Please help identify this engine
10-06-2009, 11:27 PM
#1
Please help identify this engine
I'm not sure if this is a conversion or a purpose built engine. I just picked tis up at our monthly meeting and the seller knew nothing of it.
It seems to be a 25cc or smaller, it weighs 2.25 lbs. as shown, has a Zama carb with a small about 8mm intake, full crank sawn off in back. I'm guessing this is an older engine because it has mechanical timing which adjust with the carb, and I assume points ignition. Everything works very smoothly and it has decent compression. The only marking seems to be three stacked triangles and a 7.
I guess if I use this ignition I need a coil like they use on oldtimer ignition engines. The seller thought I could fix the timing and hook it to an electronic ignition, but would that work if it has points?
Any ideas or suggestions appreciated.
Rod S
It seems to be a 25cc or smaller, it weighs 2.25 lbs. as shown, has a Zama carb with a small about 8mm intake, full crank sawn off in back. I'm guessing this is an older engine because it has mechanical timing which adjust with the carb, and I assume points ignition. Everything works very smoothly and it has decent compression. The only marking seems to be three stacked triangles and a 7.
I guess if I use this ignition I need a coil like they use on oldtimer ignition engines. The seller thought I could fix the timing and hook it to an electronic ignition, but would that work if it has points?
Any ideas or suggestions appreciated.
Rod S
10-07-2009, 01:53 AM
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RE: Please help identify this engine
you can stuff a piece of soft rope (I use spare pull start ropes removed from weedies) in the spark plug hole to stop the piston but if the hub is left hand threded on, it most likely has a hard loctite on it so you might as well leave it how it is
it looks like a Kioritz, most likely was just set up for a manual advance ignition, that's what it looks like anyway. you should be able to get a RCEXL ignition and just set it up on the magnet in the hub and just ignore or remove the auto advance ring.
it looks like a Kioritz, most likely was just set up for a manual advance ignition, that's what it looks like anyway. you should be able to get a RCEXL ignition and just set it up on the magnet in the hub and just ignore or remove the auto advance ring.
10-07-2009, 02:53 AM
#5
RE: Please help identify this engine
Well I got the prop hub off sticking a rubber hose in the spark plug hole. But now I need to get into the timing unit. I noticed why this motor may have been passed on. The wires were hanging by a thread, and there is some type of glue there. They finally broke off while I was fiddling with it. I can't tell how to get the timing unit off. There appears to be a circlip on the shaft, but there is so little room to get anything in there at it, and even if you could how would it get over the theaded shaft. You can see in the photos how the rear part has a bearing, while the front part spins. I may end up cutting this timer off and putting a RCEXL on it.
Thanks for all the ideas. I'll check into Kioritz/Echo.
RS
Thanks for all the ideas. I'll check into Kioritz/Echo.
RS
10-07-2009, 08:38 AM
#6
RE: Please help identify this engine
Hi, it may be that what you have opened up is the Hall sensor wiring. It may be that is all that is in the hub, and what is missing is the electronic control box with the CDI electronics and spark coil; all of which a CH or RXEL system will provide. Somehow you will need to get inside the hub and at the rotating magnet, if only to repair or replace the Hall sensor and wiring. Wish I could help more. Good luck.
10-07-2009, 10:10 AM
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RE: Please help identify this engine
Its got an RC Ignition conversion. Replacing the sensor is easy but a PIA. To convert it to RCEXL you must remove the pushrod to the carb and use it to lock the timing in the 28-30 degree range.
10-07-2009, 01:23 PM
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RE: Please help identify this engine
Yup, Hall effect trigger unit.
Only way to marine that engine would be to use original electronics.
You saw my post, For $100 and ship costs ... have a whole box of stuff !!
Only way to marine that engine would be to use original electronics.
You saw my post, For $100 and ship costs ... have a whole box of stuff !!
10-07-2009, 01:29 PM
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RE: Please help identify this engine
ORIGINAL: Scott Schneider
Yup, Hall effect trigger unit.
Only way to marine that engine would be to use original electronics.
You saw my post, For $100 and ship costs ... have a whole box of stuff !!
Yup, Hall effect trigger unit.
Only way to marine that engine would be to use original electronics.
You saw my post, For $100 and ship costs ... have a whole box of stuff !!
No need for original electronics. C&H can set you up with a unit, and hall sensor. You'll time it for 28-30 BTDC, and fix the mechanically adjustable wheel holding the sensor into that position. The original electronics were long gone when Ralph got ahold of it.
10-07-2009, 04:34 PM
#11
RE: Please help identify this engine
The original electronics were long gone when Ralph got ahold of it.
I finally got the nerve to try and pop the unit off with a puller, and it worked. What I thought was a circlip was just the keyway.
So now I wonder if I can melt or drill out that old hall sensor and install a new one, or if I should start from scratch and discard the old unit.
Or if I should convert to gas/glow as seen here?
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8009384/tm.htm
Gas/glow seems the easiest/cheapest. But then I will be dragging three types of fuel to the field. Iv'e never run EI or gas/glow. I've just been using the magneto on my other engines.
So it appears this is an old 21cc Echo from the 80's, and was converted at some time very profesionally. I guess my preference would be to re-use the original mechanical timer, but that may not be practical. Thanks.
Rod S
10-07-2009, 04:42 PM
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RE: Please help identify this engine
That's probably just some epoxy holding that hall sensor in place. You should have no trouble getting it out, and replacing it. Ralph (RcIgnitions) 928 635 2455, is who likely converted that engine to EI, per TKG's comment above. You can call Ralph for ignition parts, or PM TKG above to get what you need. I had a hall sensor go bad in a hub like that one, though it was fixed...and it's no problem to remove and replace them if necessary. You can re-use the adjustable wheel using the readily available autoadvance units, just find and set the ignition at 28-30BTDC, secure the wheel so it can no longer adjust. Just find an imobile place to anchor the ball link at the correct timing location. Really, every concern will be put to rest if you get either Ralph or Terry on the horn.
