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Old 11-25-2012, 04:17 PM
  #901
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Why do you not use clips ?






And with his bigger brother

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Old 11-26-2012, 12:11 AM
  #902
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I cannot post diagrams to show you because the site keeps saying 500...internal server error

Anyone know what that means..??
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Old 11-26-2012, 02:22 AM
  #903
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

There is a problem and the Internet Brands IT guys have been notified by Nathan about THE PROBLEM.
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Old 11-26-2012, 09:43 AM
  #904
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Email the schematics I will put them on my own server.
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Old 11-26-2012, 10:26 AM
  #905
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Sorry.
I delete my posts.
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Old 11-26-2012, 01:48 PM
  #906
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

The 2 circuits uploaded.......finally.
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Old 11-26-2012, 02:44 PM
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Changed in schematic, I hope this is wat you want ?
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Old 11-26-2012, 05:43 PM
  #908
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So, by removing the transistor, we now get a positive pulse output thru the optocoupler ? Seems logical to me.
Are the new design boards the ones to etch and use for all the future add- on switches and features? I've already etched 4 boards, two of the last design and two of this last design, not knowing which to use, but with the inverted signal, it seems possible to have it work with the existing ignition boards. Last design also worked with my old original design hv board with the negative pulses. To have it work with the current design boards, I moved the bias resistor back to ground base and that worked also. So either design functioned with a simple resistor relocation.

John
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Old 11-26-2012, 09:40 PM
  #909
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Quote:
ORIGINAL: bluejets
Jake,
I think if you look back a couple of weeks, that filter arrangement was what I suggested back then but everyone said correct with software.
I was of the opinion that the micro should get what it is expecting to see.
Yep, I remember you coming up with some good stuff. I actually had bookmarked the site I linked to back when we were discussing things. I was in a hurry, but wanted to post a few things before everyone got too far into etching boards.

It is really pretty limited how much digital signal processing you can do with a 2 MIPS, 8-bit processor. I use pretty long wires with my hall sensor and don't seem to have any problems. The lack of filtering will limit the sensor wire length. Two resistors and a cap is a pretty cheap hardware solution.

Sensor noise, EMI, and ringing might cause some problems when I try to precisely time the pulse length. It seems like it would be pretty easy to put the filter on the actual wires to the hall.

Everything is working great for me at the moment, so if these new boards work at least as well we'll be doing good!


-Jake


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Old 11-26-2012, 10:06 PM
  #910
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Well, I guess I'll finish doing the new "B" board soon as I get my next parts order. Need a few caps and the zener diodes and I'm all set.
Looks like the best options for what I will be using it on. What I needed really was the LED timing/strobe light working and with LED 2 in place, I'll have it working for my tests of timing tracking and table changes. I do have the last timer board working for table switches and the kill button. Nice test stand features for this project.

John
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Old 11-27-2012, 03:17 AM
  #911
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

The transistor output will be the timerflashlight, but the time must be a little longer.
I don't know wat time is use now, but with 0.5 till 1 msec it have to work.
Using a 10mm small degree window white bright LED will also help.

BTW, kill the nois will start direct on the hallsensor with the little capacitor.
On the board there will be a second capacitor and the diodes (a LED is also a diode)
You have to twist the leads and sometimes ferrit cores around the leads can help, see your computer leads wat I mean.
It's impossible to filter everyting because with a low filter you are missing the low rpm pulses and with a high filter the fast rpm pulses.
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Old 11-27-2012, 06:17 AM
  #912
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55


Quote:
ORIGINAL: gr8flyer55

So, by removing the transistor, we now get a positive pulse output thru the optocoupler ? Seems logical to me.
Are the new design boards the ones to etch and use for all the future add- on switches and features? I've already etched 4 boards, two of the last design and two of this last design, not knowing which to use, but with the inverted signal, it seems possible to have it work with the existing ignition boards. Last design also worked with my old original design hv board with the negative pulses. To have it work with the current design boards, I moved the bias resistor back to ground base and that worked also. So either design functioned with a simple resistor relocation.

John
John,

LED2, the one on the hallsensor is only to set the hallsensor in position.
This LED don't have the timing of the SCR calculate.
It's possible LED2 flash far befor the real ignition find place.

