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24cc Echo conversion

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Old 11-06-2011, 02:59 PM
  #1
ustas
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Default 24cc Echo conversion

Here is one more engine conversion. It is 24cc Echo engine. Conversion was done by AV8TOR. I have put Xoar 16X8 prop on it. Hand starts are easy (I had Fuji32B in the GBS and can compare Fuji to Echo). Craftsmanship on the conversion is superb. I had run this engine on the test stand today to take some pictures.
I am not able to report on the engine speed, my tachometer did not read this Xoar right (it showed 24000rpm at open throttle).
Anyway, I like this engine a lot and looking for a plane to put it in. If anybody has good suggestions for the plane, or have experience with the same engine please post in this thread.
AV8TOR thanks a lot for a good running engine!
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Old 11-06-2011, 03:02 PM
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Default RE: 24cc Echo conversion

More pictures
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Old 11-06-2011, 03:05 PM
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Default RE: 24cc Echo conversion

engine weight
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Old 11-07-2011, 03:27 AM
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Default RE: 24cc Echo conversion

I have several Echo 2400 weed whackera and blowers. The 2400 is not made anymore but was one the best.
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Old 11-07-2011, 09:50 AM
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Default RE: 24cc Echo conversion


Quote:
ORIGINAL: ustas

engine weight

How much weight loss would occur in removing the flywheel/magneto coils and using either gas/glow or electronic CDI? How does this engine compare to a 16cc Echo? Thanks.
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Old 11-07-2011, 12:15 PM
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Default RE: 24cc Echo conversion

Something like a 65"~ 75" Cub would be good.

50 something inch WWI biplane (at a push).

"60" size trainer type aircraft.

40 in Geebee!
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Old 11-07-2011, 03:23 PM
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Default RE: 24cc Echo conversion

Coil and machined flywheel weight is about 449 gr (15.8oz) - this is from the different engine, but it is pretty much in the ball park.
You probably will end up with the weight of the engine that is about 1554-449=1105gr
I have ST90 (Italian version)and with the mount it's weight is about 697gr plus 134 gr for the muffler and the total is 831gr
May be AV8TOR would comment on the gas/glow and no flywheel and coil conversion
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Old 11-07-2011, 08:00 PM
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Default RE: 24cc Echo conversion

Thanks for the "kudos" on the engine and I am glad you are happy with it. Everyone I have sold them to has loved them. I have a number of 21 to 25cc Echo engines and 25 to 27cc Stihl engines I am going to be converting for sale. Actually, some of them would already have been ready except my daughter came down with tonsilitis and then to add insult to injury broke her ankle.... PM me if you want to pre-order and get a special deal...

AV8TOR
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Old 11-07-2011, 08:03 PM
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Default RE: 24cc Echo conversion

Oh, forgot to answer the question. I believe my last Gas/Glow 21/24cc series Echo came in at 2 lbs. 6 oz. (That's Gas/glow, with no ignition system but otherwise ready to fly, with a homemade muffler and engine mounting studs/nuts.)

As far as what they can fly... Well, I have one that is stock except for a larger bore carb and a free breathing exhaust that flies the hell out of my big Great Planes Fokker Triplane. I have another one that is hopped up that flies great on a 72" wingspan Katana. (Unlimited vertical). We have another one (a 21cc) on a Super Sportster 120 that seems like a "match made in heaven". They are light and make some decent power. They are definitely NOT limited to Cub type aircraft. If they were, I wouldn't be so interested in them. I've been flying them in aerobatic planes for years now.

A stock Echo 21cc on a Great Planes Big Stik, (not the Giant Stik) would be great and fly for pennies.... Been there, done that, for many, many flights.

Remember, both BME and FPE engines are based on Echo engines, and sell for, well just a whole lot more than I sell them for, by about a factor of four...

AV8TOR
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Old 11-08-2011, 01:03 PM
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Default RE: 24cc Echo conversion

Quote:
ORIGINAL: av8tor1977
I have another one that is hopped up that flies great on a 72'' wingspan Katana. (Unlimited vertical).
Kept very light or you have a tuned pipe? My 70" Yak54 was adequate on a 26cc CRRC GP26R (box silencer) and slightly underpowered on a GF26i (box silencer), but lively on a 180FS (30cc) glow engine. Just managed knife edge loops on the GP26R, reasonably easy on the 180FS.

Electronic ignition and reed valve definitely add power. I'm not convinced that a 24cc side induction, 2 transfer, non schneurle, magneto engine is the powerhouse you're describing. Big carb, opened ports and tuned pipe (with minimal noise reduction) - maybe.
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Old 11-09-2011, 10:41 AM
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Default RE: 24cc Echo conversion

Echo 23.6cc stroked to 25cc. No tuned pipe, but ported, deck height set, large carb, free breathing exhaust, etc. Turns an APC 16 X 8 at 9400 rpms.

