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Old 12-12-2012, 02:33 PM
  #1026
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

I use Microsoft office 2007 and have no problems. Everything in your display looks a lot different than mine. Lets ask Jake what he is using to write the excel sheets. Could be there is a flaw somewhere we are overlooking.

Ray, what version are you using?

John
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Old 12-12-2012, 03:50 PM
  #1027
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55


Quote:
ORIGINAL: gr8flyer55

Ray, now that you have one of the working timer boards, program a 683 chip with the setup specs and Rob's curve and see what you get for results. I just tried version 1.0 software and am not seeing the problem Rob is seeing. More eyes on a problem may see what is causing it. I know if I type in my start up setting for hall position on the engine at 32 degrees, eliminating Jake's setting of 49 degrees, it works for me. Unless there is another glitch somewhere, this setup works on my running engine tracked with a timing light up to 8,000 rpm's. Check if you can and let us know what you find.

John
Hopefully I can run it tonight, if not then it will be tomorrow.

Ray
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Old 12-12-2012, 03:51 PM
  #1028
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: gr8flyer55

I use Microsoft office 2007 and have no problems. Everything in your display looks a lot different than mine. Lets ask Jake what he is using to write the excel sheets. Could be there is a flaw somewhere we are overlooking.

Ray, what version are you using?

John
I use 2007 but, can use 2003 if need be.

Ray
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Old 12-12-2012, 04:56 PM
  #1029
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Ray, I just thought his screen shot looked odd with the ## symbols in place of the numbers that should have been displayed.
I've been running the excel sheets for a long time here and never saw anything like it. He must be pulling his hair out trying to sort this problem out.
I'm repairing some CDI boards tonight for customers, but will keep an eye on the forum for developments.

John
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:20 AM
  #1030
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Think you'll find the program requires at least 2007 excel.

## marks usually mean the parameters of the particular field have been exceeded.
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Old 12-13-2012, 06:11 AM
  #1031
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Jeff, I think you hit the nail on the head this time !
I tried putting high numbers in those locations and got the same results as Rob did. When programmed and tested, it did what Rob experienced, wrong timing advances. Looking at the curve data in the misprogrammed numbers showed out of limit data figures which will cause the problems experienced.

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Old 12-13-2012, 06:22 AM
  #1032
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

I just find the problem I think.
With the copy code button there will be no code copyed.
If I copy the code by hand right into the MPlabs c-file there is no problem.

Tableswitch is not working too with using the buttons into the sheet.

There is also a line not right into the 12F683 code
OPTION_REG = 0b00000000; // pullups on, falling edge, Tmr0

It must be:
OPTION_REG = 0b10000000; // pullups off, falling edge, Tmr0
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Old 12-13-2012, 07:41 AM
  #1033
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

If this is true Rob, then Jake has more work to do. If I press the copy code button on the spreadsheet and paste it into notepad in windows, it copies code to notepad. Not sure what you are getting. I did it with notepad already open if it makes a difference, I don't know. The 683 code does need editing before you can compile it to hex. I change things manually, save it and then run the compiler program. Things do need to be fixed correctly though so we don't have to do this.

John
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Old 12-13-2012, 07:50 AM
  #1034
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

I just copy the complete (?) code into MPlabs and make a new c-file.

But the tablegenerator generate negetive values, thats not possible.
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:33 PM
  #1035
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Oeps.....
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Old 12-13-2012, 07:15 PM
  #1036
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Mine copies the code to clipboard for pasteing great. Don't know how you get this problem unless the excel sheet was corrupted when you downloaded it Rob.
Have you figured it out yet? If I don't change the optionreg statement which just switches from before sensor to after sensor, it only changes timing a few degrees but still runs fine on my engine with the hex file I create from it.

John
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:44 PM
  #1037
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Gompy
There is also a line not right into the 12F683 code
OPTION_REG = 0b00000000; // pullups on, falling edge, Tmr0

It must be:
OPTION_REG = 0b10000000; // pullups off, falling edge, Tmr0
This isn't an error. The pullups should be enabled in OPTION_REG. Only the hall sensor pullup is actually turned on.

If you're getting negative values in the table settings send me a copy so I can see what is going on. There should be a minimum value for each of the table settings, but some of the user settings at the start of the table probably don't have the value checks in place.


-Jake
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Old 12-14-2012, 02:53 AM
  #1038
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Quote:
ORIGINAL: jakestew

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Gompy
There is also a line not right into the 12F683 code
OPTION_REG = 0b00000000; // pullups on, falling edge, Tmr0

It must be:
OPTION_REG = 0b10000000; // pullups off, falling edge, Tmr0
This isn't an error. The pullups should be enabled in OPTION_REG. Only the hall sensor pullup is actually turned on.
Why, there is allready a external pull-up resistant (R9) on the PCB, see schematic.

