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I did it! the lightest 56cc engine around

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Old 03-12-2003, 10:20 AM
  #26  
Daniel Ramsey
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Default I did it! the lightest 56cc engine around

Thanks for the info, I was tempted to make an offer at EBAY for a couple of those concrete saws, guess better to find the chainsaws instead. I would like the lightest better made engine anyway, please keep us informed on your progress, its better to hear the efforts of one who is trying new ideas and occassional setbacks, we all learn from them.
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Old 03-12-2003, 02:58 PM
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Default I did it! the lightest 56cc engine around

There's a Sachs Dolmar concrete saw that uses the heavier 5.8 crank with a different cylinder, comes out to about 4.8, runs well, is heavy......
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Old 03-12-2003, 04:42 PM
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Default I did it! the lightest 56cc engine around

Originally posted by Daniel Ramsey
Maybe a Stihl conversion is better than a Poulan, besides I'm german and for the most part anything made in Germany is rock solid and of the highest quality.
Aren't the Poulan blocks made in Germany also by Mahle?

I'm not German, but I'm a Deutchaphile just the same. Cut my automotive teeth working on and modifying VWs in the late '80s and '90s. Drove my '89 Golf GTI for 10yrs and some 200,000 miles. R&R'd just about every nut and bolt on that thing at least twice.

Sometimes though, you just have to wonder about them Germans. You know with all the FAG bearings and ASSMANN relays I've seen.
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Old 03-12-2003, 06:07 PM
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Default I did it! the lightest 56cc engine around

Poulan blocks may be German, but the cranks have Huskqvarna part numbers .. 29794, Made in Sweden
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Old 03-13-2003, 05:03 AM
  #30  
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Default I did it! the lightest 56cc engine around

bn120,
You and my Dad should get together. He has done the same thing to the 5.4 and the 6.8. I'll see if I can digg up some pics. Don't ask me the weight, I'm thinking 7.5lbs with the old ignition.

Later, Scott


6.8 Stihl
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Old 03-13-2003, 05:07 AM
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Default I did it! the lightest 56cc engine around

One more.
check out the mount!

If you want to see his gear reduction unit for a Mac 2.1 let me Know
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Old 03-13-2003, 06:27 AM
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Default I did it! the lightest 56cc engine around

Originally posted by rcflyguy_26
One more.
check out the mount!
Very nice! Very full scale!
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Old 03-13-2003, 06:42 AM
  #33  
bn120
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Default I did it! the lightest 56cc engine around

my 5.5 or 91cc engine will be going in my 1/3 staudacher and it only weighs 4.25 lb.I just dont think the 56cc will give me the power I want,the 91cc is only 1.25 lbs heavier but holly cow alot more power.


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Old 03-13-2003, 03:28 PM
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Default I did it! the lightest 56cc engine around

Soo. . it woudl be nice to see some RPM numbers.

Current Numbers for the BME50 and Da 50 are the Mejzlik 22-10 in the 7100-7200 range. With 12% more displacement, it would be logical to expect at least 3-500 rpm over those two engines.
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Old 03-14-2003, 05:41 AM
  #35  
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Default I did it! the lightest 56cc engine around

well I go to town to pick up a menz 22-10 prop tomorrow so I will have some real #s for you,I would get the mejzlik but I cant see flippin down 50.00 for a prop I dont need.I dont even have a use for a engine this small I just wanted to prove a point so we will see tomorrow.

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Old 03-15-2003, 04:34 AM
  #36  
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Default I did it! the lightest 56cc engine around

OK here are the actual #'s not inflated or exaderated for ego purposes just the real #'s

menz 22-10 6500
pro zinger 22-8 7300

I have really been looking at real #'s and have come to the conclusion that I have another 200 rpm on the da and zdz 50
and for those only interested in #'s the da is rated at 7000 rpm but only with there tuned exhaust and same with the zdz my #'s are without a muffler so if any one has the same prop an there 50cc post your #'s without muffler so I can see where I am really at.please post real #'s without muffler, I see so many people post unreal #'s trying boast about there engine but we only want those who can post real world #'s please.


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Old 03-15-2003, 10:16 AM
  #37  
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Default I did it! the lightest 56cc engine around

Hate to break it to you. . the BME and DA BOTH turn in excess of 6900-7000 with the Menz-s 22-10. Getting RPM figures with any Zinger is like using a flat prop. they flex so much that an 8 or 10 pitch loses 1-2 inches of pitch at max rpm.

Get a menz or Mejzlik and its a good RPM reading.

