flyjoe540

aero nut thanks for replying I read that 140@ before in another thread but I didnt know if it was duration or timing. thanks for clarifying it . I wont DO anything with that info just yet .I want to exhaust all the bolt on upgrades before i modify anything permanently.
as I understand this glow\ gas concept you are using ,I was wondering ,isnt this kind of a hybrid diesel engine ,you are just modifying the fuel and its octane no? or is the fact that you are still using something to ignite the fuel mixture(glow plug ,whether from heat or catalystic action )negate it, and make it a glow engine ? just wondering what your thinking is on this
and while I'm on this subject ,has anyone tried to convert to diesel fuel ?just curious. compression would probably be to low no doubt. just a thought .
poco 242 thank you also I will look for a carb within those parameters. the lawn mower shops locally want an arm and first born for just about every thing, 30.00-40.00 for carbs.for another 20.00-30.00 i could get another engine from harbor freigh! any suggestions as to what kind of equipment to pilfer a carb from ,or where to look for a carb would be apreciated.

jstanton

My Feedback: (14)

Flyjoe540

You can get a carb like the one you are looking for from Scott at www.Brillelli.com. He has these at a real good price. If you still want to find a used one on something try looking at old used chain saws no one wants. The homelite and poulan chain saws have the larger carbs on them and they are everywhere it seems like. I would still go with Scott at Brillelli, you would know you are getting a good carb. Just my 2 cents

This is fun isn't it.

flyjoe540

SaCCal72
first ,sorry to jump in on you like that . second what kind of rpm numbers are you getting on your conversion?
are you using the original single needle carb?what prop etc.?we are running the same engine and i want to compare performance figures with your engine if thats ok. the only difference is i'm running ch ignition with syncro any input is apreciated thanks

flyjoe540

jstanton
this is an absolute riot! I started doing this for the economy of gas verses glow ,but now the engine converting is almost a seperate hobby by itself ,and i'm learning alot about two strokes .this is engine number three now i need to learn how to hop em up!thanks for all the good info
also thgis engine has a compresion release valve on it (next to spark plug) is that o.k.? any experience with it?

Scott Ellingson

My Feedback: (146)

I may try it. But I have a different engine I would like to try it on. It is a Poulan 18cc. I have been playing with it a little on EI. not much luck yet. Not enough time to work on it. But on glow it would be under 2 lbs by a ways. That may just be a good cantidate for that setup. I did some port work on it. The intake and exahust were very small. In a few weeks I think I will try that one on glow. The cost of fuel is far less than standard glow so it would still be well worth it.

Scott Ellingson

My Feedback: (146)

Most 40cc -50cc chain saws have that size carb on them. The Poulan 42cc has an 11.11mm on it and the 46 has a 13.49mm. Also look on ebay. There are many carbs on ther for far less money. You can look up the numbers on Walbro.com to find out the bore and if it has both needles.

flyjoe540

thank poco
if I cant come up with anything locally I may have to call scott at brillelli.com heard he may have them.
i got a couple of saws to look at first. thanks again.

aero nut

The reasoning for my set up was to acomplish 4 things:
a. Be able to use an inexpensive engine and to keep it that way, EI are in turn more expensive that the engine itself and still adds weight to engine.
b. To reduce the overall weight of the engine specially in the nose section in order to achieve a lighter flying structure which in turn will reduce the weight that is involved when balancing the plane if you have a nose heavy bird.
c. Keep the fuel economy. if converted totally to glow fuel it requires twice the volume of methanol to get the same flight time as gasoline does, and need for a specil carb.
d. Get more power out of the engine. the use of methanol/Nitro really boosts the performance of the engine even if you use it with the magneto set up.

Through trail and error by doing severall experiments when I first started
found out that the gasoline by itsel wouldn't keep the plug hot enough to keep the Idle going unless you kept it hot by leaving the ignition source on at all times(battery), so the logical thing to do was to add methanol to the fuel which makes the catalytic reaction on the glow plug, this helped ; then came some advice from the forum contributors about the plug part of the puzzle and that ended with the addition of the 4 stroke plug, that helped keep the plug hot without having to use an external heat source to keep the Idle going and the results were good but the transition wasn't good enough a little blurpy and the performance of the fuel wasn't still there, So I had some Nitro and experimented with it and that seem to be the final cure. Then the question came: Where are we going to get the nitro from?? that's when mixing glow fuel with gasoline came into play as the solution for our mixing concerns.
Through all the phases of this experiment I had great response from a lot of people each and every one contributing their small grain of salt, some in more extent than others but the final result it's what counts and I feel happy of the achievement that we made togheter, this what the Hobby is all about. I know that there's people out there that are skepticall about this experiment but believe once you try this you will not want to try something else because it's so easy to operate and maintain a real low cost "BIG BORE" engine without having to spend a lot of money.

