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GAS/GLOW HOW TO....

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Old 04-06-2011, 12:33 PM
  #351
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ORIGINAL: spaceworm

Interesting. But, 1:4 is 25%. 20% would be 1:5. I have some Klotz syn plus castor. Did you have to leave the glow plug ignited or would it run with it depowered? Thanks.

Sincerely, Richard
I originally thought the same thing, but 1 plus 4 is 5, and 1/5 of that is 20%.
Does ethanol react the same as methanol as a catalyst with the glow plug?

FR
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Old 04-06-2011, 02:10 PM
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Yes, of course you are right. I am used to mixing 4 oz oil to 1 gallon gas for 1:32 and never calculated the percentage. Thanks. No. ethanol does not react to the platinum catalistcally like methanol does. So, to keep the plug lit you need methanol. However, gas with ethanol mixed with methanol glow fuel does work.

Regards, Richard
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Old 04-06-2011, 06:39 PM
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Default RE: GAS/GLOW HOW TO....

but the rub is that my E85-Castor fuel DID run without the plug energized
.... but the experimenting ended before I could say for sure
if it was using the catalyst 'glow' effect (doubtful), if it was firing from the plug being a hotspot, or if it was just dieseling from running hot.
Either way, I did run it thru some 8oz tanks of fuel on the bench, but some of those tanks were surgey while others ran smooth.

I like the GGL concept,
but the local shops think I'm speaking chinese when I ask about 10/10 RCCar fuel
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Old 04-06-2011, 06:51 PM
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Default RE: GAS/GLOW HOW TO....

See if you can get 20/20 and then dilute it 1:1 with straight methanol from a speed shop. This will give you 10/10.

Good luck

Richard
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Old 04-06-2011, 09:29 PM
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Default RE: GAS/GLOW HOW TO....

The 10% nitro, 10% oil glow fuel is commonly called "Glow fuel for Large Super Tiger Engines." All the major fuel manufacturers make it, though you may need to print out a webpage to take to the hobby shop to prove it to them....

As mentioned, 20% nitro, 20% glow fuel is easier to find, and if you mix it 1:1 with pure methanol from a speed shop, you've got your 10/10.

AV8TOR
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Old 04-07-2011, 07:58 AM
  #356
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Default RE: GAS/GLOW HOW TO....

Straight ethanol will run on a glow plug. The plug has to be a hot one. Quite a few people have done it. I tried in a FS-52 I ran on E85 and spark, and just put in a OS F plug. It ran, but not well. I didn't put any more time into it, but I'm sure I could have gotten it to run. OS has a line of glow engines that run on ethanol. They are not sold in the US.
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Old 04-07-2011, 09:16 AM
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Default RE: GAS/GLOW HOW TO....

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ORIGINAL: gkamysz

Straight ethanol will run on a glow plug. The plug has to be a hot one. Quite a few people have done it. I tried in a FS-52 I ran on E85 and spark, and just put in a OS F plug. It ran, but not well. I didn't put any more time into it, but I'm sure I could have gotten it to run. OS has a line of glow engines that run on ethanol. They are not sold in the US.

Would the OS engines running on ethanol be using a different glow plug than we are used to using with methanol? One that reacts to ethanol?

Thanks.

Sincerely, Richard/Club SAITO #635
"Always On, Slightly Off"
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Old 04-07-2011, 12:07 PM
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Default RE: GAS/GLOW HOW TO....

I don't know, but I doubt there is a difference. People are doing it running regular plugs.
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Old 04-07-2011, 02:13 PM
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Default RE: GAS/GLOW HOW TO....


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ORIGINAL: gkamysz

I don't know, but I doubt there is a difference. People are doing it running regular plugs.

Peoplle are acceptably running ethanol in their glow engines with regular plugs we use with methanol? What then is the difference in the OS engines sold for the use with ethanol that are not sold here? I think it is accepted physical fact that platinum does not react well to ethanol like it does with methanol. Any idea what makes the engines run with ethanol? I am very curious. Thanks.

Sincerely, Richard/Club SAITO #635
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Old 04-07-2011, 02:22 PM
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Default RE: GAS/GLOW HOW TO....

I know that OS modified the heads on the engines they were trying on ethanol. I assume to raise the compression. I figured it didn't work out since I never saw them come out here after the first couple of "primer" ads....

For the engines that will run on ethanol with a glow plug, I can only guess that with enough compression and the right glow plug, enough heat is generated to make the glow plug glow enough for combustion to occur. In my first experiments with Gas/Glow in gasoline engines, I did not have good luck with ethanol. Poor running characteristics in general, and very poor without the glow plug lit. Others have had various levels of luck trying it in glow engines.

