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CDI gr8flyer55

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Old 10-22-2012, 12:41 PM
  #701
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Thx Nyemi, but it will be hard I have first to find the factory ignitiontime.
I also not know where john locate the hallsensor, I think 40 degrees BTDC.
Second problem, the curve he put into the PIC, I don't know if this curve will work for the Homie.
But I hope he will run thats the moment I know the CDI is working.

This is the LED we use into our CDI.
http://www.electronics.gompy.net/wee...cdi/index.html
BTW, I use *post reply* and use upload more files.
If you can see the pic is ver small.
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Old 10-22-2012, 12:57 PM
  #702
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

> Why did you chose? The input interrupt handling.

Because I wanted to add features like the table switching and kill switch. I also want to add a lot more features to be used with the 12F1840 chip, so I wrote the first program with the idea that I would be able to move it to the 1840 and add features.

Because I'm using the interrupts the main loop is free to do other tasks. I can do whatever processing I want in the main loop and I don't have to worry about the timing since the interrupt will interrupt the main loop to do what it needs.

It's an easy way of multitasking. Other programmers can also be free to experiment with the code in the main loop without worrying that they will mess up the timing.


New Release...
12F1840 Version

I ported the code over to the 12F1840. There are no other changes. I've tested this on my engine and it seems to work exactly as the 683 version did. No problems and the timing seems the same. I'm running the 1840 at the same 8 mhz for now.

It's available on the website.


-Jake
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Old 10-22-2012, 01:09 PM
  #703
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Jake, you have change the project name, CDI-2012_12F1840_v0.99b8.xlsm

CDI-2012_12F1840_v0.0.1.xlsm

CDI-2012/CDI-2012_12F683_v0.99b8.xlms must be first CDI-2012/CDI-2012_12F683_v1.xlsm
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Old 10-22-2012, 01:37 PM
  #704
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Hi Gompy
Link:docs.google.com/file/d/0BxQHqG9HPIj3bXo2d3NDeFFnYWM/edit
Hall position. 28 ° -30 ° BTDC.
I'm curious, the main difference between the two codes.
Not sure that you will find!
Because it is very small, difference.


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Old 10-22-2012, 01:54 PM
  #705
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Hi Jake
You can also test.
I'm curious, you feel that main difference.
Jake v nyemi code.
Do not interrupt handler, the Hall signal.


I am very interested in the opinions.
If Jake is better code.
I have a new project. Hall signal, interrupt handling
.
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Old 10-22-2012, 01:54 PM
  #706
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

I calculate the timing with a micrometer.
I put the pin into the cilinder and turn the piston up and down.
A complete up down of the piston will be 28.5 mm.
1 degree will be 28,5 / 360 = 0,079 mm
30 degrees BTDC = 2,37 mm
The LED must be on if the piston is 2,37mm BTDC, thats 30 degrees BTDC.
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Old 10-22-2012, 02:00 PM
  #707
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Not a good idea.
Only use a protractor.
Or this.
Link:www.dansmc.com/mc_software2.htm
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Old 10-22-2012, 02:07 PM
  #708
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Thanks Rob, I'll get posting on this forum figured out eventually.

Ray
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Old 10-22-2012, 02:10 PM
  #709
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

I use both, but you have first to find the TDC.
The equpment I use isn't a normal pen, it's a precision tool.
If the calculate degrees not be the same the protractor show, I have do somnething wrong []
Normaly I mounth the protractor at the back, but with a plane engine it's hard to do.
Into the front you have to watch the prop very good.

I hope Jake can make also a version with communication like we have done with the 16F628.
Realtime changing the curve and see on laptop if the engine will be better or not.
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Old 10-22-2012, 02:56 PM
  #710
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Ray, you will soon have a few similar units. They are compact units. I'll send extra bare boards so you can really experiment with them.
I can supply the component parts for the boards in a DIY kit form, which is why we started this project in the first place.

If there are others wanting a kit, drop me a PM.

