diablo_r

I've got my Poulan 25 running on 6% oil, 27% methanol, 65% petrol and 2% nitro (its actually 35% prosynth glow fuel, 65% petrol) and it runs the same glow on or off with a OS type F plug. its got a lot of tuning work done though. I would say 30% methanol is your min content as if you replace the 2% nitro with methanol you are about there. At 30% glow fuel 70% petrol I found it did not run so well and needed the glow on for anything less than about 4000rpm.

I've got some straight methanol on order and will mix that at 65% petrol, 32 or 33% methanol, 2 or 3% synth oil. Hopefully have the result of that in a week ort two.

Cheers,
Rich

RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

Bad. Alcohol and gasoline aret two different animals. All rubber/plastic in the fuel system is designed for gasoline - I mean it survives gasoline as a solvent. Put alcohol in there and you will get eaten rubber, harden lines that will crack easy, seized fuel pump and so on, and so on.
I just read about E85 - they describe it quite well. Just not worth it unless your car is already 'fuel flexible' (not many of them are).

Just wait till oil industry will go out of business then you may expect something for alternative fuel available. I bet motor industry and oil industry scratches back each other. And I have a feeling that all these 'alternative fuel' cars or hybrids are only for tax brake. In example what kind of incentive is that when Highlander Hybrid cost almost 10 grands more than then the standard version. It will end up at the junk yard before it pays off.

Yeah, I sound frustrated, but many of us are with this gas price. Cost me over 10 bucks to drive to the office and back.

RysiuM

av8tor1977

My Feedback: (6)

If you really put methanol in your motor home, you have a serious problem. You need to drain it out and flush the fuel system with gasoline. An engine needs double the amount of methanol versus gasoline to run properly. The carburetor or fuel injection is not set up to deliver the proper amount of methanol. If, somehow, the engine continues to run with the methanol, it will burn up due to an extremely lean fuel mixture. Further, all components in your fuel system will start to deteriorate and/or corrode.

Holley sells carburetors set up for methanol use for racing, but I don't even know how they would stand up to long term continuous use as the racers generally purge the system of alcohol after the race(s). Besides, that still wouldn't solve the problem of your entire fuel system, even including the gas tank, not being alcohol compatible.

Sorry, but you better get that methanol out quick!

AV8TOR

av8tor1977

My Feedback: (6)

Just as an update, it looks like onboard full time glow is viable with one "C" size battery. I had a problem with my test runs, but it was the battery. I had bought some 3000 mah NMH cells from Radio Shack, and the bottom line after cycling and testing is that they are junk. However, even given that the cell only had a capacity of about 800 mah, the engine ran fine for quite a while. I've ordered some good quality 3800 mah cells that I think will work great, and give an "on time" of well over 1 1/2 hours.

www.cheapbatterypacks.com

Once I get this project flying and all sorted out, I'll go back to experimenting and try the glow fuel/gasoline mixes.

AV8TOR

diablo_r

well I've now given up on the glow plug with methanol/petrol mix at 35% glow fuel, 65% petrol. It ran fine even when my oboard glow came disconnected during flight! The problem I've found is that it seems to eat glow plugs. After a couple of hours running it gets difficult to start, adn the glow plug gets like a white coating on it. Another couple of flights and it won't even start. Well at the price of OS type F plugs over here I'm going back to petrol and developing the CDi ign to run instead. Its only a couple of oz heavier than an onboard glow setup and will run for years rather than hours.

Cheers,
Rich

RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

I guess it's nothing strange here. Glow plug on RC engine usually doesn't last longer than a couple hours (on racers it only one flight )

RysiuM

diablo_r

I think the extra heat generated by the lower oil content and the additives in the petrol deteriorate the glow plug very quickly. I run an OS type F in my saito 82 on glow fuel and I change it every 10 or 12 hours or so. The same plug in the Poulan lasts about 2 hours.

Oh well, I would the CDI toroid last night so will build the circuit tonight and get back onto spark ign, but I'll post about that in the home made coils thread! From what I've experienced to use glow plugs ytou really need to be using methanol/oil and maybe nitro mix, petrol is not kind and it ends up costing as much in glow plugs as it would in glow fuel in the first place[:-]

Cheers,
Rich

av8tor1977

My Feedback: (6)

I'm thinking this could be caused by additives in the gas. I have seen this on spark plugs, but admittedly only in engines with far more than two hours running. I would suggest you try a different brand of gasoline. I haven't checked my glow plug, but I have about 1 1/2 hours running on mine, and it starts super easy.

