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GAS/GLOW HOW TO....

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Old 09-14-2011, 06:38 AM
  #401
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Default RE: GAS/GLOW HOW TO....

Has anyone tried running 2 stroke oil for gasoline in the mix instead of the glow fuel and just adding methanol to make 1 of the three gallons? I'm wondering if it will stay in suspension since there are 2 gallons of gasoline in the mix.
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Old 09-14-2011, 09:02 AM
  #402
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Default RE: GAS/GLOW HOW TO....

Depends on the oil. Not all oils work with Methanol. Plus you would be losing the advantage of the nitro. The percentage of nitro in the mix isn't large, but it is helpful in power, idle, and throttle response.

The most common question in this Gas/Glow thread is about doing the fuel mix differently. I just don't get it. The mix works. I know some hobby shops don't carry the 10/10 fuel, and give you a dumb look when you ask for it, but all the major fuel manufacturers make the fuel. Byrons, Sig, Morgan Fuels.... all of them. It is called "glow fuel for large Super Tiger engines" quite often. As I have mentioned before, if the hobby shop gives you a hard time, just download the manufacturers website info, print it out, and show it to the hobby shop manager. Tell him THIS is the fuel I want....

20% oil - 20% nitro fuel is a bit easier to find. You can mix one gallon of that fuel with one gallon of pure methanol to get two gallons of 10/10 fuel. Methanol is often sold at auto speed shops and/or race tracks. Go Kart racing outlets often have it too.

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Old 09-14-2011, 01:54 PM
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Default RE: GAS/GLOW HOW TO....

AV8TOR

No doubt it works. I am very excited about this. I have seen the videos. I have 20/20 and methanol and nitro. I was just curious if anyone had used an oil for gasoline. My old mind thought that if the oil in the glow fuel would stay in solution that maybe my Amsoil Sabre would also.

I have already bought the spark plug to glow plug adapters.

I am very appreciative of all the work you have put into this. I was amazed at the videos of engines running on this mix.

As you know, us engine fanatics are a strange breed and are curious. I guess you are too or you wouldn't have put all the untold hours into developing the gas/glow mixture. I know I would never have thought of this.

As you strongly suggested earlier I'm going to run my engine on your suggested mixture. Don't take my question negatively. I was just curious.

Thanks again for all your hard work! If we were not curious we would all go electric! God I hope we don't! That would take all the fun out of it.

Rex
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Old 09-14-2011, 01:55 PM
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Default RE: GAS/GLOW HOW TO....

PS,

I did not intend to leave the nitro out. That was an oversight on my part not to mention it.
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Old 09-14-2011, 03:55 PM
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Default RE: GAS/GLOW HOW TO....

See post #398 [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8009384/mpage_16/key_/tm.htm#]here[/link] for Redline Oil's response to using their oil with this mix.

I mix my own fuel had similar thoughts as we go to great lengths to use an oil in our gas engines that provides good protection and minimal carbon buildup.

So I don't want to use a fuel with an unknown oil that will not protect the engine as well or burn cleanly.

I ended up purchasing a gallon of Redline's Alcohol premix oil to use in my gas/glow experiments.

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Old 09-14-2011, 05:06 PM
  #406
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Default RE: GAS/GLOW HOW TO....

Sorry if I came off a bit strong there....

You guys do realize that if you use 10/10 fuel, or create it out of 20/20 fuel cut with methanol, that you do not add any other oil right? The oil in the glow fuel, mixed to the Gas/Glow specs is all the oil the engine needs. It comes out close to a 32:1 oil mix that way. We don't add any extra oil to the mixture.

And as far as "electrics"... bah humbug!! I am so tired of hearing about electrics. That's all the magazines write about and advertise any more. I have 3 small electric planes to goof around with in the evening, AFTER we are done flying the fire breathing REAL airplanes, but it almost seems like we are being "force fed" electric garbage in the media!!

"There I was, standing on my soap box preaching, when....."

