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  1. #401

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    RE: CDI gr8flyer55

    Hi guys.
    Having a great time on my cruise!
    Bermuda was great this time. Had lots of fun, but miss the work on the project too.
    Making the changes for the switches on my board drawing and will post a PDF for etching soon as it's completed. Next part will be even more fun with the user settings and the ability to make the hex file in the spreadsheet. Can't wait to see that Jake! Great addition to an even greater project!

    John


  2. #402
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    RE: CDI gr8flyer55

    ORIGINAL: COM

    Hi Rob,

    Nyemi does answer my emails either. I guess he is busy.
    Between my emails he was active on the forum....

    Btw, buy myself a homelite for test cdi's I want a real good working cdi on my bike (Aprilia Classic 125cc)
    I hope Jake can make a change for me, I have a booster valve at high rpm (8000) this must be open for extra power.
    CU, Rob
    http://www.electronics.gompy.net

  3. #403

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    RE: CDI gr8flyer55

    I noticed a bug in the code. LowRPMAdvance is actually working as a delay instad of the advance. It should be: SensorDigiDeg - LowRPMAdvance = correct LowRPMAdvance.

    Hopefully this hasn't caused any problems. It should only affect 121-915 RPM operation. That's probably just a spark or two at startup.

    It will be fixed in the next version. I should have an engine with a prop running by then so I can test things out more thoroughly.


    -Jake
    http://www.electrofunnel.com/CDI-2012/index.htm

  4. #404

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    RE: CDI gr8flyer55

    Hi Jake,

    What are you using as a hub for the magnet? If you need one I can machine one for you. So I take it that hub size does not affect operation?
    Regards
    Charlie M.

  5. #405

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    RE: CDI gr8flyer55

    I'm still working on my engine. Waiting on a M8 drill and tap to do the shaft. I'm also trying to get things set up so I can first test the stock setup, then see how well the CDI performs. Shouldn't be too long though.

    Gompy's power booster switch should be easy to do.

    I've given up on making the spreadsheet generate the hex, for now. I got everything working well, but I just can't figure out how to generate the checksum in excel. It will probably need to be done with a VBA macro. But I spent way too long trying to figure it out and I'm kinda sick of trying to work it out.

    What I need to do is add all the hex digit pairs between the ":" and the last two checksum digits, then invert that answer and add one to it. It's just a basic programming exercise, but I can't figure out how to do it in excel. If anyone can figure it out then generating the Intel hex file will be easy.

    I've moved all the settings into the table and fixed the memory locations of the tables, so changing the values in the hex is easy. Generating the checksum sounds easy also, but I just can't get it to work.


    -Jake
    http://www.electrofunnel.com/CDI-2012/index.htm

  6. #406
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    RE: CDI gr8flyer55

    Jake, there is still *dwell time* into your code (line 66), but dwell didn't exist into a CDI.
    I think *SCR gate time* will be better to understand for people who read the code.
    CU, Rob
    http://www.electronics.gompy.net

  7. #407

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    RE: CDI gr8flyer55

    I've changed it to "Trigger_Pulse_Time" in the version I'm working on now. Not a whole lot of new features in the next version, so it should be ready pretty soon.

    Today I timed my Honda GX35 clone (4-stroke) with the stock setup. It seems to run at a 25 degree advance. Now I'm kinda worried that 30 degrees won't be enough advance.

    I also got a throttle servo hooked up and working well. Now I just have to build a test stand, figure out the motor mount, finish making my shaft and prop adapter, and attach the CDI. Then I should be able to get a lot more testing done faster.

    I've also ordered a serial bluetooth adapter. Somehow I got the crazy idea that I'd like to play with the engine and ignition settings through my android phone or laptop without cables. That will take a lot of fiddling to get working, but will probably be pretty cool.


