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"Quest for the First Bird" or "What Have I Gotten Myself Into?"

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"Quest for the First Bird" or "What Have I Gotten Myself Into?"

Old 01-04-2008, 01:33 PM
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ShutterAce
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Default "Quest for the First Bird" or "What Have I Gotten Myself Into?"

Hi All,

I've been lurking here and at other forums the last week or so reading everything I can regarding "easier to fly than most" electric planes. I'm not necessarily looking for recommendations for a specific aircraft as much as i am trying to understand why there seems to be a "one size fits all" answer. So really I just have a bunch of questions.Please feel free to chime in on any or all of them.

Thanks!

[ul][*] What is the true advantage of a Super Cub over say an Aerobird? The stories I have read about radio glitches with the Cub worry me. I have had more than enough experience with cheap radio issues with my Nitro cars than I care to discuss. I understand the SuperCub looks "real" but it's kinda like putting chrome valve covers on a Yugo isn't it? With all you guys & gals switching to 2.4ghz radios there are lots of cheap second hand FM setups available now. I'm thinking I could put together a setup with a nice used 6 channel FM unit for a little bit more money than the SuperCub. If not the Aerobird seems a better value than the Cub for the purpose. Hopefully that made sense.[X(][*] My second concern is ailerons. By far the advice I have seen is to wait for ailerons until you are ready to move onto your second plane. There are those out in the wilderness that dispute this but they are few and far between it seems. Anyway, I have lots of simulator time over many years with some glider time many many years ago. To me ailerons + elevator seem much more natural. That being the case is it still recommended to go "aileronless" at first? Can you get a trainer that has ailerons that you can disable until you feel ready for them? I don't have a problem dropping a few hundred dollars on a plane but I do have a problem having to do it twice in a month or two. [*] Is having "too much" power really a bad thing? I understand the want to have a docile acting plane that flies slow enough for me to learn to react correctly. That said I don't see any reason not to have a bit of "extra" power available to possibly get myself out of trouble.[*] Finally, are biplanes generally more stable than monoplanes? I want to think that is true but if it is then why are all the trainers I see monoplanes?
[/ul]

I've read so many opinions in the last few days that I am trying to weed out the real reasons that some of the recommendations were made. The "glitchie" radio stories worry me most of all, not because of the possibilites of destroying the plane, because it's a huge safety hazard to have an uncontrolled object falling from the sky at a high rate of speed. I'm a model rocketeer too so falling objects are a big deal to me.

Well, I'll stop there for now I guess.

Thanks again for your replies.

-Jim
Old 01-04-2008, 01:56 PM
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commpilot5
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Default RE: "Quest for the First Bird" or "What Have I Gotten Myself Into?"

I strongly suggest that first you join a flying club. They will teach you how to fly first of all. Second, get your self a sig Kadet Sr, ARF and put it together. third get your self a inexpensive raido from Hi-tech or JR. with 4 channels.
this is all you need. the Kadet Sr is a very good trainer and easy to fly. But reguardless what you by GET INTO A CLUB. AND GET SOME HELP.

If there are no clubs close, then start with the Aero Bird and learn the basics of flying raido contol.

The only thing I have against these planes (Aero-birds and etc.) is that the
raido that comes with them can be used only with that plane and nothing else.

But for the cost you can have a lot of fun learning on your on then jump into gas.

DON'T EVER JUMP INTO A GAS PLANE WITH OUT SOME HELP FIRST.
Old 01-04-2008, 07:28 PM
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AJ1202
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Default RE: "Quest for the First Bird" or "What Have I Gotten Myself Into?"

Even though there have been some issues with the super cub it is still a fairly reliable plane, next is it is easy to upgrade and being made of EPP foam can be a good plane for a long time, the super cub is now coming with standard type servo's as well, also you can easily add ailerons to it.
as to glitching making the plane go down, I will leave that one alone because there are so many reasons that could happen, even with the best equipment,, it happens from time to time

As to starting with or without ailerons, that realy depends on your coordination and abilty to react without panic, I flew for a while before I tryed a plane with ailerons and found them to be easier to fly, but there again I had the basics of flying down,,, I know many that went straight to ailerons and did well from the beginning

Having more power than you need is actually not a bad idea, however in the beginning it is easy to get ahead of yourself, by this I mean not being used to leading your flight because you are on the edge of your abilities, throttle control and orientation are the hardest things to learn IMO

Bipes are not easier nor do they nessasarily fly better, there are some bipes that fly more stable than other single wing planes but as a rule bipes have more drag, thus more thrust is needed and more speed, also a lot of the bipes are quicker to stall at slow speeds and quicker to roll over on take off

I don't discount the idea of having someone help you learn but like so many I was one that didn't have that opertunity. If you can find a club and choose to join or have a freind that flys that is willing to help then I would say to take advantage of it.

