new-heli-pilot

I just ordered an E-starter, and am wondering if there are any specific mods that need to be made in order for it to be reliable. I have read that the battery can fal out in mid flight, so I am going to use velcro in order to secure it. I have also heard that the fuse needs to have more strength added to it, this was from an old thread that I read this, so does it still need done? If so how?

John

Time Pilot

If you are going to use the stock supplied battery hatch, make sure your battery packs will fit through it before attaching it to the plane....

Trial fit your battery packs into the battery bay before gluing the two halves of the fuse together. Easier to carve out the foam before the halves are glued.

I put packing tape on the leading edge of the wing just where the rubber bands touch to save the foam from being scored.

I also ran some packing tape on the bottom of the fuse from aft cabin to the front of the fins. This will help protect the tail from breaking when hitting the ground belly down.

Some have problems with their landing gear coming out. After inserting the metal gear into the plastic part, I glued a piece of wood in there to hold it. When it was dry, I drilled one or two small holes sideways (1/8 inch, maybe) through the plastic part perpendicular to the wooden piece I glued in earlier. I drilled a few smaller holes in the other 'fins' too. Poke some small holes around the edges of the hole (deep in the hole, not near the top) where the landing gear goes. Use a lot of epoxy, working the epoxy into all the holes you've created first, then dump a bunch in the hole. You should have to wipe away excess epoxy as it oozes out as you install your gear. Ensure the gear is securely held down as the glue hardens. I've 60 hours on my original Estarter and my landing gear is in there solid.

You will get some slop as the torque rods compress the foam in the ailerons. I enlarged the hole and glued small fuel tubing in there (used GWS glue). After the glue dries, it is easy to cut flush with the aileron surface. Take your time drilling out the hole using progressively larger bits spun with your fingers. The center hole of the tubing I have is the same ID as the OD of the torque rods. Take care to keep the hole centered where you want it, marking a light line on the aileron if necessary.

Stock hinges work fine. Poke 9 small holes in each side so the glue has something to bite through.

Hope that helps a bit.

new-heli-pilot

I'm sure it will help when the plane arrives. Right now it doen't make much sense, but probably will when I see the plane. What is a good kind of Epoxy, as in the kind that takes a while to set, or the quicker setting ones? Also, what could replace GWS glue, I am expecting the plane early this week, and hope to start building as soon as I get it, so ordering a special glue would delay that a day or two.

Thanks again,
John

ozrcboy

The GWS glue aint great but it works okay for jobs like joining the fuse halves together provided that you:

1. Use it sparingly
2. Let it sit there for a couple of minutes before you put the fuse halves together. Let that cure for a couple of hours.

What time pilot said about making sure that you know everything will fit inside before glueing the fuse halves together is a really good point.

I personally resist the "reinforcing" the fuse etc thing. My feeling is the plane needs to be strong enough to deal with air loads, landing, and the odd rough landing. Adding any reinforcing after that just makes her heavier, and crash harder IMHO - there is no such thing as an indestructible airplane - they just have too much energy in a crash.

BTW Time PIlot - great idea for the torque rods - wish I had done that on my GWS Zero which after 250 sorties is getting pretty sloppy in the ailerons...

Cheers,
Oz.

new-heli-pilot

Where could I get that GWs glue, cant find any at either myrcsupply.com, or towerhobbies. What else would work, I have guerilla glue, and super glue. Not sure if the superglue is foam safe though, gotta test it still.

ArrowNaughtic

both my Estarter kits came with a tube of GWS glue included. I just totally botched my second one......... painted it with foam eating paint, the rudder fell off last nite.........ouch! Where did you get your Estarter at? I need a new wing and tail set and it seems most people are out. let me know by PM if ya want to.......TY


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Of all the things I ever lost....................................... I miss my mind the most!

Time Pilot

My feelings too, which is why I only used on strip of regular packing tape underneath. Pretty light and if you don't want it there anymore, you can just pull it off.

Packing tape strengthens foam more than you'd think. Try it with a piece of foam laying around the house. Tape one side of if and you'll find it breaks easily one way, but not so easily the other. The way it is strengthens is the way you need strength added to the Estarter fuse.

GWS glue is great glue! Epoxy is very heavy. In the 60+ hours my Estarter has been in the air, never has a GWS glue joint failed. If you treat it like contact cement, letting it dry some before putting the parts together, it works fast. If you put the parts together while it's still wet, you have quite a bit of time to move the parts.

Use epoxy where the instructions tell you to and only use as much as you need--the exception the landing gear area which needs to be filled. The only thing I regret about my build is using too much epoxy in the tail. My surfaces didn't fit very well so I loaded them up with glue to make sure they'd hold. If I were to build another, I'd take some time cutting and sanding to get the best fit and then use polyurethane glue with the parts sprayed lightly with water to ensure I'd get a decent amount of foaming. The foam would fill the gaps and be lighter than the epoxy. You have to watch it though to wipe off the ooze regularly though, which is the only drawback.

Really, though, a bit of weight in one place isn't such a big deal. It only become a problem when you start adding too much weight in a lot of different places.

