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Old 11-20-2012, 04:20 PM
  #851
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Hi Rob,
What voltage level did you have in mind..??

2S or 3S ...??......capacity would have to be determined but probably 2200mAh would be sufficient, just carry an extra battery or two.

I guess easy(and also cheap) to connect a decent ubec to get the voltage down for the micro.
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Old 11-20-2012, 05:03 PM
  #852
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

I'm thinking of a 2 or 3S 2C pack and 1500 mA, the HV-board takes ~150 mA.
This must be enough for a day flying.
A normal PIC need 5 Volt or 3V3 for low Voltage type.
The four pennlights we use now are just enough to let the show go on, but it's not safe.
Batteries have also a differend unload then lipo's, batteries will be unload slowly and you equipment will be react strange.
Lipo's can hold there Voltage very long high, allmost untill their are empty.
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Old 11-20-2012, 05:15 PM
  #853
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Or, a 7805 regulator on the board. I've done that before. They hold up well at the less than 500 mah these circuits usually draw or higher for a new circuit, and can take up to 35 volts input. Cheap insurance for the timer pic and if you use Lipo cells, a 2 cell pack at 7.4 volts 2200 mah will last all day long. Very light weight also. Even a 1200 mah will go a whole day's flying. LiFE cells at 6.6 volts 2 cells are also good.

John
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:43 PM
  #854
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Yes, even the LP2950 that was used previously with the 16f628a micro would be ok. Maybe better if the LiFE was used.
Only 100mA but only driving the micro.
At 35 volts I think you'd want to try to reduce it a bit first. Poor old regulator will tend to get a bit hot under that condition.
Although I realise you were just quoting the max level John.

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Old 11-20-2012, 08:55 PM
  #855
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Yup, that's the max rating. I use them on regulator boards on Harley's with my ignitions.
Put em' on a heat sink and forget they're in there.
I like the little 78L05 for the timing boards. Small TO-92 package style, add a few caps and it's ready.


John
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Old 11-21-2012, 02:15 AM
  #856
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

If Jack gone use a 3V3 chip, it's possible to get the Voltage from one cell.
The other cells from the packege are use for the CDI, don't matter how many cell left.
Same can do with 5 Volt, you only need 2 cells and a regulator to stabilize the 5 Volt.
Most cellloader will also balans the cell wile loaded and the chip don't use much current.
Regulatet electronics need more Voltage to keep the reable.
I'm working on a new HV-board, and 4V8 is hard to get reable.
Allmost at start of the CDI the Voltage of the batteries goes down between 4V2 and 4V6.
After a wile HEX-FET's don't swich, PIC's don't get a TTL-signal, it's all or nothing with 4V8.
A 2S LiPo packege will say, 2V4 extra befor it will be critical for the electronics.

Using only the the HV-board John use with a hallsensor it's no problem at all.
But with a advange timerboard it's a differend cookie
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Old 11-21-2012, 02:36 AM
  #857
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> I have a way that works to kill the signal to the SCR by opening the trigger connection for a positive kill of the spark output.

That would be great! The TX/RX pins have only those two choices. They can be split up also, so TX can be 7 or 3, RX can be 6 or 2. The sensor input needs to stay on the same pin, everything else can be moved around whatever way is easiest for the hardware layout (Pin 4 is input only).

Aside from the restrictions I just mentioned, it's very easy to change the pins around in the software.


> EDit....... sorry....are you referring to the physical pin or the port number.???

Kind of silly how microchip did things. I've got the datasheet handy so I try to mention actual pin numbers for the hardware guys.


> First of all, why don't we use LiPo batteries ?

I use LiPo batteries. It's easy enough to get an ESC or UBEC from HK. They're like $3, so I don't think we can really hope to put a regulator and power filtering on the board for cheaper than that.

> Third, first finish version 1 with the 12F683 befor start version 1 with a 12F1840.