LED1 is the one we need for timing the CDI.
This flash must be at the same time the SCR will activate the sparkcoil.
The time LED1 must be on depent of the time between the sparks.
But it must allways be on at the same time the engine get his spark.

The transistor will be the cuurent booster so you can use bigger a LED.
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Old 11-27-2012, 07:16 AM
  #913
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Hi Rob
I'm sorry
. I did not mean to offend you.
I'm just trying to help.
Sorry.

Deleted.
I'm sorry, everybody.
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:43 AM
  #914
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

I draw 4 differend schematics and I don't get the right information to optize.
I quit, I have to guess wat you all want and my last cristal ball is broken.
Pickup one of the 4 boards if you like and have fun.

Goodbye.
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:11 AM
  #915
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

We all have to wait now to see which way the software will go before we make a hardware board choice.
Personally I like the last "B" option but that is just me, others may like option "A" for how the switches function. Whichever you choose out of the last 4 that Rob has so graciously devoted all his time and expertise to, make sure the software is going to function with it before making the board and running into problems later.

Rob, let everyone find their preference and let's see who gets what to work. My second set of boards are done waiting for parts, then I can test.

John
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:13 PM
  #916
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Rize or falling edge, input high or low, ouput hig or low, more or less jumpers, 4V8 or 7V4, big or small board, 12F683 or 12F1840, with or with out communication, rpm-meter, flashlight, nois reduce.
For now no one knows wat kind of schematic or board belongs to the software or PCB, no one will take decision, it change by day or user.
Is there some one who knows wat he want, I don't think so and thats te reason why I quit with this project.
I've see many open source projects and it's allways the same song, they never finish.

I take my time and help my programmer with his and mine HV-board for our bikes.
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:30 PM
  #917
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

I'd say everyone has enough choices right now to select which best suits their needs.
We need to let the software catch up to all the advances made in the hardware in just this past week!!
I already know which I will use. Many choices is confusing though. I will finish board "B" and test , if there are changes later, the etch pattern can be changed.

Their must be other input for the project to advance. Some people take the wait and see attitude. That gets us nowhere. I do believe the work you have done already Rob was more than enough. Relax, and work on your other project for your bike so you have something to be proud of when it's completed.

Please do check in to see what kind of trouble we get into. I always value your design decisions as top notch! You have been doing electronics longer than some of these people have been alive.

The pot has just begun to boil, don't put the fire out just yet.


John
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Old 11-28-2012, 03:53 AM
  #918
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

I can do some more work on the code to make the various configurations easier to change for different boards. Putting in lots of defines will make it easier to change a few settings at the top, but will make the rest of the code a bit more complicated and obtuse.

I'm willing to support any boards that anyone makes publicly available. I'm not going to make special versions for every proto board that people crank out, but if a design works and you're willing to produce the boards for people... I'll make the software work for it.

Right now it seems like only the polarity of the switches has changed, and that's a very easy fix. By the time you guys get your normally-closed switches I'll have any changes made.

To be clear... nobody should be ordering any more 12F683 chips. The 1840 is a drop in replacement and costs the same or less, so there's really no reason to use it anymore.

The minimum hardware to support an ICP header is only one 10k pull-up resistor on MCLR, and a 5-pin header. I think it will be well worth it.

Anything else is up to you hardware guys. The only other thing I wanted to point out is that I plan to have a sensor display mode in the next version, so putting a LED on the hall circuit will be unnecessary, unless you just want more flashing lights.

I can guess on things from schematics, but if you want good software support then send me a working board! I've got processors handy, so feel free to crank out designs and send me boards to test!

I think we're just now hitting our stride with this project, so keep at it!


-Jake
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Old 11-29-2012, 06:42 AM
  #919
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

To everyone and I don't care if people get mad at me.
Ithought this was suppose to be an open source project andopen sourcemeans that anyone who wants to get involved has and I mean HAS to learn to do their own hardware and software. You are given the basics and it is up to you how it turns out. No one on this project has the right to dictate a custom design for their own use. If you want that hire a company that does custom design. I myself I want to see different designs but, I want to see them working before I decide which design or parts of a design I will use. As for software, I can modify the code and if I have a problem Jake is kind enough to answer my questions but, nothing says he has to.