Quote:
If you're getting negative values in the table settings send me a copy so I can see what is going on. There should be a minimum value for each of the table settings, but some of the user settings at the start of the table probably don't have the value checks in place.

-Jake
The problem is much bigger, see photo's
The timing go negative, ATDC and that can blow you engine / exhaust.
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Old 12-14-2012, 06:11 PM
  #1039
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55




Quote:
ORIGINAL: Gompy

Oeps.....
Read only cell, illegal value, sensor degree '0', est. Start RPM '-4688'. Not good, oh well you won't know if you don't try. To error is human.



Gompy do you get an error message asking you to "End" or "Debug" ? When you open the Excel workbook in Office 2003?

Ray

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Old 12-14-2012, 06:26 PM
  #1040
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55


Quote:
ORIGINAL: gr8flyer55

Ray, now that you have one of the working timer boards, program a 683 chip with the setup specs and Rob's curve and see what you get for results. I just tried version 1.0 software and am not seeing the problem Rob is seeing. More eyes on a problem may see what is causing it. I know if I type in my start up setting for hall position on the engine at 32 degrees, eliminating Jake's setting of 49 degrees, it works for me. Unless there is another glitch somewhere, this setup works on my running engine tracked with a timing light up to 8,000 rpm's. Check if you can and let us know what you find.

John
Sorry John, business has been very busy lately with Xmas and all. I haven't had time to do much on the ignition but, this weekend is mostly open and I will try to get as much done as possible. Jake created the Excel speadsheets mostly with macros so there isn't much VBA codefor me to modify/change. I have found 1 error that gives me an error message when I open the workbook in Office 2003, I'll send this to Jake and go from there, it's an easy fix. I'll also be putting my orders in for parts this weekend so maybe I'll have something new for you'sthis coming week. Oh I don't have any engine that can go above 11,000 rpm so I'll have to make something up, I can go digitaly to 32,000 rpm and then measure the frequence and use my scope to get the advance degrees. Also I can look at the wave forms and post them, this might help

Ray
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Old 12-15-2012, 08:29 AM
  #1041
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Sheet error (?)
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Old 12-15-2012, 09:12 AM
  #1042
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

I hope you talked to Jake in email about this potential error in the worksheet.
The way it looks to me, edits were done in the command formulas and wrong destinations are given in response. This is very confusing. If I go with the normal sensor range settings, mine is working. Unless Jake can figure out what you are trying to do by setting the sensor past 40 degrees, there is nothing I can figure out that will work for those settings.

Does the timing work correctly if you follow the normal setup of 28 to 32 degrees for physical sensor location on the engine?
If I understand correctly, you are telling it that you are placing the sensor at 60 degrees and are having the problem appear. I think it is out of the normal range for the formula to work correctly. Your situation seems way too far advanced for it to be computed correctly and give you what you need. Maybe it's not possible to go past 40 degrees in the setup.

John
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Old 12-15-2012, 09:36 AM
  #1043
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Normaly the ignitiontime of a Homelite will be 24 till 27 degrees BTDC.
Place the hallesensor to 30 degrees BTDC will be imposseble I think.
You need some calculationtime befro fire the spark.

It doesn't matter where I set the hallsensor (40 or 50 or 60 degrees) the value is copy 1 to copy 2 is wrong.
It copy K14 to E21....*** is K14.....empty cell ?
Into the macro it's OK, but the program will do something else.
I remove the button so I can't make the mistake to copy empty cells.

I change the SCR timing to 100 usec and the engine timing is much better.
We use into our 12F628 CDI 56 usec for SCR timing, so 100 usec is OK for now.
I can't find the timing of the SCR we use, it's tryl and error for the moment.

Still have a problem with tha max rpm, at 12,500 rpm the timing jumps to 20 or 30 degrees ATDC.

Table switch isn't work to like it use to be.
I have to remove or place the jumper, then shut on / off the power to switch tables.

BTW, is you make the MSD_Delay less, it will burn the 78L05.
The current at 4000 usec is 200 mA less then if you set the delay to 400 usec.
Problem, you can't shut-off the MSD, you have to use 4msec for MSD and this will be also (I think) the max rpm problem.
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Old 12-15-2012, 09:48 AM
  #1044
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Gompy that macro command is correct but, the formula for that cell is not. It shows the value for that cell =K14 and it should be =K4.
Oh you saw that.

The formula in the cell overrides the macro. Either correct the cell or remove the formula, save the workbook, close it, and reopen it and it should be fine. Nope that didn't work but, I'll find it.

As for the other problems, we'll have to work on them.

Ray
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Old 12-15-2012, 10:01 AM
  #1045
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Sounds like we need all new software to properly use the available functions on the B board.
I've been using my original timer with my settings and curves without problems. I didn't change the MSD delay so that was not an issue for me. As for the current draw, any settings I made in the sheet do not make any excess current draw. At 10,000 rpm, my current draw is never over 200 mah total with my old timer and original ignition circuit.