Lots of info in the "don't forget the echo" thread.

Anyway, that flies the CMP 72" Katana very well indeed. I don't fly 3D, but it does wonderful IMAC and sport flying. For 3D I would set the engine up for lower rpms and larger props.

Note that I can't sell an identical engine to this one I am describing, because there's just too many hours work in making it to be worthwhile for me. But the 24cc on my Fokker has nothing more than a larger carb and a free breathing muffler and it has plenty of power. Turns a big old wood Top Flite 18 x 6 prop at about 7600 or so, and that pulls that Fokker through huge loops, Immelman turns, nice steep climbs, etc. Remember too that Gas/Glow itself adds a couple hundred or so rpms in power as well.

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Old 11-26-2011, 01:33 PM
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Default RE: 24cc Echo conversion

I have decided to put this Echo on the Stik that I got from the *-bay.
Had to strip the covering on the fuselage (needed to add strength to it).
I also think that the prop does not have enough clearance with the stock landing gear - about 3-1/2". Will end up putting a taller and wider gear, and bigger wheels.
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Old 11-26-2011, 01:39 PM
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Default RE: 24cc Echo conversion

Forgot to add that the wing span is about 65" and the chord is about 15". Here is a picture with the prop on the engine crankshaft to show clearance to the ground.
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Old 11-26-2011, 05:43 PM
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Default RE: 24cc Echo conversion

Your Echo will fly that airplane quite well. However, I notice that it's nose is quite long. See if mounting the rudder and elevator servos in the rear near the tail will get it to come close to balance. If not, you might want to cut an inch or so off that nose....

As far as prop clearance, it's kind of nice to have about 2" clearance when the tail is held up so that the airplane is sitting level. You can can by with less if you fly on a well prepared strip, and you are experienced.

Congrats on your new plane!

AV8TOR
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Old 11-26-2011, 06:22 PM
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Default RE: 24cc Echo conversion

AV8TOR you are right. When I was taking the picture I had a couple of weights near the tail to keep the nose up. I have already took off (cut and pushed and pulled and so on) the front firewall and is going to make it shorter by at least 1". Fuselage already has a couple of cutouts for the servos in the very back close to the tail.
Will work on it tomorrow. They used some kind of a white glue (I am not sure if this is a hot glue or not) to glue the airframe. It is not very strong. I am glad I took out the firewall. They had used balsa for the triangle stock between firewall and fuselage sides as well.
As far as ground clearance, I am going to put taller gear and bigger wheels. Big props are expensive!
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Old 11-26-2011, 08:23 PM
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Default RE: 24cc Echo conversion

is that the .60 size one with the two piece fuse? I got the .40 size version and am putting a 18cc Poulan on it, still yet to get that one finished but it's almost there, I cut about 1.5" off the nose of that with the receiver and battery in the tail, flight servos in stock location (small airframe)
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Old 11-27-2011, 06:40 AM
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Default RE: 24cc Echo conversion

rangerfredbob it is the .60 size stik with the 2 piece fuselage. This one has cut outs for the servos in the tail as well as the servo mounting plywood plate in the middle of the fuselage. I am also moving the firewall back and will sheet the tail with the 1/32 balsa - it just seems too weak for the gas plane for me. I have also took off the plate on the bottom of the end of the fuselage to get access to the tail from inside of the fuselage to strengthen the tail installation - there is almost nothing there to hold the tail in the fuse once it is glued to the cutout in the fuselage. This kit is a good laser cut kit, but the glue job is pretty weak and hardware is not something to write back home about.
rangerfredbob, would you mind posting pictures of your bird with the 18cc installed?
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Old 11-27-2011, 07:56 AM
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Default RE: 24cc Echo conversion

I could have sworn I had newer pictures than these, but here you go:




I now have the center of the wing covered and 3 of the 5 servos are connected. Mine seemed to be glued decent but it's probably a foot shorter than yours... this thing is tiny, especially to fit all I did in it. All said and done it's 5lb 13oz which is probably a bit on the heavy side but we'll see. As you can see the nose is short, cut half of what was sticking in front of the wing off and widened the wing about 3" for some more wing area and got rid of the dihedral while I was at it. Also changed to dowel and screw wing mounting from rubber band mount. The tail is what I thought was flimsy, it's built up balsa with no hard wood spar at the trailing edge, so I cut a channel in it and CA'd in a piece of carbon fiber strip that's bowed to meet the leading edge, helped wonders.
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Old 11-27-2011, 08:33 AM
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Default RE: 24cc Echo conversion

These are all good modifications you had done. Thanks for sharing pictures.
I am looking at taking away the dihedral myself and adding to the wingspan 5-6 inches.
I will post pictures of the mods later.
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