Slade EoD

RingWinger,Try a Walbro WT 499 Carb,it is used on the Zenoah 23cc glow engine.cost around $50,the diaphragm is made from a different material and i do not beleive it will swell.I used to have to change the diaphragm material in my Briggs race engines when i switched to methanol.The stock diaphragn would swell on methanol,i wonder if you can use a WT 499 diaphragm in other Walbro carbs,that would be a cheap fix.

captinjohn

RCIGN1 Read Last Post . Will a WT carb diaphram work in othe Walbro carbs? thanks Capt,n

oldtimer2

My Feedback: (19)

hello anyone, This subject has dried up. there havew been no posts for over a week. Is anyone doing anything? I am rebuilding my ryobi 31 for a glow conversion, the piston & cyl. are off to Frank Bowman to have a ring fitted and installed. When it gets back I will start modifing it. when I will use it for a mule to test gasoline/methanol mix.

Antique

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Walbro makes no methanol specific carbs..There is no special diaphragm in the WT499, all inlet side diaphragms are the same, a WT diaphragm is a WT diaphragm...On the other side the newer diaphragms are made from some type of fiberglass looking material...the WT499 just happens to be set up for an engine that needs more gas, so it also works for methanol...I don't think combining the two makes any difference, but I have never tried it that way, just gas or glow fuel...works fine either way...We run methanol in our race engines with Walbro carbs and have no problems during a season of racing....
I think the Briggs engines use Tillotson carbs, maybe EC Birt had some special diaphragms made....

aero nut

OLdtimer2. I think that everybody is busy either building or thinkering with their engines; you know is flying season and we need to take advantage of the weather as much as we can, but just to let you know I am now flying the same model the Excite 90 from Model Tech (bought one for $70.00 with a smashed wing rib) and using a WeedEater Featherlite Plus 25cc engine converted to Gasoline/E85/Nitro/Glow configuration and believe me I am having a ball with it, this thing has a lot of power and pulls that plane to unlimited vertical, the other engine that I had and was stolen with my plane/radio/field box didn't have the power I am getting out of this one.
So try this combination and I hope you can get the same satisfaction that I am getting, let me know your results.
As for the carb I am using regular walbro carb with the only modification done consisting of the enlargment of the venturi to .400 inches diameter
I tried the gasoline/E85/Acetone mixture I noticed that my engine was running hotter and eratic with missfires. so I stoped that combo and returned to my known and proven mixture.

Otis

My Feedback: (1)

Gentlemen, I have been reading the past five pages of information on the fuel conversions.
I'm working with a late edition of the MORTON M-5. The engine will run reasonable well on glo fuel, but wont produce much power. The original carb design is almost impossible to adjust while the engine is running. My solution has been to install arather long manifold, and attach an O.S. carb. I've been told to use a carb scaled to one cylinder, since only one cyl draws at a time. This has proven to be not quite true. Regardless, I'd hoped to realize a few more R's from gaoline. The original design (circa 1944) recommended 4:1 gas/oil. This is a real mess. Spark ignition is out because of the RF issues. Shielding is really clumsy on an engine this small. I do have a McDaniel glo driver. When I start on a gas/oil fuel I have to keep choking the engine to pull in enough fuel. The engine sounds a lot stronger with gas. I built the engine with 8:1 compression pistons. That's what I'm working with right now. I just finished a set of 9:1 pistons, and am waiting for a set of rings. I suppose I could make the rings too, but I'm lazy. I won't make anything I can buy at a reasonable price. Any thoughts on making small engines run on gas would be appreciated. The MORTON has a displacement of .95 cu in. It is 5-3/8" in diameter.
Thanks, Otis

Fishmasterdan

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Well I am experiment now

I tried some 65% gasoline 35% denatured alchol that I bought a home depo and mixed that 40 to 1 with regular 2 stroke oil I had in the garage which is cevon brand 2 stoke oil.

Once mixed the bottom of the mixture stays clear. I assume something is not blending together. Not sure if its the oil or the gas/alchol.
any suggestions. I think I need different oil but am not sure.
Dan

aero nut

I think that the alcohol content might be to high and is not mixing as I thought it would because of the methanol content of the denatured alcohol, so try mixing it with more gas/oil mixture I would say add about 20% more gasoline mixed with oil at the ratio that you used on the first mixture, that should bring your alcohol content to about 15% and make it more miscible, perhaps the oil that you are using doesn't help very much in stablishing a tertiary system of solubility. well try it and see what happens and please let me know your results of your mixture.

Fishmasterdan

My Feedback: (2)

Ok I went down and bought some good oil. It is Dumonde castor racing mix. It says it blends with alchol and gasoline.

I made a batch of 65% gas and 35% alchol and mixed it 40 to 1 with The Dumonde.