AJ1202

John you should also be aware the ES will come out tail heavy when the build is done, depending on your batt selection you may have to add a bit of weight in the nose area to get it to balance right.
The ES is a great little plane, I fly mine all the time, it has been through more crashes than I care to remember It has been through more mods than should be allowed But I finaly got it the way I like it now and it is my most dependable flyer

After 2 years I finaly broke the tail off in a botched landing, I took a small CF rod and cut a groove in the bottom of my fuse and imbedded it to reinforce the tail, no more weak point now

I agree with the glue part, use the GWS glue like contact cement and use the epox lightly, except on the LG, mine used to fall out when it landed, it would touch down and bounce a llittle and the gear would just pop out, this caused a bit of scaring to the wings and bottom of the fuse [:'(]

Good Luck with your new ES and have fun

patnchris

I must agree to resist weight gaining mods, no matter how slight the weight gain. While the wing is quite substantial and will support additional weight, strange things start happening as the plane gains weight. The need to fly faster to gain more lift, starts to add stresses to areas of the plane that would be perfectly fine, flying it at or below it's described weight. These additional stresses will eventually cause fatigue in the airframe. Anyone who says that foam doesn't fatigue, has never experienced a wing breaking in half in mid/ level flight.....With the E-Starter, weight is definately your enemy, and stronger is not better, if it means heavier.....JMHO...Pat

new-heli-pilot

Thanks for all the great replies.

Would a little bit of packing tape hurt? I just want a little bit on the leading edges of wings in case I flip it in the stones since a good number of landings will probably be in my driveway, or would the foam be just fine?

If I was planning to be landing in semi-long grass, or a wheat field that has been cutoff down to about 5 inches, would I need the LG off, or just take it in like normal and hope it doesnt flip?

What kind of epoxy works best? I noticed there is mainly 5 minute, 6 minute, 12 minute, 30 minute, and 45 minute, which one is better?


John

patnchris

For that kind of flying, just remove the landing gear. It won't do you any good, anyway. Put a layer of packing tape on the bottom of the fuse and the leading edge of the wing. You'll lose weight by omitting the gear and the tape will add minimal. I actually flew my E-Starter without the landing gear or the wingstruts and found that the loss of the weight and drag of these items acvtually made the plane fly better.....JMHO...Pat

new-heli-pilot

Thanks Pat, will the plane flip over easier landing on those surfaces without LG, or will it just skid in nicely with a good landing?

Thanks,
John

Just leaves the question about the epoxy.

ArrowNaughtic

Hey John, I am using 5 minute epoxy on my build and only mix small amounts at a time, It tends to gel after about 3 minutes so you gotta have all your stuff set up before you mix. Works well tho because you don't have to worry about holding something in place or letting things sit until the epoxy hardens.
I just finished painting mine and am going to reinstall the electronics now. I tore everything out thinking I was going to get another fuse and wings set, but everyone is out and its all on backorder. www.bphobbies.com has some wings and stuff still available but I doubt its going to last long. I ordered a new wing and fins set as well as new landing gear .......... I wonder if I am shooting my plane down before it flies by already ordering spare parts.........heh


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Of all the things I ever lost....................................... I miss my mind the most!

Time Pilot

The plane will flip in grass that long.

I normally use 30 minute epoxy or longer. Someone once told me that the longer the epoxy takes to set, the better of a glue joint you'll have.

new-heli-pilot

Ok, maybe I'll jsut get both then. Timepilot, I know it would flip in grass that long, the grass would only be about 3 inches, but would wheat stubble support the plane enough for it to skid in, or would it flip the plane as well?

Nitroaddict

I did some mods to mine - brushless power, 3s lipo, tricycle gear, fiberglass inside the tail section, clipped wings.

Here are some photos:

Time Pilot

It depends on how thick the wheat stubble is and how smooth the ground is underneath. Rough ground will flip the plane too. I was once a prairie boy, and haven't been in a field for a long, long time. Can you cut the stubble down in the landing area?

And another important mod as seen in Nitroaddict's pics: Putting down a wood tray under the elevator and rudder servos. I just put down 2 thin strips of wood across rather than making an entire tray and glued them in (I try to save weight where I can). You can screw the servos down then. I still use the double sided tape too--I don't want anything to come loose in flight. Had that happen once....

I don't do a tray for the ailerons. Wood strip as before and do a very tight fricton fit. Put tape around the case of the servo and glued them in with a touch of white glue on the SIDES of the case. I had to remove one once and it wasn't too bad cutting it out. Just stay close to the servo with a sharp knife and take your time cutting the servo loose and it will come out clean. You'll have more problems if you put glue on the bottom--no way get at that easily with a knife.

ArrowNaughtic

Just finished the build on my Estarter last nite. I made a bunch of major screwups and had to work backwards alot but am going to maiden it in about 20 minutes here. Also have the gf's Estarter fixed up and ready to go too. Hers is the purple one, I painted mine chrome........ Originally it was burgundy but I used non foam friendly paint and about ate the foam away. Had to spackle it and sand it down to closer to smooth then repainted it a shiny color........ Old eyes don't see as well as they used to.
also will be flying a few of the helis I have......TREX 450, HoneyBee King V2, and a Eflite Blade CX2. Weather is supposed to be beautiful all day today so want to make a day of it!


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Of all the things I ever lost....................................... I miss my mind the most!

new-heli-pilot

Nice looking planes Arrow, and Nitro. What kind of paint did you each use for yours? Dont want to make the same mistake Arrow did.

Nitro and Time Pilot, thanks for the advice, will definetly be re-reading this thread often when the plane finally shows

ArrowNaughtic

I ended up going to a crafts store in town and bought some Testors spray paint. they didn't have the copper color that i wanted so I went with the chrome.........
Paint at the hobby store.....5 bucks a can.at the craft store....3 bucks.....hmmmmmmmmm


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Of all the things I ever lost....................................... I miss my mind the most!

new-heli-pilot

Alright, thanks.

Sounds about right, but hey I'll prolly buy from LHS if I can, only one around and it's still 45 minutes away, wouldnt want them to go outta business.

Nitroaddict

heli - I used pactra racing finish - lexan car body paint. it will eat the foam if you lay it on too thick, but several light coats will work just fine.

new-heli-pilot

Thanks Nitro, at least now I have some ideas as to what to buy.

John