Now this is just my opinion, based soley on my experiences so far

I hope this helped a little,,,, Oh and most of all, have fun be safe,,,,,,,,,,,,, and

Welcome to the wonderfull world of Flying
Old 01-04-2008, 09:28 PM
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Default RE: "Quest for the First Bird" or "What Have I Gotten Myself Into?"

ORIGINAL: commpilot5

The only thing I have against these planes (Aero-birds and etc.) is that the
raido that comes with them can be used only with that plane and nothing else.

Mike,

That's a huge part of my concerns. if I can't rip it out and put it in another airframe I'm just flat not interested. I'd rather spend $50.00 on a used 6 channel than buy something proprietary.

And don't worry I have no interest in Nitro.

AJ,

Your explanation regarding the bipes makes total sense as does the rest of your post. I never thought about more drag necessitating more speed. Speed seems to be the enemy at the moment.

Thanks to both of you!
Old 01-04-2008, 11:36 PM
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Default RE: "Quest for the First Bird" or "What Have I Gotten Myself Into?"

Hi Jim

Firstlly lets loook at why soo many people recommend a particular plane or model, the reason is experience, they have like myself and many others - bought a model, built it and than destory it all within 3 days. We then ask why and 9 times out of 10 it what the guy at the LHS said was a trainer or we read the box or website of the manufacturer and believed everything on the front cover![>:]

For radio's well are you sure you will like flying model planes, I can tell you on day 3....the "destoryed' part of learning, I drove away from the field thinking you can stick this model plane flying right up your exhust pipe!![>:] But a few days later calmed down and ordered a new fuse and motor and..........

Today I have 3 models and yes I still have the rebuilt 16 plane (that now make times its crashed)(Cessna 182) I learn to fly without ailerons because trainers do not have them, again it's hard enough learning to fly with 3 channels and look at it like this you will be able to see how a plane behaves when flying with just rudder and later with more experience move on the 4 channel and ailerons.

The speed question... yes alot of people say faster is better and the reason they say this is because of height they fly is to close to the ground and stall the plane and in she goes, when learning, fly up high if something go wrong you have time to do something about it and when something goes wrong switch off the motor I learnt the hard way the faster the plane is travelling when something goes wrong the harder you hit the ground and the more damage done.

I like to fly powered gliders and now fly every wednesday with a mate I don't have major crashes anymore just the odd hairy moment.

Cheers Lawrence

PS Oh wind is your greatest enemy[]
Old 01-06-2008, 05:08 PM
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Default RE: "Quest for the First Bird" or "What Have I Gotten Myself Into?"

Hi Jim,

Welcome to RC flying.

Addressing in order...

I can't speculate why supercub is better than aerobird as I haven't seen the aerobird. However, you are on to something - people tend to recommend the plane they had success with (sometimes to the exclusion of all others). Another potential one to add to your list is a multiplex easystar - this comes in ARF form so as you say you could buy a cheap radio and put your own avionics in it. Even still I imagine you will end up paying more than if you bought the RTF packages. I've flown supercub stock - easy to fly. I've flown easystar stock - easy to fly. I've flown the electrafun xp stock (a trainer in Australia that I'm not sure you folks get) - easy to fly. Lots of good trainers out there.

AJ1202 is spot on about the ailerons. It is really about recovery. Recovering an aileron plane requires two inputs - roll to wings level - elevator up. Recovering in RET tends to be just pull up. However, with practice on a simulator first I've seen a few beginners go straight to ailerons without any great problems.

Having too much power is a bad thing for a couple of reasons - 1) many beginners aren't thinking far enough ahead of the plane, like AJ said. The second is that with enough power beginners learn how to play a video game, not fly. Part of learning to fly is learning how to feel the aircraft, and how she behaves near stall, what happens when you nose up, roll and give full elevator. They also think, ironically, that power is a substitute for planning (gee, I could have cleared that tree if only I had enough power to climb over it) - funny eh, given that you need planning to manage power?