BME and DA are still ahead, if the Menz is your benchmark.
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Old 03-15-2003, 12:37 PM
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Thomas Williams
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Default I did it! the lightest 56cc engine around

Kris,you need to take a look at the rpm figures on a post zdz 50 and da 50 data- da 50 22/10 6000
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Old 03-15-2003, 02:50 PM
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Default I did it! the lightest 56cc engine around

Originally posted by Kris^
Hate to break it to you. . the BME and DA BOTH turn in excess of 6900-7000 with the Menz-s 22-10. Getting RPM figures with any Zinger is like using a flat prop. they flex so much that an 8 or 10 pitch loses 1-2 inches of pitch at max rpm.

Get a menz or Mejzlik and its a good RPM reading.

BME and DA are still ahead, if the Menz is your benchmark.
Hate to break it to you, but if the Zinger flexes so much how come the Mejzlik 18-6 and the Zinger 18-6 turn the same rpm (9000) on my G26?? Voodoo ?
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Old 03-15-2003, 06:06 PM
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Default I did it! the lightest 56cc engine around

Thankyou Tomas I was looking at that thread also and I can take it as real rpm I also looked at rcfaq rpm data.

does anyone have any rpm #'s to add

I like the pro zinger

granted the standard jzingers with square tip is another story

I to can quote anything here about rpm #'s I have seen but we only want those with the engines that have these props and without muffler.this is the only way to get acurate info.and this is all we are interested in true and acurate info.It is so hard to find acurate info on here sometimes.


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Old 03-16-2003, 12:02 AM
  #41  
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Default I did it! the lightest 56cc engine around

Kris^,
How much does a BME 50 cost in comparison with this conversion? I guess it's nice not to have to worry about money.
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Old 03-16-2003, 12:05 AM
  #42  
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Default I did it! the lightest 56cc engine around

The MA Scimitar and Mejzlik 18-8's both turned within 100 rpm of eachother on my BGX-1, and flew about the same (or so it seemed) I tried a Zinger, just to see what would happen, and it turned about 200 rpm faster but the planes performance suffered badly. It definitely did not pull as hard.

Same goes for my RCS180. . the Zinger 18-8 spins a tad faster than my Scimitar, but the plane definitely performs better with the Scimitar.



As for the test mentioned. .I find it REALLY hard to believe you'll see 1000 rpm drop by changing the pitch by 2" between a 22-8 and 22-10. IN a recent series of posts (da is here) http://www.rcuniverse.com/showthread...7&pagenumber=2 the person with the engine lists 7100 with a Mejzlik 22-10 and over 6700 with other props tested on the standard DA muffler (after getting the muffler to replace the one he had).

It's not me posting these numbers, but several people on different occasions. all you have to do is research it a bit. given that DA itself claims rpm figures in this range, and it is backed up by independent users with barely broken in engines, I'd say that a consistent and repeatable set of power numbers has been etablished for the DA50.

Call it 7100+ with a Mejzlik 22-10. . and in the 6700+ range with a Menz 22-10. That's whats being reported, and unless you want to call everyone who is sending in numbers a liar (which is what is being hinted at here), then I guess maybe they are telling the truth and we now have a broad-based spectrum of users agreeing on what the DA will turn with these props..
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Old 03-16-2003, 12:15 AM
  #43  
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Default I did it! the lightest 56cc engine around

I guess the cost depends on if you have access to a mill, heavy duty grinder and a few metal-removal tools that cost a good bit. . .then if you buy an Echo 50cc motor brand new, you have to factor that cost in also. conversion "kits" (such as those from Carr and B&B) go for about $60-125, depending on options, and adding a C&H ignition is another $100 or so.

Soo. . with a "kit" and ignition, and the cost of the motor itself. . how much do you have invested? 100+125+125 (or so, for the motor) is $350.

Now, if you just happen to have the motor laying around (where DID it come from???).. and an ignition falls out of a tree at your feet, AND you happen to work at, or have access to, a machine shop (where your time costs very little to YOU), I'm sure you can build one pretty cheaply, although I doubt anyone would buy this 56cc engine for its apearance, and if comparing it to a Da, BME, Brison, or Taurus for power, its a bit short in that category. Soo. . is it a marketable commodity? Could you sell it for $150 profit if you had to buy a bunch of them and modify them?

Not really a very accurate comparison of cost, is it?
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Old 03-16-2003, 12:18 AM
  #44  
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Default I did it! the lightest 56cc engine around

Kris^,
Look at post #3. Total of $175, including the ignition. I'd say your comparison was not very accurate.
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Old 03-16-2003, 12:37 AM
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Default I did it! the lightest 56cc engine around

please note. . didn't BUY the motor to convert it (or DID he. . ) and made all the parts in a machine shop instead of purchasing them.

Lets comapre apples and apples. .

lets see. . buy a new 56cc motor. . $125??
PAY to have it machined and weight removed $75???
and add parts necessary to make it fit our planes . .$75???

and igniton $125. . .