John
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Old 10-22-2012, 03:22 PM
  #711
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

If this engine is running, I make it on a foamy (bodyboard) airboat, that wil be the new project for the winter.
The other CDI boards I want to use them for my 50cc airboat and the last Wild-Thing with the 15cc 2stroke engine.
To build a CDI on the Aprilia is not a good moment, we get winter now and I don't drive much in winter.
This will given me time to create a big HV-board for high rotation, >15,000 rpm without flyback transformer.

I hope sometime to get the component names for the PCB of Nyemi.
Without the names on PCB and the extra components on the PCB I can's start to build.
But for the bike this is also a very intresting project http://www.mini-cooper-clubman.de/html/umcdi.html

BTW John, where do you order the hallsensors ?
I can't buy them over here without being a company.
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Old 10-22-2012, 03:46 PM
  #712
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Rob, I buy almost all of my parts from either Digikey , or Mouser. Both here in the US.
I can buy just one or thousands. Usually I order 50 at a time because I build so many ignitions in a week. Maybe I should just send you some and save you the problems.

Making up about 25 more kits this week, lots of repeat orders.
I'll be testing the 12f1840 version Jake posted in the morning for sure. More parts are needed to build your new hv board so I must place a parts order again this week. Last order was $80 , this one will be over $100 with all the extra parts. Looking for the .22 ohm 2 watt resistor on your new board plus the small caps. Never enough parts here when I am building something new!!

John
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Old 10-22-2012, 04:50 PM
  #713
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

> Jake, you have change the project name,

For now I will just keep it the same. It's the same code, I only changed a few things because of the differences in the chips.

There are a few registers that are different and some name changes. GPIO is now PORTA, ANSEL is now ANSELA, TRIS is now TRISA, etc., etc..

For the time being I will keep the code the same. If I update the 1840 code I will change it also in the 683 code. Soon I will have changes that won't translate back to the 683 and then I will change the versioning. But for now it is exactly the same code, there's nothing changed except some names and a few register bits. That's why I kept the versioning the same.

I also don't think the 1840 version needs to start back at v0.01, everything I learned translated to the 1840 so I'm not starting from scratch and working through the bugs.

In a week or two I'll probably start releasing new features that will run on the 1840. I can probably fit one more curve in the 683, and the 1840 should hold several. For testing the kill switch is not so important, so I'll probably make a version that uses both pins to select from 4 different curves.

I think the code is pretty stable now, so I can start making different versions for different applications. Before long I'll get serial communications working and write a program for changing things on the fly and monitoring the engine.

Sometime before too long we need to rework the timer board. A little more filtering on the power supply and inputs/outputs, maybe a voltage regulator, grouping some header pins together in handy configurations, etc.. Maybe even consider running at 3.3v for the processor. A voltage divider for monitoring the battery, and a circuit for a temp sensor would also be nice to plan into the design.

You guys are the electronics wizards, so start making some magic happen!


-Jake
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Old 10-22-2012, 06:38 PM
  #714
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Jake, now I'm stuck. My programmer board (home made RCD) doesn't recognize the 12f1840 pic chip.
Are there any elcheapo serial port boards that will?
I downloaded a design for David Tait's updated parallel port programmer that they say can program any 12F series chips. I'm not sure what I need to either make or buy. Any cheap suggestions?
What's everybody else using?

John
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Old 10-22-2012, 06:55 PM
  #715
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

I have built a couple of David Tait's type programmer, but now I use Pickit2 (original black button). It is able to program new enhanced mid-range PICs , but it don't detect PIC automatically. (I use 16F1825 for my current project, it sometimes detect it tho)

I recommend to use PICKit3, it cost around $35.

Jay
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Old 10-22-2012, 08:51 PM
  #716
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Here is what I use...
http://www.piccircuit.com/shop/pic-p...rogrammer.html
You can pick it up anywhere from $10-$20. If you watch for it on ebay you can get it for around $10-15 shipped.