For the Gas/Glow system used in engines originally designed for gasoline, the mixture we came up with is the hot deal. It works. Here years later I am still flying several Gas/Glow planes, my favorite being my 50cc homemade (from Echo parts) twin. Runs flawlessly on Gas/Glow. The only negative is that if I happen to not use a good follow through stroke on the hand start, it will sometimes start and run backwards.

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Old 04-07-2011, 04:55 PM
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Default RE: GAS/GLOW HOW TO....


Quote:
ORIGINAL: spaceworm


Quote:
ORIGINAL: gkamysz

I don't know, but I doubt there is a difference. People are doing it running regular plugs.

Peoplle are acceptably running ethanol in their glow engines with regular plugs we use with methanol? What then is the difference in the OS engines sold for the use with ethanol that are not sold here? I think it is accepted physical fact that platinum does not react well to ethanol like it does with methanol. Any idea what makes the engines run with ethanol? I am very curious. Thanks.

Sincerely, Richard/Club SAITO #635
"Always On, Slightly Off"
High compression engines like SuperTigers seem to work. It may be like some engines from Europe run on no nitro best. Moki is another very hgh compression engine.
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Old 04-08-2011, 07:18 AM
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Default RE: GAS/GLOW HOW TO....

Someone over at Great Planes told me the OS ethanol fuel would be taxed as consumable alcohol in the US due to the contents. I can only assume there is no denaturant, even though you'd think the castor content would prevent most people from consuming it. That would make cost prohibitive and likely require liquor licensing and such. So they decided not to import the OS Bioethanol to the US. With E85 fairly available I'm a bit surprised they decided against it, but warranty work for improperly mixed fuel/oil would be problematic.

Regular glow plugs react with ethanol, but the reaction is not as vigorous. In the past I had trouble finding references to such, but found some today.

A test would cost a few glowplugs if you don't already have them, and a gallon of E85 will go a long way. Easy to do your homework here.
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Old 04-10-2011, 03:32 PM
  #363
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Default RE: GAS/GLOW HOW TO....

someone gave me an Italian made Super Tiger 90, it needs a complete rebuild, I would like to find all Italian made parts for it (Crank, Rod, Piston & Sleeve),,

before I got it I was thinking I would put it in my For Star 60 (just enough power ) but once in the hand I found it's a heavy little sucker with it's 2 piece Case,,
it came off an old and still flying Super Sport (71" span), a much more sturdier Plane than a For Star 60 with the same Span,,

then,,, hey,,, I'm thinking it would make a good candidate for the Gas/Glow Mix, but what do I put it in ??

Jim
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Old 04-10-2011, 03:51 PM
  #364
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Default RE: GAS/GLOW HOW TO....

There are two Super Tiger G-90's with the two piece case, the S90 and the S90K. The "S" has a round machined head and the "K" has a squarish head.

The "K" and "G" heads will interchange but the "G" has a one piece crankcase.
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Old 04-10-2011, 04:13 PM
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Default RE: GAS/GLOW HOW TO....

looks like a "K"

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Old 04-10-2011, 04:27 PM
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Default RE: GAS/GLOW HOW TO....


Quote:
ORIGINAL: the Wasp

someone gave me an Italian made Super Tiger 90, it needs a complete rebuild, I would like to find all Italian made parts for it (Crank, Rod, Piston & Sleeve),,

before I got it I was thinking I would put it in my For Star 60 (just enough power ) but once in the hand I found it's a heavy little sucker with it's 2 piece Case,,
it came off an old and still flying Super Sport (71'' span), a much more sturdier Plane than a For Star 60 with the same Span,,

then,,, hey,,, I'm thinking it would make a good candidate for the Gas/Glow Mix, but what do I put it in ??

Jim
There are exceptions, but typically the gas/glow approach is used with engines designed for gasoline. Their use is better for gas/glow because they have roller or needle bearings on the con rod ends versus plain or brass or bronze busings on typical glow engine connecting rods. The fuel used most for gas/glow does not have enough oil to properly lube plain busing engine con rods. There are conversion resources for fitting needle bearings to engines like the ST 90s. Ken Lambert comes first to mind. These engines usually are fitted with ignition systems and a spark plug. I suppose there is no reason they could not also be used with gas/glow. Comments anyone?