aero nut

Hey poco you need to let flyjoe you real identity don't you think so

flyjoe540

aero nut
like hanibal used to say "Ilove it when a plan comes together"! but is it a glow engine, gas engine, or diesel engine? what do you concider it? no matter what you got to love the price and the power ,it makes great numbers. cant argue with success!

flyjoe540

aero nut
have I been had? lol!

aero nut

I think you can call it a GAS/GLOW HYBRID

flyjoe540

aero nut
O.K.gas\glow hybrid it is!

captinjohn

Hey you Gas/Glow engine converts....can you please list all Glow plugs that work the best for these engines. Thanks Capt,n

aero nut

I'm currently using the Hobby People's 4stroke and big bore engine plug which is a special amalgam plug that doesn't have an idle bar and it works great same as the O.S.4 stroke one but is less expensive ($5.50 vs $7.99) than O.S. I think it can also run good with a regular R/C long plug with Idle bar try it, I used one before on my echo 25 that got stolen and it worked great>

jstanton

My Feedback: (14)

Aero nut

I have a converted Ryobi 31cc engine that runs great as a gas engine with magneto that I would like top try this on. I know Pete at wackerengines has the glow adapter for it. What glow fuel and gas ratio do I mix to give this a try? I also have a 11mm carb I plan on using on the Ryobi. I would like to use this engine on a Tiger Moth that Nitroplanes has on theit web site.

scott14

Jstanton,

I'm in the middle of doing exactly what your asking... I have the wacker glow adapter, and the flywheel adapter. Both are well made.

I filed the lip around the spark plug off.... this let the adaptor set as deep in the cylinder as the spark plug did. Didn't want to lower the compression.

I mixed 2 parts gasoline to one part glow fuel. (I used 10% nitro / 18% oil glow fuel).

I would recommend using Aeronuts or Av8tor's fuel mix... I think mine has to much oil.

It fires right up with glow power, and I can remove the glow power and she purrs like a kitten.

I had trouble with it until i put in a saito 4stroke plug.

Also had to readjust the high/low needles.... I'm still working this part out, as mine runs rough at WOT.

This has been fun, and what a great idea to forgoe electronic ignition/and the weight!

After I get the WOT issue worked out, I'm going to try porting for more RPM......

SaCCaL72

My Feedback: (1)

Flyjoe540,
I would be more than glad to share my numbers. This is my first conversion so I am a little new at this so bare with me. For the few readings I took this past weekend when I ran my converted Ryobi I was getting around 7700rpm give or take with the stock Walbro 1 needle carb and a MAS 18x8. Now I just ordered a new 13.5mm Zama 2 needle carb from Scott(poco242) in hopes that it will give me better control of the rpms on both ends. I am hoping to get out this weekend to the field, weather permitting, to run it again with the original carb and maybe I can give you a little better readings then when I receive the new carb I am going to compare. Please keep us posted on your results also.

Being new to gas and conversions, I am really interested in this gas/glow hybrid thing. Can anyone explain this to me in laymens terms on how it works, what needs to be done, and the advantages of it if anyone gets a chance. I see you save some weight. Do you get any more power out of the engine? Thanks in advance for all you help...

I am still going to post some pix of my conversion, just been busy car shopping for my better half and finally got one last night, thank God. I should have some time soon to take and post them.

flyjoe540

SaCCal 72
i believe the power is the same but the weight is lower because you eliminate the fly wheel and mag ,therefor you get a better power to weight ratio,maybe a little more power.still a lower weight at the same power setting is just like adding more horses.
WOW,7700 rpm's thats pretty darn good ,did you run it as a weed wacker before conversion,or was that the first run? mine turned7500 rpm's at the end of it's first tank on a 18x6 unbalanced zinger ,I did not run it as a wacker and i have not optimized the timing yet. so it's still breaking in . got to seat those rings! I also need to get a bigger carb ,i'm using an old stock carb that i had from an engine that I scrapped (no more chrome on the cylinder) and i think it was a 28cc eng. so it might be small Idont know for sure.
engine #2 is still in the process, it will get the non advance ch unit ,alltho ,I may make a mechanical advance for it .the ch unit on engine #1 is actually for my previosly converted homie 45cc in a scratch built EDGE 540. 84" wing ,carbon fiber fuse ,but it came out tail heavy so i'm stuck with the mag ignition and used the ch on my ryobi ,it was my first laid up fuse ,might be my last . this one (RYOBI) is going in a yak 54 arf ,that edge flys real nice but it took 3 years and 2 attempts to complete, so now we'll do some arf's. I want to get a giles or something for eng.#2eventually.right now i'm building my son's trainer so time is an isue i'll do my best to post performance numbers as i run it , and make changes, i plan to modify it some so we'll see what it'll do