Did this problem affect the engine even with the glow power connected?? Have you tried other brands of gas?

AV8TOR

RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

When I first tried gasoline (no methanol) on glow plug I used old plug that had no use for RC glow motors any more (platinum was gone). The coil was covered with black stuff. After runing it for about a 15 minutes I checked the plug - was bright and shiny. Something like gasoline cleaned it (or burned it). Next half hour and the coil broke.

So definitly pure gasoline eats glow faster then methanol. I guess it is because of higher combustion temperature (gas burns hotter compared to methanol). Mixing 50-50 (mathanol-gas) lowered the combustion temperature and made the plug last longer (I run my test engine about 2 hours and the plug still fires).

As for the alternative fuel maybe white gas (Coleman fuel) is better than unleaded gasoline. It burns cleaner and maybe will make glow plug lasting longer. But White gas is more expensive than gasoline so we are going back to the cost calculation:

10 hours of running = 5 glow plugs + 5 gallons of unleaded gasoline/methanol mix or
10 hours of running = 1 glow plug + 5 galllons of 'plug-friendly' fuel.

OS F is $7.49 at Tower - that's the price of 2 gallons of gasoline mix in US (in UK will be only 1 gallon), but if tou can make Tower plug run, it is only $2.99. In this case the cost is not so high. CDI sells for over 100 dollars (CH) so return of investment will be after 60 hours of running the engine (240 flights )

Something to think about.

RysiuM

1Canuck

Is everyone having the same result of short glow plug life? Here in Northern Ontario Canada a four stroke glow plug costs about $14.50. This would in the end make it prohibitive.[&o]

Bruce

RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

I hope your gas is cheaper I will not tell until I put the motor on the plane and start using it instead of modifying it

RysiuM

Ralphbf

My Feedback: (27)

God Bless the USA

cameron

um buy a card of them from tower!!

captinjohn

Forget the Gas...use glow fuel. With converted engines with needle bearings on the rod, you do not need a lot of lube. Buy strait m acohol and use it with regular glow fuel to get the oil ratio you want. It may be the least expensive way to go. Gas is not cheap....and there is not any advantage to it. all you need is glow adapter and your glow mix. Forget the gas and spark. No interference from spark ignition or extra weight. Power may be up too. Just my 2 cents Capt,n

RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

But it may not work with the original carb. Methanol makes carb parts bad and as methanol requires more fuel inn the air the carb might not give enough fuel to flow.

Gasoline mixed wth methanol runs almost the same mixture as pure gas and carb rubber parts seem to like it too.

RysiuM

captinjohn

The carb will pass more fuel by drilling out the jet......problem gone!!! If you are worried about alcohol and rubber...just put a purge devise and purge it with gas at end of day or when you may not run the engine for some time. The purge gismoes are dime a dozen...or free. Capt,n

aero nut

Well guys as far as my experience goes with the 50/50 mixture, I flew my plane for more than three months worth of flying sesions(3-4 25 min flights per week) with the same plug and it was still going strong until they stole my plane, I think that the catalytic reaction of the methanol in the mixture keeps the plug kind of clean, and also my friend is using a regular long R/C plug with idle bar on his Weedeater feather ligth ultra and it works great without glow power but his fuel has 2.5 % nitro, he made his fuel by mixing 25% of a 20/20 YS fuel from powermaster and 75% methanol(reduced the nitro to 5% and the oil content to 5%) then took 1 litre of this mixture and mixed it with 1 litre of gasoline (that reduces the nitro content as well as the oil content to 2.5%) he is going to have about 8 litres of fuel before he finishes the galon of the 20/20/ YS fuel

av8tor1977

My Feedback: (6)

Hi,

Finally test flew my new GSP Katana 72" with the hot rod Kioritz 23.6cc on glow. Airplane is great! Motor is great and turning an APC 16 x 8 at just under 9000 and it's not nearly broken in. However, I'm not happy with my E-85/gasoline mix. Just can't seem to get a good consistent motor run. The needle(s) are hypersensitive. When I get it adjusted perfect on the ground, it's just not right in the air. Lot's of fiddling and dead sticks. Finally decided the hell with it; I'm going to try the 1/1/1 methanol, 10% nitro and oil glow fuel, and gasoline idea. Don't have a source for methanol, so that experiment will have to wait a bit. Sure love the plane and the plane/Kioritz combo though...

AV8TOR

davewallace

My Feedback: (29)

HI,
Nice pic, except you don't cast a shadow. Add the shadows and it would be hard to tell it is a model.