It looks like it mixed well. I tried some and I got my 45cc homey to fire and run about 10 seconds but that was it. Did you richen or lean the carb at all? I kept having to richen the low end to get it to fire?

I saw some Klotz Nitro koolia at the motorcycle shop. It says its 50% nitopropane and 50% koolia. What do you think about that for nitro? I spent all day looking for nitro locally with no luck.

I am worried the Denatured alchol will swell up me carb gaskets but I havent noticed anything yet.
So far its been alot of fun.

aero nut

I think that the nitropropane will work because its designed to work with gasoline instead of the alcohol, I'll look for some on my local motorcycle shop and give it a try!!! about the diaphragm swelling I my self haven't seen any att all yet.
The other product I will like to try is VP'S propylene oxide which is an additive for gasoline racing once I have time to go for some shopping I will buy it, I've been busy building all them Ryan's Rebels that people have ordered, so it will be some time before I'll go shopping.
As for the rich settings You will need to open the low end as well as the high end needle enough to make it run smooth what I do is open both needles about 3-4 turns start the engine adjust the high end and then the low end at full throtle until you find an equilibrium point where the idle and high end works best, so good luck with your experiment I hope you are enjoying it as much as I am.
Bill Pomplun.

rwfly

My Feedback: (8)

Hello Everyone

I tried the gas mix today on a Echo.
I live in a rural area and could not find any of the oils that blend with meth and gas so I purchased some Castrol from the drug store. I mixed 63% gas - 7% Castor- 5% Acetone and 25% meth.
Results: A little rough running and a slight surge, rough idle. Would run at about 3/4 throttle without battery but would not idle witout. The glow adapter I made does have one problem it is resessed about 3/16 " so may be a problem.
I had a carb that I had moified for glow and put it on within ten minutes and ran production glow fuel and was very pleased it ran better than any glow engine I have.
Is the mix I have out of line or what do you think my problem may be.
Best to all Ron

tkg

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Ya'll be carefull mixing all this stuff....Nitropropane and gas are a good mix. In the wrong ratio nitromethane and gas become shock sensitive and can explode.

Fishmasterdan

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Ron;
Do you mind detailing your carb mods?
I would like to try glow.
Do you have any RMP data when you changed to glow?


I found a small leak in my glow adaptor so I am losing compression. I think that is a large reason I cant get mine to run more that 10 senconds?

rwfly

My Feedback: (8)

In reply to Fishmasterdan

The carb was off a old IDC 28cc engine I can get the # off it if you want it. I used some information supplied by Ralph at RC Ignitions as follows:
Stripped carb including the welch plugs, then cleaned as normal rebuild.
I took a dremel with a straight bit and opened up the venturi area until I got tired of messing with it If my measurements are in the ball park it's at about 160% -170%Be carful you don't let the grinding bit touch the brass nipple you will see in the carb throat the other small drilled holes will be fixed up later so don't worry about them.
Now you need to open the fuel passages in the main body of the carb. You need to determine the size of the existing passages. I used a set of those tip cleaners welders use to clean their cutting torch tips.
PAY ATTENTION HERE, you want to determine the diameter of the existing passages and then double the area NOT THE DIAMETER so pi times the radius squared will give the area. I then just started measuring all my small bits until I found one that was close to being double the AREA NOT THE DIAMETER

I did not open the low needle but did the high needle, the one under the needle valve, the one under the smaller welch plug and the three under the larger welch plug these last ones open in the venturi that you ground up earlier.
This is all new to me but I then took a bit a few sizes larger and spun them backwards in the opening of the holes to clean up any burrs, seemed to work ok. Make sure you get the carb housing cleaned up from all the ginding.
I suggest you do all drilling by hand and not use a power drill.
As for rpm data I don’t have any yet. My test bench is a steel post in concrete outside and we have had nothing but wind and rain lately so for safety reasons I put on a flywheel and ran it in a vise in the lean-to off the side of my shop.
I picked up some meth and will be trying just meth with oil I was told this would work. We’ll see.

Fishmaster the burn rate on glow I am told is 2.16 times that of gas so try to get as much air in as you can I will try a little more next time. I am no expert but will try to help where I can if you need more info or I didn’t explain well enough just let me know.
I have to say again with very little needle adjustment the idle was great and the transition from low to high very good better than most of my glow engines.

This is not really as hard as it sounds so give it a try and I want to thank Ralph (RCignitions) for all the info it worked great.
Best Ron

Ralphbf

My Feedback: (27)

aero-nut

Is there a formula that I can use glow fuel, mix it with gas and may be some either and run it.

I can't get E-85 around here, and would like to keep it as simple as possible.

Also it will need to run in the gas carb in my 44cc Echo.

If not I have a carb from my ST 3250 I could use.

