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Old 12-08-2012, 09:47 AM
  #976
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Gompy that board looks like it should work real nice. Is that the one you have built and have been using?

Ray
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Old 12-08-2012, 10:09 AM
  #977
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

No, I am waiting for the hardware designer.
I am the board designer.
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Old 12-08-2012, 10:47 AM
  #978
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I've come to the conclusion that nobody is building any of the presently available designs but me.
I have used my design board on model engines that rev past 12,000 rpm for years. Now it's no good?
Fine. Try another one. Nobody is limited to just one design board. I've tested many here and all work for me. Can't someone just pick one and build it? It's not rocket science.
It's an open source design. I've built most of Rob's designs. I have at least 50 built ignition boards laying in a box that all work. I can take any one of the designs, hook it up in my plane and go fly it. Don't see anything wrong with any of the designs really, they all work.
Just ask Bluejets (Jeff) from Australia, he's built and tested mine and his works.
I can re-post my original design but nobody seems to want that one. So here's everyone's chance to participate. I like Rob's latest one, looks good.


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Old 12-08-2012, 11:02 AM
  #979
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Thats why I quit, they wait untill your have the ideal designe and be broke.
From now on I desinge and build my boards only for personal use.
If I don't need it I don't designe or build it (anymore).
I don't need a other HV-board I allready have, done !
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Old 12-08-2012, 11:34 AM
  #980
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Same here Rob!!
I am very happy and content with everything I built. By the way, built 3 of the "B" boards now and all work perfect! Thank you for taking your time and giving all of us a truely great design. I have just installed one in my plane, ready for test flight. Engine runs perfect, switches all working (manually for right now) and I couldn't be happier!! :-)

John
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Old 12-08-2012, 11:47 AM
  #981
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I am so pissed off with this session time out ....after I took the time to write and get on some details.
I will try again hope today.
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Old 12-08-2012, 01:30 PM
  #982
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Well here we go again.
I will try to get back to what I was trying to say previously .
Rob, I cannot say too much about John design, I had one but I never try it in real world application.
If I remember right John had the toroid and 4 diodes . That design will work and is all in how you tune it.
Have to get the right ratio in between the primary, secondary and fly back."
On the secondary you want to produce as much voltage possible to be able to charge the capacitor at 10-12...etc K RPM's . The Fly back needs to get 1/2 voltage from the data sheet of the transistor you are using on the base of the transistor if you are at ...6v system. On the capacitor on "idle" no trigger signal you want to tune the system from bias resistor to stay 20% below the voltage rating... This will prevent the overcharging, internal discharge to ground and possible failure of the capacitor.when U first turn on and the engine is not running. I look on better choices for capacitors and they are several out there starting from $8 up to $32 that are at 500,600V but then you have to replace SCR's etc. ... you have to pick a voltage I will suggest use 6v as base and get the best performance then you can go fairly easy down to 4.8 or up to 6.6v without too many changes.
John's design will be capable to deliver the 10-12k RPM's ...but keep in mind that most airplanes engines
are in 8500-9500RPM range and to have that engine to scream at 10k with a smaller prop just to spin the prop 10k...my personal opinion is not quite beneficial. Go for the most tork , load the engine with a bigger prop/pitch combination to give you the best static trust . This way you prevent the wear and tear on the engine and get better fuel economy.
You want to hold the capacitor charged at a constant voltage at the target RPM. Run the system for at list 5 min and see what it does, does voltage drop, increase...Increase will be most wanted that way you will know that the capacitor is getting charged at target RPM and is room for more if you go Pass that as log that the charge voltage is enough to deliver enough energy(Rob's mJ) . Goant try it on the best engine you have and better to be on a factory airplane engine, not a chainsaw ,weedy...etc. An engine with High compression to make sure you have enough "Rob" to overcomethe compression and produce enough to ignite the cylinder. If at top RPM you do not get any sputter,cough...LOL, then u good. If you do...you in trouble....LOL...But go ahead and put a fresh plug and start again if that is still present then go ahead and bump the voltage bit more u and feel your transistor. If it gets hot...then may have to add a radiator or different transistor. The MJE521 is labeled NRD on mouser so someday will be discontinued.So try to find a better choice , Hint ...TO220,use it the way it is or cut the tab off and then send them back at mouser or digikey for a partial return....LOL.
Rob design I think could work better due to the oscillating design and then again...more components so
I see a constant battle on what design to use.
Build one each, get a one of the heli engines or a RC car, boat do a conversion to CDI and It will let you know what will work or not and then stick with that.
Try to keep it simple as possible , less components...the better. More sophisticated ....more chances for failure and remember the size. We are space and weight limited. I get numerous questions why cannotbe smaller....why it has to be the same for size as a 30-100cc when the engine is smaller. Why a 14CC engine cannot use a smaller CDI....and why it has to be the same as a 50cc. Go figure that and try to explain to someone that asks you that question ...why....I hope no one will ask me here that...GRRRRRRRRR....LOL. But in case someone is curious why... well the amount of energy necessary to ignite the fuel is the same on a small engine or big engine/compression. In order to produce that energy (mJ) that Rob talked about you will need the same components. Why cannot be a chip that will do that?
Yes they are some and I look in to that ...but the voltage that we useis not going to be enough to produce the energy we need. The dedicated ignition IC they also cannot be used in our case...so we use what we use and try to be as efficient as possible to make from nothing something that will get your engine running reliable on the air.
After several hundred units that I solder and play with I got to original Bill Carpenter words. People wants to fly to be recreational not to stay at the field or home programming the unit with this and that curve. 95% of the people they just want to flip the prop and go in the air. Couple years back I was discussing all those options from the current soft with MSD, Kill SW and couple others functions but all those will add to space, weight and $. When today you go on hobbyking andbuy a blue unit with few bucks....how are going to compete with that ...and then again when that goes out you do not have with whom to talk with so you buy again and then u get to the price where u can talk with someone and help you out one way or another.
But ....final words....get something , test it for a season on several types of engines, users and then u will find it is a POC or not (Proof Of Concept) like a good friend of mine like to use. If you test it in your back yard only....my not know and since is your design may not be that exigent with it.
Thanks and sorry for boring you out.
Adrian
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Old 12-08-2012, 01:31 PM
  #983
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Adrian,

