Campgems

Capt,n be very careful with scrap pieces of Copper. There is a copper alloy containing Berylimum. Used in electrial stuff if I remember correctly. The stuff is very bad news in a machine shop. The dust and vapors from it are very toxic. Just to be safe, I refuse to turn copper unless it is new stock and I know what I'm working with. It would be wise to do some searches on Berylimum Copper and heed the recomendations for working with it.

Don

Campgems

Take a look in the JobshopHomeshop group on Yahoo Groups, and also on the Taigtools group. There was a lot of talk about spinning and some links to Ho-To's on the subject a few months back. Spinning aluminum to a spinner shape isn't likely to work. The aluminum just isn't that malibal so it would start cracking long before you could pull it into a cone. If you look at the aluminum spinners on the market now, they are all made from billet stock. A lot of machining and real tricky on a manual lathe. Of course on the CNC lathes, they spit out a couple a minute. The issue with turning one is getting a unifom wall thickness and a proper curve to the taper. Either can be done on a manual lathe, but both together is a chalenge.

Don

captinjohn

Campgems: Thanks for the warning about copper. What do you guys think about this tool group I noticed? I think it is H.F. brand. Capt,n

tim220225

My Feedback: (4)

Capt,n, I would think into the future before I invested too much money into tooling. Should you have any desire to move up to a bigger machine at some time I would buy tooling that can work on either machine today or be easily adapted tomorrow. It may cost a little more today but you will end up having to buy it again if you move up. I learned the hard way. I kept telling myself I won't move up this is all I need. But I do have this addiction and my name is...

Volfy

My Feedback: (23)

You probably won't find much scrap copper in boneyards. Apparently copper prices is going through the roof - for as much as $4 a pound. I just saw a news report here locally aboutcopper theft here in Houston. Is getting to be quite a problem for builders,as thieves would rip out copper plumbing and wires, sometimes in broad daylight. It is the same way nationwide.

Campgems

A taper attachment is used for long tapers, IE longer than you can get with the compound slide. The way they work is that you disengage the cross-slide scew nut so the slide is floating. Then you attach the taper attachment to the cross slide. When I was on my apprentiship in the way back when, one of my training sessions was using the taper attachment. I ended up with an awsome set of drift punches up to aroun 20" in length. As an apprentice, I wasn't allowed to do "real" work, so what I ended up doing was making tools, for me and about anyone else who saw me making something and wanted one.

For precession taper work though, IE fitting a flywheel to a crank, the compound is what you will use. The key is to cut both the OD, crank throw, and the ID, Flywheel with the same compound setting. The parts will not be interchangeable with other engines, but you are doing one off work anyway. Trying to cut an ID taper to match and existing part is no fun. You almost always end up with a slight miss match and that results in a wobbly fit. Cutting both with the same setting results in both parts being exactly the same angle, what ever it really is.

On the spinner, you could use a follower setup with the curve of the spinner. The trouble is that you would need two different profiles, one for the OD and one for the ID. Then you would have to devise some way to keep the relationship right when changing your setup between ID and OD cutting. Not an easy task. It can be done, but it is an advanced journyman's setup.

You have to pace yourself with the machining. It is as addicting as flying. And if you don't watch it, you won't have time for both.

Don

Volfy

My Feedback: (23)

Tim, resisting upgrading and hording tools is sage advice, but we all know it's futile. When I started with this metal working thing, my first mill was a HF mini mill (Sieg X2). I ended up upgrading to an X3 just a few month later - before I even had a chance to make chips with the X2. Now the X3 is dwarfed by the newly acquired square column ZAY7045. I told myself this is absolutely it... that is, until I can pawn off the smaller mills. Hmm... that knee mill sure looks nice.

Anybody want to buy a mini mill?

tim220225

My Feedback: (4)

Volfy, I am on my third lathe. And this IS the last one I will buy... When I was looking for a mill I considered the MicroMark and the Grizzly. Decided to take my own advice and went and bought a 1956 Bridgepoet J-Head. Best thing I ever did for myself. Saved $$$ because I don't have to upgrade. That is of course until I decide to get one of those CNC variety ones I see in my magazines. I wont do it, I wont do it. Hey they are on sale!!

Campgems

Just CNC the Bridge yourself. There are kits to replace the lead screws with anti-backlash screws and also motor mounts. You should be able to do a conversion with careful selection of parts for under a grand. It is a real kick seeing the mill dance by itself. I did my taig, and now I wished I had a larger mill, or actaully a 5 ft long CNC router table for cutting my own kits. I looked at going with a laser, but just couldn't justify the 5K plus required. SEE. SEE, I'm not a real tool junkie. No mater what the wife will say. Anyway, you don't want a car leaking oil on the garage floor when you can have a lathe and mill doing it properly.[8D]

Don

tim220225

My Feedback: (4)

Kits to convert??? Hmmmm. Where can I look at one or who supplies them? Then there is the computer and software unless my shop PC can do it. You are right in that you don't want a car leaking on the garage floor, but, you need your tools to do it!!