Sincerely, Richard
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Old 04-10-2011, 04:33 PM
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Default RE: GAS/GLOW HOW TO....

did you miss my other post ?? ,,, burning Gasoline in a Tunder Tiger 120 (ignition) with a Bushing'ed rod



check this out,, click on the link below,, see "CONVERSIONS" click on the "Thunder Tiger Pro 1.20 Gasoline Conversion",,

now if this baby will run Gasoline with an Ignition, and run on Glow Fuel with a Glow Plug it should run on the Gas and Glow Mix with a Glow Plug,,

that's something to look into

http://tech.flygsw.org/
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Old 04-10-2011, 04:36 PM
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Default RE: GAS/GLOW HOW TO....

yes,, you will need the correct anount of oil
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Old 04-10-2011, 05:03 PM
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Default RE: GAS/GLOW HOW TO....

Yes, that was my point, you do need the correct amount of oil to run plain bushing engines. What percentage oil in the gas/glow mix have you found to be acceptable? And what brand/type oil do you add to the base gas/oil formula to get the higher oil percentage? Thanks

Sincerely, Richard
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Old 04-10-2011, 05:12 PM
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Default RE: GAS/GLOW HOW TO....

well I myself have not tried the Gas/Glow Mix yet, I have some things that are going on, and depending on what happens I may try the Mix in a Gasser Heli,, I also have a Super Tartan 22cc Glow that I would like to burn the Mix in, but it will all come down to what happens in the next few weeks

Jim
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Old 04-10-2011, 05:40 PM
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Default RE: GAS/GLOW HOW TO....


Quote:
ORIGINAL: the Wasp

I would put it in my For Star 60 (just enough power ) but once in the hand I found it's a heavy little sucker with it's 2 piece Case,,
Jim
I wouldn't worry about the weight in a Four Star. I've found they generally need nose weight anyhow. I'm flying a Four Star 120 with a 40cc gasser, and it balanced perfect.
I notice this BME .90 has needle bearings on the con rod, but others are running without with extra oil.
http://www.bmeengine.com/engines.htm

Rod S
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Old 04-10-2011, 06:50 PM
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Default RE: GAS/GLOW HOW TO....

I have a BME modfied Super Tiger .90 that I run on the Gas/Glow mix and it runs great. It does so because it now has needle bearings on the rod, and therefore is ok with the 32:1 oil ratio of the Gas/Glow mix.

As mentioned, the Gas/Glow mix is intended for engines that were originally for gasoline, or if they are glow engines, that they have been modified to have roller bearings on the rod such as the BME version or the various Super Tiger conversions done by Ken Lambert.

I feel that a Glow engine run on the Gas/Glow mix without needle bearings would be under lubricated and subject to failure. You can't just throw more oil into the mix to make up for this problem, as that throws the percentages of methanol, nitro, gas, etc. off. If you want to develop a mix that will reliably run in an unmodified glow engine, that is fine, but it is a new experiment not operating within the guidelines of the Gas/Glow setup as invented, tested, and in successful use.

Once again, the 32:1 (approximate) oil mix of the Gas/Glow mix is not sufficient to run an unmodified Glow type engine. I have heard of people running glow engines on pretty lean oil ratios, but not as lean as 32:1. The lean oil ratios are tricky, and all it takes is one slightly lean run to cause damage with so little oil getting to that bushed rod.

Feel free to experiment, but know going in that it is just that, a new experiment. The Gas/Glow system was devised for engines originally intended for gasoline, or for glow engines that have been modified to have a roller bearing rod interface.

Good luck,
AV8TOR
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Old 04-10-2011, 07:25 PM
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Default RE: GAS/GLOW HOW TO....

LOL wow this is getting crazy LOL

here are my numbers for 1 gallon (128oz), with 16% Oil/ 20.4ozl ,

42.6 oz "15% Nitro 16% Oil off the shelf Plane fuel"

71.5 oz "Gasoline"

add 13.6 oz "Oil"

42.6 + 71.5 + 13.6 = 127.7oz

dang, I lost .03 oz and I can't find it

PS,
ummm,, now if you did that with 30% Nitro you would have 10% Nitro per Gallon
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Old 04-10-2011, 08:58 PM
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Default RE: GAS/GLOW HOW TO....

I just don't want someone getting the idea that Gas/Glow is fine to use in a stock glow engine, and ending up ruining their engine. Experimentation is how we came up with the Gas/Glow mix, and experimentation is part of the crux of engine conversions by its very nature. If someone comes up with a mix that works well in an unmodified glow engine, that's great!

One thing that will interest me is how well the glow plug will hold up with the increased oil content, combined with the hotter burning gasoline. Go for it guys... get those experiments going and let us know how they turn out.

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Old 04-12-2011, 10:47 PM
  #375
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Default RE: GAS/GLOW HOW TO....

And boy, how did we experimented!!!!!
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