If any person doesn't want to learn, then I suggest they buy something off the shelf. This is a programmable CDI, programmable as in you change the code and you flash your own MCU. No one at this point has a working latest design and already people are asking for changes. Get your board built, run it, and show us the results. This way we can compare the designs and go with what works best for everyone. If someone doesn't like the base design then they are free to make their own boards and their own software version. It seems to me that most people here can make their own boards but, can't or won't make their own version of theprogram. It's not that hard people, everything you need but, the programmer is free,all the software needed to change theprogram is free, people just need to put some effort in.

The base board needs to be made so thatpeople can make smallchanges, if they wantbigger changesthey can make their own boards. Things like having the kill switch provide a high to the MCU is good because if a wire breaks off the switch and does touch something it will most likely will be ground (-), if it doesn't touch ground then it will be a floating high and could cause erratic behavior but most likely will kill the engine. Yes use jumpers on all I/Os so people can choose what they want, they just have to change the code and yes this will make the board a bit bigger but, more user friendly.

Jake could you add the code maybe that allows the most options but, rem them out so if a person wants a certain feature they can just un-rem the code? this way the complied code remains as small as possible.

This isn't my first nor will it be my last open source project. Maybe some should start a closed group project for custom systems and buys? It's open source so it's up to you.

Ray
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Old 11-29-2012, 08:01 AM
  #920
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Hi Ray.
I am in the process of drilling my corrected version "B" board that was posted. I have the option to either place jumpers on the switch headers or actually use plug in wires and switches. After I find my good running curves for my intended use on my models, I can just place the jumpers back on the switch pins for the table switch and forget about it until another feature pops up that can use it. The kill switch header pins is a great feature which can be used by an opto kill switch with the right connections. That makes this project very useable, without fear of RFI in the radio system being introduced. That part I have tested right next to my receiver and no glitches.
I agree with Jake that we switch over to the 1840 chip for future development! This chip has everything we will need and the board we now have supports it.
Addons like timing light support, tach direct output and in circuit programming are easy enough to do with the current board. I want to develop my own addons for personal reasons. All possible with the current design. Rob gave us the basics and I'm sure now it's going to be fine after testing.
Like you said Ray, there has to be more than one person doing the trouble shooting work. I'm sure everyone else IS waiting for the finished product. Let's see some of the results. I will post mine when I test.
Jake has a lot to do, and so do I. Rob is busy also with another project. Bluejets has a project going to use with this system also, and I am working on that one too.

John
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Old 11-29-2012, 09:21 AM
  #921
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

I haven't got my board from you yet, I think customs is starting to get busy with the Xmas stuff, good thing I have patients. I just think that all the squabling should stop and we should start to see some resutls before asking for more. I like the 'B' board and it seems most others doto, I also thinkwe should concentrate on that. I just ordered some parts from Digi-Key and should have them Monday and then post my results. Must keep this project flexible enough for all to use it.

Ray
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Old 11-29-2012, 01:22 PM
  #922
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Does any body know the hall sensor part number of  Dle engine`s ignition.
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Old 11-29-2012, 01:59 PM
  #923
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

I haven't had the opportunity yet to rip one apart to look for a number. If it is using a single magnet to trigger it it is probably a unipolar sensor. They make many types, North Pole trigger, South Pole trigger, latching, non latching. I would think if it is not working, you could do what I would do, just disassemble it and have a look.
I know this doesn't help a lot, but if you think it is the sensor giving you the problem, you can always unplug it, and if the wire out of the ignition has the normal 3 wire colors coming from it which are white, red, and black out of the ignition box, take a paperclip or a bare strand of wire and short between the white (signal wire) and the black ( ground wire) with the ignition on and the sparkplug removed from the engine and seated in the plug cap you should get a spark if the ignition is good.
Other than that simple check, if someone has any idea what they use, I would like to know also.

John
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Old 11-29-2012, 03:16 PM
  #924
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

 I appreciate very much your Help  !    my doubt  was between Bipolar and unipolar sensor,  now i know the right hall sensor.
I friend from Copacabana.
tchau !!!
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Old 11-29-2012, 06:15 PM
  #925
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Is there many places to fly RC airplanes in Rio de Janeiro, BRAZIL? I Googled it and what a beatifull place to be!!! WoW ! Capt,n
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