    -Jake

    http://www.electrofunnel.com/CDI-2012/index.htm

  8. #408
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    RE: CDI gr8flyer55

    Normaly with 2stroke I start at 5 degrees BTDC for the first 1000rpm.
    At 1000 rpm back to factorysetting of ~28 degrees and at high rpm the ignition is allmost back to 5 degrees.
    With other words, I need for good tuning ~ 30 degrees for settings.
    4 stroke need less, but 10 or 15 degrees workspace will be normal.
    Start at 30 degrees BTDC + 15 degrees advance = 45 degrees BTDC (normaly it will be ~42 degrees BTDC)
    If you set your hallsensor at 30 degrees, I don't think it can be work.(?)
    You have allways set you hallsensor befor the ignitiontime, back calculate to ignite is hard todo.
    Thats also why professional race cdi use two sensors, one at TDC and one e few degrees befor high rpm ignitiontime.
    Maybe a option in next hard- softwareware version ?
    CU, Rob
    http://www.electronics.gompy.net

  9. #409
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    RE: CDI gr8flyer55

    @Nyemi,

    There are errors into your "ZVS" DC CDI pcb.
    Pin 4 of the 4N27 is going to too manny components.
    Into the schematic pin4 goes to 1k resistor and 100nF capacitor (with a lead).
    On pcb the lead goes from pin 4 4N27 to 4 components, extra are a resistor and a diode.
    When I try to locate the rest of the components, I think I find more errors.
    The circuit around the SCR is not good on PCB.
    I've scan the schematic and PCB and put it on my website.
    http://www.bucket.gompy.net/nyemi-pcb001.pdf
    http://www.bucket.gompy.net/nyemi-sch001.pdf
    CU, Rob
    http://www.electronics.gompy.net

  10. #410

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    RE: CDI gr8flyer55

    Hi Gompy, hi all!

  11. #411

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    RE: CDI gr8flyer55

    Hi Iura !!
    We have all missed you and your ideas. Anything new and interesting there?

    John

  12. #412
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    RE: CDI gr8flyer55

    I'm curious of your program, I have see on youtube you change it a littlebit.
    CU, Rob
    http://www.electronics.gompy.net

  13. #413

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    RE: CDI gr8flyer55

    Can you share link?

  14. #414
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    RE: CDI gr8flyer55

    I did not safe the file.
    Do you not have change the program or write somthing by yourself ?
    CU, Rob
    http://www.electronics.gompy.net

  15. #415

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    RE: CDI gr8flyer55

    No, I am not a programmer. The job is grate. Only, maybe, some question and ideas. Can anybody share a final soft and hardware?

  16. #416

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    RE: CDI gr8flyer55

    John (gr8flyer55), seems to have the hardware in order. The unit I got from him works great.

    You can find the software I wrote at:
    http://www.electrofunnel.com/CDI-2012/index.htm

    It's not quite a final version yet. There are two bugs I'm aware of...

    LowRPMAdvance is actually working as a delay instead of the advance. It should be: SensorDigiDeg - LowRPMAdvance = correct LowRPMAdvance. That should only affect a few strokes at startup.

    If you go above the red line in the graph, you won't get reliable spark. This affects high RPMs and/or high advance settings. The problem is that the timer is loaded with a value that it can't hit. So make sure all your table values are at least 7, and/or stay below the red line.

    Both problems are going to be fixed in the next version, which will be done in a day or two.


    -Jake
    http://www.electrofunnel.com/CDI-2012/index.htm

  17. #417
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    RE: CDI gr8flyer55


    ORIGINAL: jakestew

    John (gr8flyer55), seems to have the hardware in order. The unit I got from him works great.
    But why isn't it on your website ?
    People can't do anything with only your code.

    There are e few schematics presented in this topic, nobody knows wat schematic they have to use.

    You can find the software I wrote at: http://www.electrofunnel.com/CDI-2012/index.htm

    It's not quite a final version yet. There are two bugs I'm aware of...
    Please make a list of the latest software on date and the bugs you have solved.

    The questions about the hard- and software is allmost on every page.

    BTW, this is positive criticism
    CU, Rob
    http://www.electronics.gompy.net

  18. #418

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    RE: CDI gr8flyer55

    Hi Rob. Sent you a PM.

    John

  19. #419

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    RE: CDI gr8flyer55

    It’s so secret?

  20. #420

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    RE: CDI gr8flyer55

    > But why isn't it on your website ?
    > People can't do anything with only your code.

    I agree with you!

    But, I'm just the software guy. I have one CDI HV board from John and one from Adrian. I've also got a couple boards and parts to build another pair of HV boards. I fully intend to make the website so that people can make or buy a CDI, install the CDI, tune their settings, and program it. We're just not there yet.

    Right now the only reason I even have the website up is so that people can download the code without having to try and get it via RCU, as that always seems to cause problems. I don't know for sure what schematic goes to the boards I'm using. I need to look the schematics over and make sure they match up to the actual hardware I'm using.

    When I get to a fully finished 1.0 release version, I'll do some work on the website.

