max current on the ESC is 15A. As I mentioned on a previous post, I opted to replace the ESC with an 18A ESC.

Here is the picture and the manual for the TowerPro 12A ESC.
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Old 06-11-2007, 09:38 AM
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Default RE: BEST RTF 4C Aileron Trainer - "BUSY BEE"

Hi all! A friend of mine has the Busy Bee and we've been very impressed with it. Initially did seem under powered but on closer inspection found that he'd put the prop on the wrong way round! Swapped it over and it zooms away! Instructions are pretty naff but apart from that I'd say it makes a good first 4 channel kit.
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Old 10-02-2007, 03:45 AM
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Default RE: BEST RTF 4C Aileron Trainer - "BUSY BEE"

Got a busy bee last week and assembled it without difficulty. However when checking flying surfaces noted that the fin was not vertical nor was the stab horizontal. Removed the tail assembly and took off the control horns from the elevator so that the horizontal stab could lie flat on the workbench. Then I epoxied the fin into the slot and aligned with a set square. I then trued up the fuselage mounting surface for the horisontal stab and when all was screwed together looked great.

Out at the flying field however the grass was too long for a ground take off so full throttle and a hand launch saw the plane flutter about 10m and landed tail first even with full elevator. Check things out and decided the prop was on backwards, swapped it around and definitely more thrust now. I did not try the plane again as I was definitly getting some radio interference.

After reading through bostoms comments I bought an eflite 8x6 prop and replaced the prop and also fitted a Spektum Ar6000 receiver to take care of the radio glitching. Next day at the flying field all had been freshly mowed so I decided to try a ground take-off. With the new prop the plane wizzed over the freeshly mowed grass like a bat out of hell but even with full elevator the plane would not take off. I reset the trims to allow for more up elevator and attempted a hand launch the plane headed ground wards fast but limped into the sky on full up elevator and full throttle. Once up at about 20m or so tried to acheive level flight but any reduction in elevator brought the nose down fast. I cut the throttle and attempted to land the plane. the plane staye din the air quite happily with no throttle and the reduced airspeed brought the plane down quite gently - to land on its nose and bend the nose gear and strip the gears on the rudder servo.

Definitely not a fly out of the box aircraft. I will buy some new servo's today and attempt raise the wing incidence by 6mm as suggested and try again. As I glued the tail I cannot drop the stab incidence.

Anyone have any other suggestions?
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Old 10-02-2007, 07:14 PM
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Default RE: BEST RTF 4C Aileron Trainer - "BUSY BEE"


ORIGINAL: BosTom

It would be much better if it is sold as an ARF or Kit version where you can choose your electronic gear.
So Tom , are you giving the Bee the nod over the WD4 as a better aileron trainer ?
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Old 10-02-2007, 09:35 PM
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Default RE: BEST RTF 4C Aileron Trainer - "BUSY BEE"

Well, I guess I forgot to post the passing of my Busy Bee here. It disintegrated upon impact after the wings folded together coming out of a roll. It was beyond repair.

The plane has major design flaws that Riccs acknowledged over on RG. On their last post they mentioned that they were going to work on improving the Busy Bee. You have to make major changes and adjustments to make it an enjoyable plane to fly. If they were to sell it as a kit instead of an RTF, then it may be a different story.

My brushless WingDragon 4 continues to be my plane of choice for a good aileron trainer. At this time I fly at altitudes greater than 2600 ft above the ground. It is an excellent glider. My flights last +30 min. It continues to be an excellent aerial video platform and it can do some serious aerobatics. To top it all off, last Saturday at our electric fun fly, I was flying in 18 mph winds gusting to +27 mph. (I had to take down my instant shade canopy, as I was afraid it would take off). The guys at the club could not believe what a brushless WingDragon 4 can do. I have to mention that I reinforced the wing.

Here is a little proof what my brushless Dragon can do.

http://media.putfile.com/WingDragon-...g-the-Envelope

Tom
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Old 12-15-2007, 03:21 AM
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Default RE: BEST RTF 4C Aileron Trainer - "BUSY BEE"

PHOTOS

http://www.pw-rc.com/images/p_pho/bu...Webs/index.htm

Movie

http://www.pw-rc.com/movie/busybee.wmv
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Old 07-24-2010, 02:22 PM
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Default RE: BEST RTF 4C Aileron Trainer -

I stumbled on Busy Bee forum and decided to buy one and found out no kits here in Georgia but i could by separate wing, fush, tail .
i purchased all electrical parts at same time. However, I need a manual or instructions (step to step) but cannot find one on forums.
Like where do ou install the rudder and elevator servo's. If there is an electronic cd or hard copy contact me.
Iike the fush is two parts , a left and right and do not want to glue them together and later find out I should have waited.

I have read several forum where the parties all have a kit....I don't have a kit having to make the landing gear, no front wheel steering.
no plastic parts and how do ou install the landing gear . Also , how much clearance is the prop and the fuch.

Can anyone help.

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