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Old 09-14-2011, 05:23 PM
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Default RE: GAS/GLOW HOW TO....

I understand perfectly what you're saying.

I personally do not want to rely on a "glow" oil to protect my gas engine.

I mix my own fuel so i looked at available ingredients that i can use to make the same formula (67% gas, 27% Meth, 3% Nitro, 3% oil).

The trick is to find an oil that is soluable in gas and methanol.

I go to great lengths to use an ester based synthetic for gas and i want the same protection with gas/glow.

Redline say their 2-stroke racing oil "might" be soluble depending on the gasoline used, while their Alcohol Premix oil is the same oil without the added detergents and WILL work fine.
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Old 09-14-2011, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: CustomPC

I understand perfectly what you're saying.

I personally do not want to rely on a ''glow'' oil to protect my gas engine.

I mix my own fuel so i looked at available ingredients that i can use to make the same formula (67% gas, 27% Meth, 3% Nitro, 3% oil).

The trick is to find an oil that is soluable in gas and methanol.

I go to great lengths to use an ester based synthetic for gas and i want the same protection with gas/glow.

Redline say their 2-stroke racing oil ''might'' be soluble depending on the gasoline used, while their Alcohol Premix oil is the same oil without the added detergents and WILL work fine.
So let me get this straight... you don't want to rely on glo oil for your gas engine. 'Glo oil' is used due to the fact that the glo fuel is methanol (alcohol). BUT alcohol premix by Redline IS ok? There may be a difference in quality maybe but the basis of your objection has no merit due to the fact that both oils are designed to work with alcohol. The glo fuel I mix does not separate. I recall reading somewhere that some brands might and it is advised to initially check your brand for separation. I agree with using the best stuff available. I do that too, but so far there have been no adverse affects with the 'glo oil' reported. Just sayin.
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Old 09-14-2011, 06:39 PM
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Default RE: GAS/GLOW HOW TO....

I don't want to rely on the typical Poly Alkalene Glycol (sp?) based oils often used in glow fuels such as coolpower and klotz. These are nothing more than relabled air conditioner oils. I don't trust them in my glow engines without the support of some castor so i won't put them in a gas engine.

I have not read anywhere the long term wear and effects of carbon buildup with gas/glow using these oils. Is it an issue?

When i refer to Redline, there are two separate products, 2-Stroke Racing Oil and 2-Stroke Alcohol Premix.

Both have the same core ester based lubrication ingredients, however the Alcohol oil does not have the detergents because methanol is a cleaner burning fuel.
Redline say the Racing oil "might" be soluble in a Gas/Glow mix and the alcohol oil definitely "is" soluble.

It remains be to seen whether the lack of detergents in the Alcohol oil will allow the 66% gasoline in the mix to create too much carbon.

I think i'm really overthinking this and just need to get out and fly.
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Old 09-15-2011, 01:01 AM
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Default RE: GAS/GLOW HOW TO....

Quote:
ORIGINAL: av8tor1977

Sorry if I came off a bit strong there....

You guys do realize that if you use 10/10 fuel, or create it out of 20/20 fuel cut with methanol, that you do not add any other oil right? The oil in the glow fuel, mixed to the Gas/Glow specs is all the oil the engine needs. It comes out close to a 32:1 oil mix that way. We don't add any extra oil to the mixture.

And as far as ''electrics''... bah humbug!! I am so tired of hearing about electrics. That's all the magazines write about and advertise any more. I have 3 small electric planes to goof around with in the evening, AFTER we are done flying the fire breathing REAL airplanes, but it almost seems like we are being ''force fed'' electric garbage in the media!!

''There I was, standing on my soap box preaching, when.....''