There's 400, easy.

contact your local yokel machinist for prices for his work and for fabricating the things you need for the motor. . .You see. .. not everyone has a 56cc motor just "laying around"


Now. . granted. . this is not a bad little conversion of a weedy/chainsaw motor. But everyone wants it to be something it's not. . It's NOT a DA. It may be a few ounces lighter. . it may be less expensive. . it does not make the same amount of power, though, at 12% larger displacement. And, most important, it does not have a warranty or free repair if you break it.

How much is a warranty and future support and repair worth? I'd say. . every penny of th price difference in the two engines.

And NO, I can't afford a new BME or DA50 .. otherwise I'd already have one (and then I could be called a liar for posting rpm figures for it)
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Old 03-16-2003, 12:51 AM
  #46  
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Default I did it! the lightest 56cc engine around

Look again at post #3. He picked up the engine for ten bucks, and I bet you could find that engine for sub-$50 if you look.

As far as everyone wanting this to be a DA, I believe you have been the only person trying to compare performance figures. Read post#1. This engine was converted to show it could be built light, not necessarily more powerful than the current $500+ BME engines. I'd call it a major success, not a failure because it turns a few hundred less RPM than the latest and greatest engine of equal weight.
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Old 03-16-2003, 01:28 AM
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Default I did it! the lightest 56cc engine around

I think its an achievement in American ingenuity, do we have to be enslaved to buy an already made engine, thats identical to hundreds of others? Is it so wrong to challenge those that are supposedly at their very best? If we didn't we wouldn't be advancing technology. Its the free spirited tinkerers like us that make advancements, big corporations do it only to stay competitive and thats USUALLY when they are challenged by different, better, cheaper designs.
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Old 03-16-2003, 01:29 AM
  #48  
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Default I did it! the lightest 56cc engine around



Those of us who are doing engine conversions couldn't care less about a warranty. If the ignition fails, I'll send it to Terry and let him fix it, if I smoke a piston and rings I'll go down to the local saw shop and get replacements for about 1/3 the price of the fancy motor, if I bore it straight in wide open, I'll build another motor. Sure the DA is pretty, but I can't see it under my cowl while I'm flying. So the DA or ZDZ hovers a 16lb plane at half throttle and my Poulan 54 has to use 5/8 throttle, it doesn't bother me. But I'm not paying $400 more so I can say I have a warranty.
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Old 03-16-2003, 01:36 AM
  #49  
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Default I did it! the lightest 56cc engine around

I just found this thread today and read thru the whole thing at once. Being as Kris^ seems to be in such a hurry to pick this effort apart that he's missing out on the facts, I would suggest that he also re-read the whole thing.

As Ryan pointed out, bn120 did buy the engine ( connected to a saw) for $10. Those who are familiar with gas engines understand that they don't experience much wear compared to nitro engines. In fact, an engine that has seen a life as a well used chainsaw is probably still in the prime of it's life. If you are insisting on comparing this to a "new" engine, you are begging the question wrt why someone would do this.

Now, as for the power comparison, bn120 is looking to compare numbers without mufflers. Are the numbers Kris^ is using also from a bench run without muffler? I doubt it. That wouldn't be an accurate comparison.

Looks like a machine shop was used to make the prop adapter - could that be bought somewhere - in a conversion kit or?? Otherwise, it looks to be a job for a bench grinder. bn120 - can you fill us in on the general processes used in this modification process. What was done on general use tools like a bench grinder and what takes big $$ tools?

Warranty: Since you do have to buy the electronic ignition ( if just for comparison purposes) that part will of course be covered by warranty. As for the warranty on the rest of the engine being worth the price difference of $100-150 on an engine that you know inside & out, and can get a whole other parts engine for $10-50, I don't see the point.

Now, if the real price difference is not worth your time - that's a reasonable concern. But, it is a hobby ( something to waste your time on ) isn't it?
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Old 03-16-2003, 02:43 AM
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Default Conversion Cost

I found a 5+ cubic inch Husqvarna chainsaw short block (no carb or mag coil) in the Goodwill store in Flagstaff for $4.95..Excellent condition...A hub made on my Enco lathe will cost me about $2.00 for some 2" diameter 2024 aluminum bar stock..The mount will be made from 4" diameter 6061 round bar stock, about $5.00 worth, bored on the same Enco lathe...I make ignition, so that will cost me **** ( I could tell ya but I'd have to kill ya) dollars, with a coil bought from C&H, about $20.00....A new Walbro SDC 80 carb is about $41.00..The carb insulator block is made from G10 epoxyboard, about $22.00 a square foot, so about $.75 worth for that....
Lets see, $4.95 +$2.00 + $5.00 +$20.00 + $41.00 + $.75 is $73.75 and a few hours labor.Weight ? 5 lbs more or less,,,.....Warranty ? Lifetime on the ignition, chainsaws never wear out, not needed on the carb...Cheap enough ? It CAN be done....
$500 + dollars for a 50 cc ? NEVER.......
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