Dave

av8tor1977

My Feedback: (6)

Hi,

Thanks. Not bad for a first ever effort, and the fact that I only had about 15 minutes to do it before we had to leave for a dinner party. Kind of cool. Too bad the E-85/gasoline isn't working for me. The motor starts SUPER easy, and idles unbelieveably low. But after fiddling with it for a couple of hours trying to get a good consistent run I give up. About 8 dead stick landings with no damage, so that tells you something good about the plane itself. If anyone does one of these planes, be advised to use a good high torque servo on the rudder. I didn't and with the size of the rudder and the built in leverage the rudder has against the servo, it has a side to side yawing motion in flight sometimes in turbulent air. I'm going to install a high torque servo to solve that. Otherwise, great combo!!

AV8TOR

av8tor1977

My Feedback: (6)

HELP!

I'm close to giving up on this glow idea. I gave up on my E-85/gasoline mix in my souped up Kioritz 23.6cc, and went to a 1 part 10% oil & nitro glow fuel with 2 parts gasoline mix. I also switched from Fox glow plug to a Saito four stroke plug. It starts super easy hot or cold and idles slow and smooth. I got it all dialed in and running perfectly here at home. Perfect starting, idling, response, midrange, and top end. I let it cool down and rechecked it several times and thought my problems were solved. It turns an APC 16 x 8 at just a tad under 9000 rpms, so it's powerful as well.

THEN, THE NEXT DAY....

I went to the flying field, and flew the airplane. PERFECT. Not a single fault. I was really happy. Then I proceeded to fly a couple of flights with my student and his plane. I then decided to make one more flight with the Katana before packing up, and that's when the trouble started. After one aborted take off due to the engine not responding, then two dead stick landings, I decided to richen things up a bit. I finally got it to keep running, but it seems rich now in the midrange and possibly a hair lean on the top. Why do things keep changing like this???????? I'm getting aggravated and have decided to give it one more good tuning/troubleshooting session, and if it keeps giving me problems I'm going back to normal ignition.

Does anyone have any ideas, advice, or help to offer? (Please don't say "Shoot the plane." I've been tempted, but it's so pretty...)

Thanks,
AV8TOR

wvarn1957

My Feedback: (3)

I had similar problems with a modified 30cc Echo in a cowled plane constantly changing settings. I concluded that it had to do with the changing static pressure inside the cowl between ground and flying. I could get it perfect on the ground, but as soon as it was airborne the engine would run OK at half or better throttle, but would die when I throttled down.

I tapped the cover of the diaphragm (where the metering valve is) and soldered in a 6-32 nipple. I ran tubing back into the fusulage where the static pressure would be more consistent regardless of what the plane was doing. I haven't had a problem since doing that.

Don't know if this would solve your problem, but it is worth a look.

RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

Maybe your carb needs new rebuild kit. It might get hard on E-85 (it is also alcohol - ethanol) and now with methanol it may started to give up. Flush it with regular gasoline-oil mixture, try to run it on that (with glow plug powered all the time) and see if you can make it run again. Gasolime may help restore the plastic/ruber parts in your carb to the previous shape.

RysiuM

av8tor1977

My Feedback: (6)

Well, thanks for the answers guys, and nice tries but I have already covered all those bases.

A. Running glow power all the time. Batteries have lots of charge left after 1+ hour running.

B. I'm already sourcing the static pressure for the regulator with a hose to non pressurized air.

C. I rebuilt the carb when I put the motor together. I just checked and the diaphragms are nice and supple like new.

I just noticed that the regulator arm is just a tiny bit low. I'm checking/cleaning the carb, adjusting the arm up a bit, and going to try another session. Hope it works. At the settings where it would fly, but rich in the midrange and lean on top, the needles were 2 turns out on the high, and 1 1/2 on the low. Maybe with a touch more fuel pressure from the regulator I can close these down a bit and the carb will be happier. We'll see...

I still can't figure out why or how it changed. That first flight was absolutely perfect in all respects. I flew for about 15 minutes and really wrung it out, and I thought "Fantastic, it's all dialed in and I don't need to touch a thing." From full slow idle on vertical down lines, full power verticle climbs nearly out of sight, and half throttle cruising, transitions, etc., all perfect. Then, an hour later it was a problematic beast!!

Any other ideas??

Thanks,
AV8TOR

RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

Dirt in the carb or fuel filter?, maybe this will be stupid but happened to me already twice: forgot to take out the plug of the vent line

RysiuM