    I tried to get the schematics straightened out in the thread here...
    http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=11163300
    But I can no longer edit the top post, so this thread too is getting disorganized.

    This is an open source, open hardware project. So positive criticism is welcome, but actually doing what you think needs to be done is even better!

    I'm hoping people will join in and help this project pick up the pace a bit...
    -If you can make a better website, please do! Just download the webpage from my site, fix it up, and email it to me. I'll add your name to the credits and put it up right away!
    -If you can write guides on installing the CDI, or programming the PIC, or using the spreadsheet, or what settings work the best, or how to design a curve then please start working on them.
    -If you have any pictures, schematics, or other documents email them to me. I save everything I come across that is related to this project, and having it handy will make things a lot easier.

    More people need to jump in and start helping, otherwise everyone has to wait for me to do it. I'm pretty busy, and prone to going of on tangents that interest me.

    If you can or are willing to etch/build boards, assemble units, or wind coils let me know. I'll add you to the webpage so that people that want a CDI will know who to contact.

    I don't think this project will appeal to the masses, but if someone wants to get into the inner workings of a CDI, or likes building electronics projects then we should make it easy for them to get started. John made it easy for me to get involved, but it took me awhile to connect with him and realize it was as easy as ordering a board from him.


    I'd like to revise the timer board schematic and layout a bit, come up with a good layout in Eagle, and have some double sided boards made at a PCB house. Maybe even design a surface mount version and have them completely made by a board production company. We should do the same with the HV boards.

    We need to pool our resources and order components in quantity and make kits available to people. You usually have to order at least 1,000 units to get a price break on components. That sounds like a lot, but either someone should bankroll the whole thing or we should do something like a kickstarter project to raise the funds and get things ordered.

    Right now John has boards and components. The easiest way to get started is to just order a kit or unit from him, he has very reasonable prices. But we should have a v2.0 design ready to go for when he runs out of his current supply.

    We need good schematics and board layouts in Eagle format to make it easy to order boards from a PCB house. Then we can have them made in quantity or they will keep the design on file so that people can easily order them a couple at a time. Olimex and Sparkfun do many, many projects like this and it shouldn't be hard to hook up with them or do something similar ourselves.

    We also need someone to make up a BOM with DigiKey or Mouser part numbers so that we can order up the parts or people can upload the BOM and have the components shipped to them. Otherwise it's just too much of a hassle to order that many different parts and hope you're getting the right ones.

    So there is a lot of work to be done! I obviously can't do all of this myself or it will take a really long time to get it all done.


    -Jake
    http://www.electrofunnel.com/CDI-2012/index.htm

  21. #421

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    RE: CDI gr8flyer55

    Theese are the schematics I have for John's CDI. I'm not sure if this is the same as the unit I have. My unit seems to have an E-core type transformer on it. We need to nail this down and get part numbers for everything.




    http://www.electrofunnel.com/CDI-2012/index.htm

  22. #422

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    RE: CDI gr8flyer55

    Hi jake. Very good job, my congratulation. But I think, it is much difficult for user to create a table, make new project, compile it…..and so on. Look for this:http://www.francophone.ch/saluuut/allumage.html. Is it possible to make something like this interface? Sorry, I am not a programmer, maybe it will be too hard. It’s only my thought.

  23. #423
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    RE: CDI gr8flyer55

    Jake, I like all your ideas, but as you say.....your the programmer and not a user (?)
    You need people who knows how programmable CDI's are working and why they are working like they do.
    Thats not the only problem, you need also people who knows how engines are working, ignitiontiming, porttiming compression, exhaust aso.
    John, Charlie, Nyemi (maybe I forget some-one) know wat they are doing, but the rest are users.
    They fix the CDI to the engine and hope the CDI are working......they don't know wat they are doing or why they are doing.
    A programmable CDI is not for normal users, but for people who want to get more from the engine.
    Thoose people are tuners and use the engines for real races or other advange use like bikes and mopeds.
    If a normal user test or use a programmable CDI I can ensure they call it sh*t and want there money back.
    You can write a manual from 100 pages, but they don't read it......I know [8D]
    My advice, never sell your designe by your self but doit by company or store and only if you are sure your designe works 100%.
    Other advice, buy a small engine and put the CDI on the engine to test your software in real.