BillS

Ryobi RPM

I tacked a Ryobi in a standard string trimmer at 8100/8200. Used an electronic tack.

Bill

flyjoe540

Bills
now were talking ,thats what I want to see numbers in the 8-9000 rpm range! so, its still on a trimmer at least I know it will turn that fast , right .
I'm sure with the proper modifications the ryobi will run where I want it to ,its too close in stock configuration not to saccal72 is 300rpm from this goal with the stock single needle carb and mine is only 500 short on its first run. I'm confident it will get there. right now all I have done is port match ,polish the piston top and exhaust port , and smooth and polish the transfer ports .I plan on stuffing the case . maybe opening up the exhaust port some. mine is running about 130@ duration , I still need a bigger carb and I still need to fine tune the timing for optimum efficiency. heck, the ring's aint even seated yet!
with just the larger carb and maybee some bowman rings I could probably get 8000-8500with break in. ha, ha, ha (evil maniacal laughter)I want to stay as reasonable as possible and still get my numbers without a lot of over the top modifications.
man I'm having a ball with this stuff!!

BillS

I also took the trimmer head off and turned the engine 11,000 briefly to make sure the coil/magneto was not RPM limited. It easily would have turned 13,000 with no load.

Notes for the Ryobi that I am converting:

The Ryobi will turn 7500 and occasionally touch 7600 RPM with small Bennett muffler. The muffler is fairly loud.

The Ryobi will turn 7600 occasionally touching 7700 RPM with open exhaust.

Ran it with the air box off and it appears to drop a couple of hundred RPM.

First run. Box stock air box and muffler. 7200 RPM. 16x8 MA prop.

My Ryobi is a long shaft purchased new this spring (2005) as a weed eater for $60 or so.

Bill

Scott Ellingson

My Feedback: (146)

Aero nut,

What is the mix ratio you use for your fuel? Also does it run fine inverted? I did run a poulan 42cc on glow and it did run well upright. I didn't put it in a plane inverted so I don't know how it would have done. I used 1 part car fuel, 12% oil and 20% nitro. I mixed it with 2 gallons of methenol. I did need to enlarge the fuel passages to get enough fuel in. It would not go rich enough without doing that. I like your idea alot more. The carbs will take the alchohol no problem, but with your setup, they will not need to be modified. I have some 18cc'c I would love to try it on.

Scott

aero nut

My engine is mounted inverted and it flys great on either side (inverted flight or normal flight) as far as opening the fuel passages I don't think is necesary the only thing we do is to lift the fuel passage needle lever located underneath the diaphragm just a bit so that is not even with the carb's frame, by doing so it lets more fuel to flow through, also the low speed needle needs to be more open tan usual about 1 full turn, Also I would suggest you use your 20% nitro and 12% oil glow fuel and mix it with an equal amount of methanol to make it drop to 10% nitro and 6% oil then mix a 1 part of that blend with 2 parts gasoline that contains 3% oil and that will make a mix that will contain 3.3% nitro, 3% oil, 28% methanol and 66% gasoline (roughly) you should keep the nitro and oil content between 3-4 %. Try it on your poulan 42 and let us know how it runs we are curious to see how it performs on a bigger bore engine.
Being that you already have a mix of glow fuel with methanol I figure that you have a mix of about 6.6 % nitro, 4% oil and the rest methanol if you mix a 1 to 1 ratio with gasoline it will give you the 3.3% nitro, 2% oil, 44.7% methanol and 50% gasoline you would need to add about 1.5 % oil to make up for the dilution and this blend also works very well specialy on the 18CC engine. if you take 1/2 a galon of your methanol/glow fuel mix and 1/2 galon of gasoline you will need to add 1.92 oz of oil to your new blend.

flyjoe540

Bill
WOW 11000 rpm is a lot, and it didn't explode? well like I said it has the potential now I just need to figure out how
to make itdo what I want. is your test engine a duall or single ring? is it still your weed wacker ?or have you converted it?