Changes will have to be made for the new timer board with the 78L05 so it doesn't burn up. Presently, mine doesn't have an issue with current draw the way it is powered. Oh well, back to square one again.

John
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Old 12-15-2012, 10:08 AM
  #1046
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

I try to set the hallsensor to 30 degrees BTDC and a table start of 24 degrees BTDC.
The timing is lost complete controle and at 8,000 rpm it jumps all over the disk.

Uhhhh....there is K4 into the cell, but not after copy 1 -> copy 2
Remove the button is the best solution
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Old 12-15-2012, 10:20 AM
  #1047
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Gompy

I try to set the hallsensor to 30 degrees BTDC and a table start of 24 degrees BTDC.
The timing is lost complete controle and at 8,000 rpm it jumps all over the disk.

Uhhhh....there is K4 into the cell, but not after copy 1 -> copy 2
Remove the button is the best solution

I don't know why Excel is incrementing the value by 10, I know having programmed VBA (Office) it can do real stupid things and sometimes it really pis_es me off. Anyway here is the fix.

Sub Move_User_Settings()
' Move_User_Settings Macro
'Range("E11").Copy Destination:=Range("E21")Rem thisline with a (') at the begining.
Range("E21").Value = Range("E11")Add this lineand it will work fine.
Range("E13").Copy Destination:=Range("E23")
Range("E14").Copy Destination:=Range("E24")
Range("E15").Copy Destination:=Range("E25")
Range("E16").Copy Destination:=Range("E26")
Range("E17").Copy Destination:=Range("E27")
Range("E18").Copy Destination:=Range("E28")
Application.CutCopyMode = False
Range("A1,A1").Select
End Sub

For 2003 users you should rem these lines out if you get an error when opening the workbook:
Private Sub Workbook_Open()
Me.Worksheets("Setup_Settings").Protect UserInterfaceOnly:=True
Me.Worksheets("Advance_Curves").Protect UserInterfaceOnly:=True
Me.Worksheets("Saved_Curves").Protect UserInterfaceOnly:=True
Me.Worksheets("Table_Values").Protect UserInterfaceOnly:=True
Me.Worksheets("12F683_Code").Protect UserInterfaceOnly:=True
Me.Worksheets("12F1840_Code").Protect UserInterfaceOnly:=True
Me.Worksheets("Compiler_Command_Lines").Protect UserInterfaceOnly:=True
' SendKeys "^{F1}", True
' Application.DisplayFullScreen = True
' Application.ExecuteExcel4Macro "SHOW.TOOLBAR(" & Chr(34) & "Ribbon" & Chr(34) & ",False)"
ActiveWindow.DisplayHeadings = False
Application.DisplayFormulaBar = False
'If Application.CommandBars.Item("Ribbon").Height > 100 ThenRem this line
' SendKeys "^{F1}"Rem this line
'End If Rem this line
Sheets("Setup_Settings").Select
Range("A1,A1").Select
End Sub

Let Jake or me knowif you find other problems.

Ray
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Old 12-15-2012, 11:11 AM
  #1048
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

I just realized that this problem also happens in Office 2007 sothe spreadsheet needs to be modified, I'll post a fixed version later.

Ray
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Old 12-15-2012, 11:27 AM
  #1049
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55

For only 4 values so much work.....remove the (usless) button, error solved.
More important will be the timing, I don't want to blow a hole into my pistons.

I don't say the software is complete sh*t, but it need some updates now we know the problems.
If the 683 software will be the same like the 1840, we will have the same problems too.
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Old 12-15-2012, 11:48 AM
  #1050
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Default RE: CDI gr8flyer55


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Gompy

For only 4 values so much work.....remove the (usless) button, error solved.
More important will be the timing, I don't want to blow a hole into my pistons.

I don't say the software is complete sh*t, but it need some updates now we know the problems.
If the 683 software will be the same like the 1840, we will have the same problems too.
Patience Gompy I have the spreadsheet fixed. I will now work on the timing problem as soon as I get a test circuitsetup.

Ray

The F1 on the end denotes Fix 1.
Gompy's version with latest fixes. "Pull-ups are turned off for the switches and the polarities are reversed CDI-2012_v1.0_B-F1.xlsm"
www.unimatrixtech.com/CDI-2012/Pull-ups are turned off for the switches and 0the polarities are reversed CDI-2012_v1.0_B-F1.xlsm

Standard version with latest fixes: "CDI-2012_v1.0-F1.xlsm"
www.unimatrixtech.com/CDI-2012/excel/CDI-2012_v1.0-F1.xlsm

Explanation of fixes:
www.unimatrixtech.com/CDI-2012/excel/Version F1 Fixes.txt

These should be tested, also let me know if there are any problems with them.

Ray
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