Biplanes AJ pretty comprehensively answered. Just one more thing - the bi wing setup makes them more breakable - that's another reason why genuine trainers aren't biplanes.

With respect to glitches and safety - good for you to be thinking about it. While you are learning you want your flying field to be basically deserted anyway. Glithces normally don't knock your aircraft out of the sky, but what it does is changes it's orientation and heading to one that is not easily recovered.

Just to stress the use of a simulator - even FMS will get you miles ahead for your first flight (provided you practice with either your real TX, or something that has the same stick layout).

Cheers,
oz.
Old 01-06-2008, 07:15 PM
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Default RE: "Quest for the First Bird" or "What Have I Gotten Myself Into?"

Thanks Lawrence and oz. I really appreciate the feedback everyone. There is much to consider and I tend to over analyze things. I have made some decisions though.

I'm really leaning toward a Mountain Models Magpie with both wings, I don't think I can beat it for $60.00. It's two planes for the price of one in my book. As far as the radio goes I'm going to be looking for an inexpensive used system. I think I can get everything needed for @ $150.00 which is comparable to an RTF trainer. I actually have a GWS P-38 on the way(Don't worry I'm not flying it) which I can rob a power plant from. A radio, ESC, battery, and charger should get me going. I actually have an old car charger around here somewhere from my Tamiya days. Maybe I can use it for this.

That's the plan at the moment. Any comments?

Thanks!
-Jim

Old 01-07-2008, 05:34 AM
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Default RE: "Quest for the First Bird" or "What Have I Gotten Myself Into?"

Excellent choice on your plane, the MM Magpie is a fantastic flying plane. It is very stable
Good Luck and Good flying
Old 01-08-2008, 12:17 PM
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Default RE: "Quest for the First Bird" or "What Have I Gotten Myself Into?"

Spend the money on a similator. You'll be dollars ahead. The G4 is a good one.
Old 01-09-2008, 06:50 AM
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Default RE: "Quest for the First Bird" or "What Have I Gotten Myself Into?"


ORIGINAL: knotnuts

Spend the money on a similator. You'll be dollars ahead. The G4 is a good one.
I agree. Easier said than done though if your not a Windows/MAC user. I have used ClearView when i actually had a Windows box here and it worked quite well. At the moment I'm using CRRCsim which is the only thing I've been able to find for Linux. It seems to work just fine. Not fancy but functioal.
Old 01-09-2008, 08:29 AM
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Default RE: "Quest for the First Bird" or "What Have I Gotten Myself Into?"

I think that you will be $$$$'s ahead and find that it will really help you!
Old 01-13-2008, 11:12 AM
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Default RE: "Quest for the First Bird" or "What Have I Gotten Myself Into?"

I am glad someone mentioned the simulator route. That is the way I am doing it. I bought one of the 2 channel Aerobirds 2 years ago and despised it. The only way to pull up was to add throttle, if your were too close to the ground, too bad. Other than that plane I have never really flown.

That was then, this fall I bought FS One and started flying it. I put about 5-6 hours into the Alpha 40 trainer (has ailerons) and decided I would never do without. FS-One has that very same Aerobird I hated. After becoming quite competant on the trainer I tried the Aerobird and despised it all over again. I then tried the 3 channel Aerobird and it was far nicer, having elevators. However, by then I really missed having ailerons.

Since then I have been religiously practicing landings and take-offs in heavy cross winds and with turbulent wind. I can land the trainer 95% of the time in bad conditions and almost 100% of the time in good conditions. I can fly upside down and do careful figure 8s in the sky inverted. I have moved onto aerobatic aircraft and I find them easier to control now because I have solid practice time (about 20 hours now). I only fly on high rates so I have good stick control and I only use the normal ground based view like real RC flying. I use the chase plane view occasionally to debug something I am learning but not often.

Right now I am leaning towards buying the [link=http://www.greathobbies.com/productinfo/?prod_id=EFL2500]Mini ShowTime 4D ARF[/link] because it flies easily and can fly slowly if wanted. I know the traditionalists won't like it but the simulator used properly can teach you to fly on your own. I would have destroyed any plane I bought without the sim but I can push things without risk and learn far faster at home in my living room than I could wrecking real planes.

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