AV8TOR
electrics are ok, but i too like the gas/fuel engs. fly r/c mag. is covering more and more electric stuff, so i called them and complained about it as there is an electrics only mag. already called back yard flyer. i told them i am dropping my subscription to their mag. and i am.
anyone need any quality gas to glow plug adapters, with a no leak gasket, either 14mm or 10mm to 1/4 32 check my ad in gasoline eng section or PM me.
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Old 09-15-2011, 06:21 AM
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Default RE: GAS/GLOW HOW TO....

av8tor,

I was not planning on adding oil to the glow/gas mix. I was only trying to find out if anyone has used a mixture that has the methanol, nitro and 2 stroke oil (For Gasoline) mixed to the same percentages as glow fuel in place of the glow fuel.

Rex
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Old 09-15-2011, 10:12 AM
  #412
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Default RE: GAS/GLOW HOW TO....

I ran the home-made Echo 50cc twin on my Giant Stik on Gas/Glow for a couple of years. I couldn't tell you how many hours, but suffice to say many flights. Then I decided to pull the engine apart and soup it up a bit with some revised porting. When I did so, there was virtually no carbon build up, and no signs of wear. I ported the engine, and put it back together. (Gained 700 rpms!)

But the point is, it ran for a rather good test period, and upon disassembly I saw no carbon build up nor discernible wear in the engine. I have several others running on Gas/Glow, and don't notice any carbon buildup on the glow plugs when I check them....

The oil in the glow fuel is good enough for a bushed rod running very high rpms, in my opinion it is fine for our converted Gas/Glow engines too, and experience seems to prove that out.

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Old 09-15-2011, 10:21 AM
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Default RE: GAS/GLOW HOW TO....

Two things I forgot to mention... One is that somewhere I read that if you have any mix problems, oil not staying in suspension, etc., that it can often be cured by adding a little acetone to the mix. I'm no chemist, but apparently the OP about the acetone was, as he explained why that worked.

Secondly, I have never written to complain to a magazine in my life, but this crazy overdone electric problem with the magazines has me writing to them and complaining. I think more of us need to do so. The thing is, I don't understand it either. They sometimes have as much as 90% electric coverage, as if EVERYONE is flyiing electric and want the coverage. But I go to several flying fields, and the electric flyers are a VERY small minority flying. Often times there are no electric planes present at all!

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Old 09-15-2011, 10:22 AM
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Default RE: GAS/GLOW HOW TO....

That convinces me. I suppose the methanol may also contribute to the cleanliness of the engine.

Any idea how much the fuel consumption goes up on glow gas? I'm guessing 15% or so based on a rough calculation in my mind on the btu difference in the methanol.
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Old 09-15-2011, 10:28 AM
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Default RE: GAS/GLOW HOW TO....

That's probably a good "guess-timate" on the consumption. Perhaps a touch more.

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Old 09-15-2011, 10:31 AM
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Default RE: GAS/GLOW HOW TO....

I have a bunch of gas planes but I do have one electric glider and I really enjoy the laid back flying I get with the plane. I have recently learned a lot about the electric realm and think that electrics are here to stay as far as I can see but there will always be gas planes too. The technology is getting better and better as time goes on too.

I motor up to altitude, glide around and if no thermals then I have to motor up again. With no thermals I can be up 30 minutes and with thermals, obviously longer. Usually the plane outlasts me.
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Old 09-15-2011, 10:39 AM
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Default RE: GAS/GLOW HOW TO....

I have a glider also and a few small electrics. The bulk of my planes are now gasoline with a few glow thrown in. My 20 year old son, who has been flying since he was 7, has gone all electric. His are large. His newest is a 104" Slick that is electric. Its a monster.

To each his own I guess. I'm sure the electric market has exploded in the last few years. We see more and more at our club all the time. I can see why, no mess, no vibration and no tuning.

Like many of you I like internal combustion engines. Love the sound, love the smell. I do feel that the diversity is good for our sport though. The more the merrier!
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Old 09-15-2011, 10:54 AM
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Default RE: GAS/GLOW HOW TO....