Copy your work before you try to send it. Then, if the session has timed out, you can past it in a new reply and send again.
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Old 12-08-2012, 01:38 PM
  #984
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Yup, You are right, I knew better but I got on writing and I fargot about time...Now I did it in word and pasted.
I know is out of this forum ...but what saito engines you have? you can email or PM me
Thanks Dad...
Adrian
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Old 12-08-2012, 02:01 PM
  #985
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

All I will say about my board here will sum it up in one sentence.

I have been flying with it in a plane with a Clarence Lee built K&B .61 engine that turns in excess of 14,000 rpms without any misfire, NGK ME8 1/4-32 plug, 20 to 1 gas oil mix, Perry carb, for over 15 years and I couldn't be happier.

John
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Old 12-08-2012, 02:07 PM
  #986
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Adrian, it's very simple......heat is lost energie.
If you don't want to lost energie, you have to change your designe.
Don't make the component bigger, but find the ideal designe.
Sometimes the ideal designe have more components.
The designe I use for now have 95% effective power without heat and use less current.
But if I use the big componets the board will be as big like a greatingcard.
I have find differend components and can make a "small" board with a small transformer EF15.
The board (45x80mm) I have build can produce 130mJ at 10.000 rpm with a EF20 transformer.
Nice to use for my bike with twin cilinder, but I burn a hole into the piston of your modelengine.
One cilinder modelenigines use ~25mJ for 20.000 rpm, so the board can be smaller.
The boards you and John are using have less then 10mJ at 10.000 rpm.
You get a spark, but if the pressure will be a littlebit higher, the spark will be gone.
Same if the rpm will be higher or the Voltage lower, the spark will also be gone.
I don't say your system is wrong, but it don't use the power effective.
I have at high (15.000) rpm allmost the same HV-Voltage if I run low (1.000) rpm
Thats the differend between less or more components, but I have a more reable system.
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Old 12-08-2012, 02:07 PM
  #987
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RE: CDI gr8flyer55
Last posted software on electrofunnel works great for me as is. I'm not changing a thing except for the curves I just tried. If anyone decides to use it with the new "B" board, for everything to be operational, all 3 jumpers must be in place. If you are using switches, they must all be closed makin contact to ground. Just some info in case someone wondered how they are setup. Mine work.