The reason I did it this way is because it's the EXACT same code for both. The only changes are the processor differences... just the pin names and some register settings. Other than that, it runs the same code at the same processor speed. The versions will split soon, but right now the code is the same for both. Since they both use the same calculations and spreadsheet tables I couldn't see any reason to not put them together.

> Wait for some time, atleast until some of us have test the version 1 of the 12F683 software.

Progress waits for no man.

> Fifth, we need layouts and schematics to make it easy to the people who want build the CDI.

I agree 100%.

> he will invert the killswitch and the table switch, but thats only possible if the PCB's are ready for this change.

The current PCB is fine for that change, I only have to change the software and people will have to use a different type of switch. Instead of a normally open switch people will have to use a normally closed switch, or use a toggle switch.

> If the topic will be longer it's also hard to find the sollutions for common errors of one version.

There should probably be three threads for this project. One for hardware development, one for software development, and one for questions and helping new users. If someone wants to do this I'm all for it, but we really need someone to write up a summary of everything that has gone on, with all the pics and links, and then start new threads.

I'll make a deal with everyone... If you guys write up a summary and start new hardware and help threads... I'll review everything I've done and post up a complete software summary and programming instructions thread.

In any case, things are going well on my end. I have one more major feature to add for the 683, then I will concentrate on the 1840. I want to add instantaneous RPM measurement from the hall pulse length based on the processor learning the hall pulse relation to the RPM and storing that data in the eeprom. This will be used to solve the first revolution timing problem, and eliminate the need for settings related to estimated starting RPM, etc..


-Jake
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Old 11-21-2012, 03:40 AM
  #858
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Jake,
I started to do the schematics and the boards layout but it became a bit confusing as to what was being used. That and it appeared someone else also started so I held back a bit to see what the outcome was.
Cheers ...Jorgo
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Old 11-21-2012, 05:45 AM
  #859
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

I don't think we are at a point when we can lock-down the PCB design of the 683, at least until Jake splits the development of the 2 processors. everything that has be done so far has been development work. Once the 683 is locked down a separate thread for the 1840 should be made. As for documentation, yes this needs to be taken care of asap and a summary would be best. If a new thread is started I recommend that it be switched to RCGroups, this way posting / uploading of files won't be a hassle. Jake and John if you guy's are ok with that I'll start a RCG thread for the 1840.
>There should probably be three threads for this project. One for hardware development, one for software development, and one for questions and helping new users.
Since the hardware and software go hand-in-hand, there should be a 683, 1840, and a help thread. After your next change, if it is common, keep the thread as is for now otherwise split the dev. and the threads
I've been working on a program flow chart for newbie’s which makes things a lot clearer to follow. We need to co-ordinate the rest of the docs. (PCB,Sch, and so forth) any volunteers?

Ray
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:04 AM
  #860
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Sent you a PM Ray.

John
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Old 11-22-2012, 08:05 AM
  #861
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Modify Johns transformer for the new HV-board.
Remove the 10 winds of the flyback and split the 20 winds primary into two peaces of 10 winds.
The hole transformer is 15x15mm, it's work for a Swiss watchmaker
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Old 11-22-2012, 08:42 AM
  #862
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Rob, that looks promising!
If we are splitting the 20 winds into 2 winds of 10, is this for a FET push - pull oscillator circuit? That would seem a logical choice for how you made the transformer. It should be a powerful hv circuit.

John
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Old 11-22-2012, 08:54 AM
  #863
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

With a transformer wind 1:10 and 4V8 I get 88 Volt to load the capacitor.
Theoretical it must be 96 Volt (2x 48 Volt), so the designe is ~90% effective, not bad
You transformer is with the modification wind 1:40, so the output Voltage will be (4x 96) x 90% Volt = 345 Volt
With load the Volatge can be a littlebit lower but I think still enough.
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Old 11-22-2012, 09:49 AM
  #864
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Congratulations Gompy.
I have always said that the push - pull oscillator circuit is a good solution. The efficiency of over 90%.
Here the transformer drive circuit is simple.(
See circuit diagrams)
Not used Choke coil.
Easy to zoom out.
Link:www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/10936-flip-flop-inverter-using-low-voltage-input.html

I ask.
Use air gap in the transformer?