Volfy

My Feedback: (23)

My cars don't even ge a chance to leak oil in my garage - they are all parked outside! Right now, my 3-car garage is full of tools and home improvement supplies, wife can't even park her minivan in it. She isn't complaining too loudly yet, since it's winter season, but I have been given ultimatum.

Okay, back on topic. Actually, converting to CNC is the main reason I may keep my X3 small mill. CNC conversion price tags goes up almost exponentially as you go up in mill size. I can convert my small X3 mill to CNC for about $1500. For a RF45 style square column, full kits run between $3k-5k. Bridgeport-type knee mills goes up from there to the stratosphere. You can save money by scrouring info off the net and assemble/make parts yourself, of course. You do typically replace the stock leadscrews with ballscrews for CNC. Most hobbiest or home CNC conversion do use standard PCs for control.

Tim, try here for info on CNC for Bridgeport: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=157

captinjohn

Volfy: Before you buy any CNC stuff...let me check with a friend. He hooked up a Desktop computer to a 2 axis set-up for products he wanted to mass produce. He is very cost wise and he also knows how to write computer programs. UPDATE: I have turned my first piece of aluminum. yup...its going to be a prop adapter! On another note...why would it not be easy to disengage one of the Gears that make the cross feed run. Then install a separate variable speed electric motor with a gear or belt to the bottom (biggest gear) on the lathe? With the right electric motor you could have both directions of cross feed and also vary the speed. I am going to try and design it! Best Regards Capt,n

tim220225

My Feedback: (4)

Looks good Capt,n. Just be careful with what looks to be the 5 or 6 inches extending from the chuck. Take too healthy of a cut and the shaft will wander and concentricity will be lost. Better to work closer to the headstock. I always turn my adapters so that the hub face is closest to the chuck. That way I can leave it chucked for all operations except knurling and eliminate any chance of runout unless I screw something up. This is especially true when I bore a taper. Keep the pictures comming. I have a simple one to do for a guys Ryobi. I will try and get pictures up of my process.

captinjohn

tim220225: What I was going to do next was use a cut the piece off with cut-off tool close to the chuck. Then re-chuck it on a more concentric surface. Then finish cut to the about a 1 1/4 inch long and cut that off. Next drill and tap my threads. Tap by rotating chuck by HAND. I notice the stock I have must be about .020 over what I thought would be 1.000. That is nice!. What do you guys think? Capt,n

tim220225

My Feedback: (4)

If the raw stock is new or newer I have found it to be pretty close. So I cut what I can put through the chuck and start turning. You will turn it concentric then and when you cut it off you should be good. For a QC check you could take a V block and put the new hub in it and set that on any table and lower an indicator over it. Slowly turn the hub and watch the needle. Remember that you will be reading TIR or total indicator runout. Divide that in half for your actual runout. Should be very little at all. If you have runout check your lathe setup, if that is good then your tool is pushing the workpiece meaning too deep of a cut. Good luck and take your time. Try different ideas and develop YOUR methods and style. Remember there is no right or wrong way to run a job.

captinjohn

tim22025: What do you think of the tool group in the photo in post#128. Thanks Capt,n

tim220225

My Feedback: (4)

Capt,n

Try this link to Little Machine Shop. The owners name is Chris and he is very helpful.

http://littlemachineshop.com/product...ory=-139540609

Or try Enco. Here are their wedge and piston styles. I prefer wedge style as I have worn out the piston one I had. Enco's piston one is under a Franklin on sale. Just check the size against your top slide. Also if you get things from Enco they have free shipping over $99.00.

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INLMK32?PARTPG=INSRAR2

These are the tool posts for small lathes. He shows the hobby post from Phase II which is the brand I have used for a while. I would get no smaller than the AXA or 100 series as it will fit up to a 10 inch lathe well. Remember future upgrades? They say it will fit larger up to 12 inch but I did that and ended up getting the BXA or 200 series post. I have a keyed drill chuck but mostly use the keyless ones. Quicker to use and no key laying in the chip pan or headstock cover.

Campgems

There are a number of software packages for CNC work, some are way out of reason for what we might do. When I started with my conversion, I soon found that it was much more complex on the software side than the hardware side. Here is what I found and what I'm using now.