I have read this whole thread twice.

oldtimer2

My Feedback: (19)

Ralph, Check post #121 on this thread. Looks like a good mixture table to try. I am waiting for my glow plug adapter form CH ign. for my converted Ryobi so I can try some of the fuel mixes.

Ralphbf

My Feedback: (27)

I do not believe post #121 answers my question.

What I want to know is what glow fuel and at what raito can I mix with Gasoline.

And will this cause swelling of the gaskets in my carb?

I believe I should be able to mix a glow fuel with Gas, and maybe some either and end up with a workable formula.

Antique

My Feedback: (4)

My latest fuel mix failed miserably, the mixture I tried is;

10oz of gasoline.
5oz of 20/20 four stroke glow fuel.

This should have yielded, 10oz gas, 1 oz nitro, 1oz oil, 3oz methanol.

The problem --- the mixture will not stay in solution. It starts to seperate immediately into a mix that appears to be 7.5 oz that stayed in solution and 7.5oz of gasoline that did not go into solution.

Any ideas? I have not been able to find a source of Nitro so I thoght I'd take a shot at this. Not good so far.

wvarn1957

My Feedback: (3)

Ralph, Antique

There is no good way to determine a glow fuel/gasoline mix. It is totally dependent on the type of oil used in the glow fuel. Unless the oil is soluble in both methanol and gasoline, you are limited by the solubility of methanol in gasoline which is somewhere around 1%. Even though a lot of glow fuels use synthetic oils, all are not soluble in gasoline. The best suggestion I have is to take a fixed quantity of gasoline and add about 25% glow fuel. If the mix seperates you have the choice of adding an oil which is soluble in both, acetone ( which will soften any rubber based diaphragms), di-ethyl ether, nitropropane or propylene oxide to form a tertiary system.
I have mixed gasoline/Omega 10% in a 70/30 ratio and then added Klotz until there were no immisible layer. This was OK since I was using it in a bushed glow engine which needed high oil.

Thte problem of making this fuel with low oil for gasoline engines is that another suitable material has to be found which will establish the tertiary system and complete solubility.

I'd like to elobrate on a point that tkg made about nitromethane and gasoline. Nitromethane, when mixed with gasoline will form unstable, shock sensitive compounds. At any concentration of nitromethane in gasoline above about 30% you are flirting with a dangerous situation. If however you insist on using nitromethane, always pour the nitromethane into the gasoline and never pour the gasoline into the nitro. If you pour gasoline into nitromethane, then the nitromethane concentration in the mixing zone can abe as high as 90% at the interface between the two. The higher the concentration of nitromethane the more unstable are the compounds which are formed.

If you are going to use gasoline in a fuel mix and want an additive to boost the oxygen content then stay with materials like propylene oxide, di-ethyl ether or nitropropane.

Fishmasterdan

My Feedback: (2)

Antique;
Try and find a motorcycle shop and get some Klotz and mix the klotz in there. I myself have almost bagged the mixing idea and am going to a permanent glow plug and 50:1 gas. The first tests seem promising but I need to work getting the engine tuned correctly before I mix up other stuff.

I picked up a new walbro 299 but have not put it on yet. I will try the straight glow fuel but it is pretty messy.

Fishmasterdan

My Feedback: (2)

Well I put the walbro 499 carb on a 45cc homey and swithed to glow because gas was not working out. All I can say right now is WOW WOW.
20x8 prop hit 7500 and the trasition was simply amazing. For some reason I think it was spinning faster. I think I was getting a little flourescent interference. I will move it out side and try it again.
I picked up some methanol for 2.85 a gallon. I will try some 50:1 menthanol.

I am AMAZED at how smooth it ran on glow.
Will report some more on further testing.

captinjohn

I hear YA!!!!!! Sounds like you got a winner Capt,n

Fishmasterdan

My Feedback: (2)

Ok the results of my experiment.

I reported a 20x8 prop before and it is only a 20x6.
I was getting some lighting interference before also.

Offical numbers

Running methanol mixed 50 to 1 with permanent on board glow.
20x6 WOOD mater airscrew
7250 rpms good idle.
Running rich with the stock muffler.
Should I be getting a little more RPMS than that with a 45cc homey?
Running a walbro 499 carb.

What is best muffler to buy and from where?

Pictures

Ralphbf

My Feedback: (27)

When you say "Running methanol mixed 50 to 1 ".

Do you mean your running gas and methanol 1/2 and 1/2, or are you running 50 to 1 oil in straight mentanol.

To me it looks like your running fuel line for gasoline.

Fishmasterdan

My Feedback: (2)

50 to 1 straight methanol.

The fuel line (the dark blue one) is a GAS line the other one is a vent and it is silcoln but the carb only has an intake. So that is why you see the dark blue one to the carb.