John
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Old 12-08-2012, 02:12 PM
  #988
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: gr8flyer55

All I will say about my board here will sum it up in one sentence.

I have been flying with it in a plane with a Clarence Lee built K&B .61 engine that turns in excess of 14,000 rpms without any misfire, NGK ME8 1/4-32 plug, 20 to 1 gas oil mix, Perry carb, for over 15 years and I couldn't be happier.

John
A nitro engine runs also without a bougie, petrol engines can do too.
If the engine is hot enough, make enough rpm and have enough pressure it can run without a spark.
The heat into the spark wil ignite the next rotation without a real spark.
The little spark you produce at 14.000 rpm is just enough to burn the petrol.
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Old 12-08-2012, 02:16 PM
  #989
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: gr8flyer55

RE: CDI gr8flyer55
Last posted software on electrofunnel works great for me as is. I'm not changing a thing except for the curves I just tried. If anyone decides to use it with the new ''B'' board, for everything to be operational, all 3 jumpers must be in place. If you are using switches, they must all be closed makin contact to ground. Just some info in case someone wondered how they are setup. Mine work.

John
And now your using with the B-timerboard PIC type ?

I have still see into the Exelsheet the MCLRE is OFF.
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Old 12-08-2012, 02:23 PM
  #990
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Rob, it is still off. I'm using it the way it is for now till Jake decides to change everything. I have no problems running it right now though.

John
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Old 12-08-2012, 03:10 PM
  #991
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Rob ,John,
Your design is more complex and will work better no dealt about that with better efficienty.
Your design and John design ...both works and in 2 different ways of doing the job.
Beside you 2 and Niemy no one else come to the table with something different or with feedback...yes I did it and works let's go with this design or that.
That is what I tried to say, make both, get them on testing and the most relaiable, smaller and lighter...some of those criterias will win.
I have not looked to see the design A or B who made it, how it works...my plate is full as it is ...more to that... wify wanted... lighting decorations
on outside the hose and all around and funny thing...as I...since I know my self I never hang Christmas lights outside in shorts and no t-shirt and decorate
palm trees...funny asmolases to me.....but I guess we all have to deal with changes if is hanging lights in Florida palms or what choice of PCB design.
Here are couple of pictures and let's bring the Christmas spirit and be more forgiveing and tolerant one with another.
Life is short as it is and harmony is better than fight, Love is better than hate .


Adrian
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Old 12-08-2012, 03:19 PM
  #992
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Bikeboard.
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Old 12-08-2012, 06:59 PM
  #993
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Adrian,

It doesn't feel like Christmas at first to me unless the snow is piled up on the sides of the driveway and side walk?

I've spent a few Christmases in Florida and I still enjoyed it.
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Old 12-08-2012, 07:48 PM
  #994
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Website had a bad link. Sorry everybody!

I fixed the link so that the new "B" board version will download right. Been busy with finals so I haven't had much free time.


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Old 12-09-2012, 03:37 AM
  #995
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Sometimes sh*t happen.

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Old 12-09-2012, 01:29 PM
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55



http://www.electrofunnel.com/CDI-2012/CDI-2012_v1.0.zip
and
http://www.electrofunnel.com/CDI-201...12_v1.0_B.xlsm
are the links to the v1.0 and v1.0B files.


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Old 12-09-2012, 01:35 PM
  #997
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Keep up the good work here ...very interesting ! Capt,n
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Old 12-09-2012, 02:58 PM
  #998
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Everybody is building timerboard version B, but no one is missing R9 on the board ?
Solution for the time be, if you remove LED2 you have to replace the LED2 with a resistant 3k9.
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Old 12-09-2012, 05:05 PM
  #999
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Jake, I think Gompy was talking about this link.

"CDI-2012.zip This is the timer and HV board schematics.
These are preliminary schematics only! The board files are not included, as they don't exist yet."

This is the link that is bad, on your web page.

Ray
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Old 12-09-2012, 06:16 PM
  #1000
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Rob, I actually forgot I drilled extra holes in the boards for the 4.7k resistor and had added it when I was building them. Just figured it was a mistake and fixed it on the fly. Kind of like the extra 4.7 volt Zener that's missing from the board in this revision of the B board. I figured it wasn't needed and left it out, everything worked fine for me.

John
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