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Old 11-22-2012, 10:02 AM
  #865
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

I realy dont know if there is a aircap, the tranformer is standard from John.
I broke the ecore and have to glue this one, so this one have a aircap thats be sure
Now i use a big transformer with IRL540, but i think I can use smaller FETs like TO92 case.
The question....wat type do I need, there are a lot.
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Old 11-22-2012, 10:10 AM
  #866
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Those transformers have "air gap" Between each winding is a piece of tape.
Also each transformer from the factory comes "tunned" up. If you look between the E cores you will see also little tape.
If you remove this between the ecores....that changes the caracteristics.

Thanks
Adrian
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Old 11-22-2012, 10:28 AM
  #867
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Hi Adrian, the one I modify dont have tape between the cores, that also the reason why the core was broken.
This core, I have only one, was welding together....old stock ?
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Old 11-22-2012, 10:41 AM
  #868
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Gompy

I realy dont know if there is a aircap, the tranformer is standard from John.
I broke the ecore and have to glue this one, so this one have a aircap thats be sure
Now i use a big transformer with IRL540, but i think I can use smaller FETs like TO92 case.
The question....wat type do I need, there are a lot.
I tell you from experience.(push - pull)
The transformer, ferrite core center: 0.1 mm air gap.
The three core: the adhesive is suitable. (0.05 mm)


I shows an example circuit.
If you need small circuit.
Do not insist on "ZVS" inverter.
Because its performance is very high.
The "ZVS" Motorcycle ignition is perfect.
The ignition engine model airplanes,
rather transistorised push - pull inverter recommend it.


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Old 11-22-2012, 11:15 AM
  #869
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Whit transistor, the internal resistant will be higher.
It means more heat and thats the last I want to have.
Thats also why I want to use (small) FET and not transistor.
Other reason will be the GS-Voltage, with 5 Volt the Gate push the DS all open.
Because they want to use a low Voltage batterie pack a FET is also the perfect component.

For use with a 12 Volt accu it's no problem, but 4V8 is a problem.
Thats also why I want to use a 2S lipo pack, a littlbit more Voltage to play with.
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Old 11-22-2012, 12:20 PM
  #870
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

You can think about this circuit?
Link:homemadecircuitsandschematics.blogspot.hu/2012/09/mini-50-watt-mosfet-inverter-circuit.html

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Old 11-22-2012, 12:37 PM
  #871
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

I was thinking about a controled pulsdriver who I can switch on / off.
The PIC is also possible, low rpm - less pulses and high rpm more pulses.
This will also means less components and controled current by use.
But first I have to test more with transformers and the schematic I use.
I know the FETs are working and the schematic isn't critical in components.
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Old 11-22-2012, 01:10 PM
  #872
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

I think the circuit is secret.
I did not ask you to continue.
But I ask you. Write down the results.
When you have finished testing.
Thank you.
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Old 11-22-2012, 01:43 PM
  #873
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

The schematic is not secret, it's a normal push pull schematic you show.
It's even based on your ZVS schematic but with differend component to use iot with 4V8.
Now I try to find the "ready to use" hardware any one can make or buy.
Winding a transformer is not everbody can or will do.
And I don't want people gone build some not good working hardware.
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Old 11-23-2012, 11:56 AM
  #874
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

OK John, 485 Volt from your transformer
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Old 11-23-2012, 01:14 PM
  #875
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Very impressive Rob indeed !!!
Maybe mine was low because I used a much smaller transformer. The only thing I was after was using a transformer that anyone can buy at a place like Radio Shack here in the U.S. while it does work, the output voltage was just lower at 200. I'm still looking for a small readily available transformer that will give the same results your modified transformer did.
Great work Rob !!

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