MPLAB X v1.40 was having problems programming the 1840 with it. The new v1.41 seems to not like it either. But you can program it using the standard PICkit 2 software.

Not sure why MPLAB is not liking it, and it's a slight hassle to launch pickit 2 and program it, but it does work.


-Jake
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Old 10-23-2012, 12:30 AM
  #717
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55


Quote:
ORIGINAL: gr8flyer55

Rob, I buy almost all of my parts from either Digikey , or Mouser. Both here in the US.
I can buy just one or thousands. Usually I order 50 at a time because I build so many ignitions in a week. Maybe I should just send you some and save you the problems.

Making up about 25 more kits this week, lots of repeat orders.
I'll be testing the 12f1840 version Jake posted in the morning for sure. More parts are needed to build your new hv board so I must place a parts order again this week. Last order was $80 , this one will be over $100 with all the extra parts. Looking for the .22 ohm 2 watt resistor on your new board plus the small caps. Never enough parts here when I am building something new!!

John


John wait with order untill I have test the boards.
maybe this board is not wat we need and you have allready order....
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Old 10-23-2012, 01:30 AM
  #718
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

I only put the sensor, wat I think it was good, on the engine and try to start......this is the result.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFBCEB8yxJM[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3OWW0CQhwA[/youtube]

And the old Homie......there is almost no differend between normal coil and John's CDI

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeTnrpk25X4[/youtube]
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Old 10-23-2012, 05:11 AM
  #719
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

The Homie runs!
Sounds like maybe not enough advance where you have the sensor set. Try a few degrees more, I've noticed it works better at around 30-32 degrees for higher rpms. That was Nyemi's chip?

John
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Old 10-23-2012, 05:30 AM
  #720
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

It was the ready to use blackbox CDI you send me.
I don't have try to change anything jet, the engine have run first.
But I never can get the engine start with my hands befor !
I need befor a starter or rope to start the Homie, it's 100% better.
I put the hallsensor somewhere in the hope the engine will start.
I don''t know where you have set into the sorftware the hallsensor degrees.

BTW, I will have to create a slide for the hallsensor.
Now I have set the sensor tide the same you do.
The sensor holder is also not state of the art product.
This must be change too befor I can set it right.
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Old 10-23-2012, 06:09 AM
  #721
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

I watched both videos Rob, and it sounds much better with my CDI running it!
The faster rev up and higher rpm top speed was better. Experiment with the initial timing and use a tachometer to see the top rpm differences. I'm sure it is much faster with the CDI running it.

Started by hand in two flips, very good!

John

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Old 10-23-2012, 07:23 AM
  #722
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

I've made a new timer board etch pattern which includes the extra pads for the switch wiring. I would like to add the in circuit programming header to it yet. Anyone have ideas where to place the header and how many pins it should have? I'll use .100 pin spacing headers which is a standard spacing. I just need the ideas you have for placement from the previous board pattern.

John
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Old 10-23-2012, 07:30 AM
  #723
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

It sounds now much better then when I use the original ignitioncoil.
But it's with this construction very tricky to change the hallsensorposition with running engine.

First I want to locate the TDC and mark this on the engine.
With a *swingring* at the engine I hope it's easyer to relocate the hallsensor without loosing my fingers.
I want also make a box to put the test PCB in it, so I can change / reprogram the PIC.

BTW, I've a PicKit2-clone I don't use, maybe it's for you ?

I use a simple clip to program 8 (or more) pin micro's.
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Old 10-23-2012, 07:39 AM
  #724
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Best to make the moveable magnet ring on the prop adapter. Easy to change and no lost fingers!
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Old 10-23-2012, 07:45 AM
  #725
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Check out this page. This is the board I use for programming chips.

It shows the schematic and general layout for the ICP header. It's 5 pins, standard spacing. Best to mark the proper end with a square pad or mark.

http://www.piccircuit.com/shop/pic-d...oard-tiny.html
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