I have three little electrics in my fleet that I enjoy. The electric airplanes definitely have a place in our hobby. The only thing that aggravates me is them dominating the magazines. They have their own publications. I just wish they would keep the electric coverage in those publications, and keep the other magazines mostly free of electric coverage. I get all excited when my magazines arrive, only to be disappointed to see that 80% of the material is not what I subscribed for and not particularly interesting to me....

I would feel the same way if the coverage were overwhelmed with other things too, such as gliders, cars, boats, or what are those funny things that don't really fly? The earth repels them. Oh yeah, HELICOPTERS!!

AV8TOR
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Old 09-15-2011, 12:41 PM
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Default RE: GAS/GLOW HOW TO....

I've been noticing at the local hobby stores that the glow and gas models sit around, while the electrics have a descent turnover.
You notice too, that OS is putting out gas engines and electric motors. I'm thinking that people are getting to hate glow fuel, for the price and mess, and I'm expecting to see more and more smaller gas engines, if they can get them a bit smaller, lighter and more powerful. That's where this gas/glow conversion is interesting. 3% oil instead of 18% and a fraction of the price.[X(]

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Old 09-15-2011, 12:52 PM
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Default RE: GAS/GLOW HOW TO....

Remember this 25cc homey from the homey thread? I finally maidened it. It ran really well. Initially I set it at 3 turns both high and low. Didn't seem rich at all, idles like a champ and transition is perfect. I did see a bit of smoke so I flew it just like that. Flight went great, engine ran great on GG, and when done, I still had mess on the side of the plane! Must be a bit rich but it sure has way more power than I expected. Its been stuffed, de squished, FB ring pinned, ported, exhaust opened, muffler gutted, timed, etc. OH and btw.... the silicone exhaust tubes we talked about before? They are still in fine shape!! Happy camper


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Old 09-15-2011, 02:32 PM
  #421
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Default RE: GAS/GLOW HOW TO....

Cool!! Just remember, you don't need to tune it like a glow engine. Tune it for max rpms. It doesn't need to be extra rich like a glow engine, both because it has "real" bearings, sufficient cooling fin area, and because the pumper carb won't lean out in flight like a glow carb can. It sounds to me like you are running a bit rich. My Gas/Glow airplanes don't have any "glop" on them after flight, and don't leave a smoke trail. (Unless I turn my smoke system on!)

AV8T0R
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Old 09-15-2011, 07:13 PM
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Default RE: GAS/GLOW HOW TO....

Is that an Ultra Spad Stick I see?[>:]
Spads rock.
Quote:
ORIGINAL: jrjr2u

Remember this 25cc homey from the homey thread? I finally maidened it. It ran really well. Initially I set it at 3 turns both high and low. Didn't seem rich at all, idles like a champ and transition is perfect. I did see a bit of smoke so I flew it just like that. Flight went great, engine ran great on GG, and when done, I still had mess on the side of the plane! Must be a bit rich but it sure has way more power than I expected. Its been stuffed, de squished, FB ring pinned, ported, exhaust opened, muffler gutted, timed, etc. OH and btw.... the silicone exhaust tubes we talked about before? They are still in fine shape!! Happy camper


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Old 09-16-2011, 03:29 AM
  #423
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: The Flying Farmer

Is that an Ultra Spad Stick I see?[>:]
Spads rock.
Yep it sure is. It was downsized a bit for the 25cc but I bet this homey would have pulled the full size around just fine. Chris posted down sized plans in the forum eons ago.
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Old 09-16-2011, 09:47 AM
  #424
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Default RE: GAS/GLOW HOW TO....

I did a Homelite 25cc for a friend of mine. He didn't want to go Gas/Glow because he needed weight on the front of his plane and wanted to keep the magneto. But I did all the hop up mods to it. It turns an APC 16 x 8 at 8800 rpms and rocks!

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Old 09-16-2011, 09:56 AM
  #425
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Next time out I will get my tach out and see what this one is doing. I am using a 16x8 APC too
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