    I send you a PM
    CU, Rob
    http://www.electronics.gompy.net

  24. #424
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    RE: CDI gr8flyer55

    Iura, I try to explane how it works.
    The programmer have to wrte a bootloader.
    The bootloader is the CDI program, but without the values.
    With a PIC who can communicate over TX / RX, like the 12F628, you write only the values into the pic.
    The website you show, you can communicate with a max232 or USB2TTL module.....just like we have done befor.
    But, Jake have write a new program for a new pic, this pic can't doit.
    CU, Rob
    http://www.electronics.gompy.net

  25. #425

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    RE: CDI gr8flyer55

    > Is it possible to make something like this interface?

    I've recently done a lot of work to make the Excel sheet much easier to use. At some point I'll probably write a program like that, but that really isn't what I'm trying to do with this project.

    This project is open source and open hardware. It's a performance setup for people who like to tinker with every possible aspect. Excel is a professional grade tool for manipulating numbers and graphing them. I've seen a lot of cheesy programs for working with CDIs, but all they do is hide things from the user and dumb down the whole experience. When you see what I've done with the spreadsheet you'll probably wonder why anyone would use such a basic program.

    In any case the current processor can't do much in the way of communication. When I switch over to the 12F1840 I'll write a program to communicate with the processor and upload firmware updates. It will display RPM, current timing, etc. Later I want to add a temp sensor, battery voltage monitor, and throttle servo control.

    But, I don't envision getting rid of the excel sheet. It would just be too difficult and time consuming to replicate everything that I've already got excel doing. I've written some excel VBS to get the curve data in and out of the spreadsheet with just one click, so my program will not need to do all the calculating and other foolery that I already worked out in excel.

    For people that don't have excel, it should be easy to get the basic functionality from the OpenOffice Calc program. I don't know if the macros will work, but the basic table generation and curve graph should already work in Calc. So there's really no excuse, all the programs you need to use the project are free.

    I'm sure it is a pain for some people to compile the source, but I have a standing offer to compile a HEX for anyone who sends me a spreadsheet or curve data. I've also gone back to working on getting excel to generate the hex, so that should eliminate that problem.



    @Gompy... I really want to get my CDI on an engine, badly. But between work, school, and girlfriend I have very little extra time. Work is also my shop, so I have pressures there that usually keep me from getting much done on my engines. I'll get it going soon, but I'm not in so much of a hurry that I'm not going to do things right. I need to get stock measurements, under load, before I can do much with the CDI. I don't want to waste time on trying to rig up the CDI and stock ignition on the same engine at the same time, but mainly I'm waiting for a thread tap to make my shaft and the time to do it all.

    I'm in this project for my own goals, so I'm not too worried about what people think of it or if they have problems. I'll try to help them out, but if they have problems or don't like the project, then that's just too bad. It won't hurt my feelings any, and it's not like I'm making any money for my efforts. I should have a v1.0 ready soon, and at that point it should be plenty easy for people to get things working. Once all the default settings are nailed down I don't see how people could have problems. I'll build a few precompiled hex files with generic settings.

    It should be easy to make some versions with a stock type fixed advance in table 1 and a generic advance curve in table 2. If they hook it up and it doesn't perform better than their stock ignition with the same fixed timing then they best just forget about the whole thing. When they switch over to table 2 they should really notice a performance boost. From that point if they screw it up they'll know it's their own fault.

    At some point the project will really pick up steam. When the performance bike/boat/plane/etc. people figure out how sophisticated the project is becoming they'll be beating down the door to get involved. I think we better get ready for the pace to pick up, or we'll be swamped with *****ing about hardware availability. We can't just have a limited supply from only one person.

    If our files were in better order we could have Sparkfun and/or other places that do this sort of thing making hardware available. There's money involved with that also. If you send Sparkfun a design and they produce and sell it then you get a percentage of the sales. It would be great if someone here would do that and put the money back into the project. But this is an open hardware project, anyone can come along and send our designs to Sparkfun and get the profits. Whoever lays out the board in Eagle and comes up with the part list can cash in right away, with no real effort. If someone beats us to the punch it will be hard to ever get that back.

    I think we should either start putting together kits and selling them or turn things over to Sparkfun. The biggest problem that I see is that hand-wound transformer. If we could come up with a stock component that works or tweak the circuit to use a standard transformer then things would be a lot easier.


    -Jake

    P.S. I didn't forget about the booster valve feature, just have been busy.
    http://www.electrofunnel.com/CDI-2012/index.htm


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