Cad software, I tried several and finally tried Rhino 3d. It is hands down the most user friendly and quickest to learn. It is extreamly powerful and has a very good support group. Not inexpensive though, somewhere around $500

Motion control. What I ended up using was TurboCNC. They have a really easy to learn and multi axis support program, actually two, Rel 3 and Rel 4. I haven't used Rel 4 much, and for a first time user, Rel 3 will more than suit you. It is a DOS based software and any old PC that has a math co-processor will work. Any of the cpu beyond the 486 series will work, and the 486DX will also work. In otherwords about any junk pc you might have laying around. There is a newer software, MACH3 and it runs under WinXP. It is low priced, and I am about to purchase it because it will do smoother curves and do them faster.

How, for the middle, the CAM stuff. For 2D-2 1/2D work there isn't much of anything that will beat Sheetcam. I drew up a master rod for the Pratt & whitney Wasp Jr engine and was able to generate all the code needed to machine out these guys, including drilling and reaming holes with Sheetcam. Easy, no very easy to learn. This is the best money I've spent on the project. Support is just an Email away and I've seen Les respond with three releases in a single day to fix major problems. He keeps two versions on his web site, a current stable version, and the development version. Just execelent support.

For 3D work, IE cowls, wheel pants, any complex curve work, Meshcam is a good choice. It is another very good and easy to learn package. It will not do 4 axis work, YET. Again a really good bang for the buck.

Turbocnc, Sheetcam, Meshcam, and Mach 3 all have Yahoo groups for support. Take a look through them and let them help make your choices. I feel I could have easilly spent 3 or 4 grand more on software and not have anything better than I have now. I think one of the packages offers a bundel with Rhino.

DIYCNC is a good Yahoo group to pick up pointers for conversions.

Don

tim220225

My Feedback: (4)

Well I got home early today and decided to make the hub for the Ryobi I mentioned in an earlier post. Digging through the material box I found a hub I had made for another engine a while back that the guy never paid for. All I needed to do was shorten it and tap it again for the Ryobi crank. Took a few pictures for your viewing pleasure. Re-working had been discussed and I mentioned the collet chuck I have and love. Here the picture will tell the story. I was able to chuck the piece on the prop side and had less than .001 TIR for runout. Then you can see the way I tap with the tailstock. The tap wrench mounts in the tailstock chuck and works itself along the shaft that holds it into the chuck when the handle is turned. Also shows the keyless drill chuck I use most. Another picture shows how I QC the work. I set this up on the Bridgeport table. Just lightly turn the shaft and watch the needle. Needle only moved a half thou or .0005 all the way around. Meaning I only have half that when running on each side of center. Next picture shows the hub on the Ryobi. Last picture shows the bench centers I bought a while back, I can use that to do the same thing as the V-block setup. I also have used it to check hubs when the plane engine has had a crash. Of course one could still use the V-block for that.

captinjohn

tim220225: Would another good check to make is.... secure (hold) the engine with back-plate to a flat surface (with backplate removed) ...and then take a reading for run out on hub. Is this do-able? Capt,n

tim220225

My Feedback: (4)

I suppose you could do that. Though I would think that if the bearings were dry or worn you could get a false reading. There are many things that could affect the reading. In my example the shaft or hub is isolated. V-blocks are pretty inexpensive and have many uses you will discover. You could also just prior to cutting off the part setup an indicator on the lathe and check it then. I have done it that way but the reading is hard on my machine anyway. The belt drive on my machine will cause the needle to jump when I turn the handwheel but then settles down. The way I showed is very smooth and soft. Again try different things and work with what you have until you decide what to buy or what you "need" to buy. I bet you dream about this stuff at night. Tim

captinjohn

Here is a few photos of some neat stuff fo doing those cconversions on Lathes. Capt,n

captinjohn

I added more neat photos...last 2 postings. This was a home made tool block. Look up this stuff and you can see how to make one. Capt,n

Volfy

My Feedback: (23)

To drive the feedscrew with a separate motor, you would have to somehow synchronize its speed against the main spindle motor. Otherwise, it is impossible to cut threads accurately. You will also have to regulate both motor speeds regardless of load, which will be very difficult to do, unless you set up two vector or sensor feedback VFDs and couple them together. The expense of that will be many times the cost of your lathe.

Staying with a hard mechanical gear linkage is much easier.

captinjohn

Volfy: I guess I should have added the feed rate was what I intended to make a way to vary easy too ...change Longitudinal feed speed while cutting/turning a piece. You could in a few seconds see what speed gives best finish. By re-engaging standard lathe gears would put you back into threading mode. Which I know has to be in sync...to cut threads. I am not looking to do much threading at all. A good die will do that for me....and faster. Capt,n ..... Edited to replace Longitudinal in place of cross feed!