JohN50BJ

After purchasing the Esky Belt-CP CX, I became aware of the ESC and motor problem. I wish to forgo the horrors of watching my chopper crash in flames., id rather spend the money now and upgrade the ESC, motor, and possibly the Gyro. I need help (since I know almost nothing) putting together top of the line set up. Nothing stupid, but if im going to spend the money id rather do it right...........if this matters, i do intend on eventually upgrading it to full carbon fiber parts + 170 (g) fiberglass canopy and 435mm blades (told it was possible)

Disney1

Okay lets see how I can best help you.
The first thing to replace is the ESC. Every thing else is okay for now
POOF no more heli!
Until you can replace the ESCI highly recommend you remove the plastic shrink wrap from the ESC and resecure the ESC with a couple of ZIp Ties.

Ihighly recommend the HobbyWIng Phoenix 30 amp ESC. It is what I use. I also use the programming card.
Makes setting up the new ESC very easy. Here are links to the ESC and Card

http://www.helidirect.com/hobbywing-...30a-p-4398.hdx
http://www.helidirect.com/hobbywing-...ard-p-4406.hdx

You will need to solder the Bullet connectors on to the ESC and you will have to change the ones on the motor as the Esky ines are very small.
Ihave not been able to find them anywhere, it is just easier to change them to a more standard size.
Here is a link to new bullet connectors.

http://www.helidirect.com/align-24k-...9a1-p-1177.hdx

Hope this info helps.

JohN50BJ

I was told that I would need at least a 40A ESC, the only other recommendation I had (that was in stock) was Hobbywing Platinum-60A-v1 Brushless ESc

http://www.hobbypartz.com/07e-c-platinum-60a-v1.html

As for motors, I am at a complete loss. For many sights I visited have the motors categorized to the size of the helicopter. So under the 450 scales, I found many different motors of varying KV output, diameter, as well as shaft size. What im looking for is a more powerful motor that will not only bear the extra weight, but wont eat at the flight time to badly (not to mention one that wont burn out or burst into flames).

Tinkman

The HobbyWing Pentium 30A should be fine. The 60A is definately overkill.
Joaquin

JohN50BJ

sadly they are sold out of all but the one i linked, will the 60A still work? id rather pay an extra $10.00-$20.00 then wait a week or more for them to restock items.

phillyD

Weight will be a major issue. You'll wear out parts lugging that around and the handling of the heli in flight will be undersirable. 30 A is instock at helidirect

JohN50BJ

my whole intend was (assuming its even possible) to upgrading the motor, ESC, blade length, and battery size all so that it can bear extra weight. i want to make sure that whatever ESC i buy now will end up supporting the Motor.


P.S.
i know my question requires a fair bit of effort, thanks all for the help

Tinkman

A 30A ESC will handle pretty much any motor you put into a 450 sized heli. This one should work fine, and it's on sale.
http://www.helidirect.com/hobbywing-...30a-p-4398.hdx

Joaquin

JohN50BJ

anyrecommendationfor the motor? i find this to be far more challanging. as i stated in the original post, all the motors under 450 scale models seem to very to such a delgree that there is no clear choice as to what to put on your chopper.

JohN50BJ

i think i found the motor i want, i am pretty sure it is compatible (and hopefully far better)

found Raiden T10A-3700KV Brushless motorintwo places, both out of stock, (so if you know a place

http://www.xheli.com/t10a-3700kv.html
http://www.hobbypartz.com/t10a-3700kv.html


(Edit) Also Found (although is0.2mm too big)scorpion Hk-2221-8 v2 Brushless motor (3,595Kv).

http://www.helidirect.com/scorpion-h...450-p-6439.hdx

(Edit) the cheeper of the three
http://www.helidirect.com/tonicx-z10...fan-p-6503.hdx



if the Raiden ends up being the correct size, what size pinion would i need to fit the main gear properly?not to mention what will/can i do about the battery? i with thinking of wiring two of them together (positive to positive, negative to negative). if i remember correctly that will only increase the number of cells and not change the (11.1) voltage. (please confirm).

Rob2160

This motor is without question one of the most powerful and BEST Value motors you can put in a 450 Heli..

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...idProduct=6316

If you use an 11 Tooth pinion the power will Blow you away...

It is also extremely reliable.. I thrash my heli every day with this set up and it now has over 200 flights... the motor is perfect and never even gets warm..

You will need a 40amp esc.. I use the Hobbywing Platinum Pro 40amp..

Here are two vids of it in action...

There are many other good motors available but this is best bang for buck in my opinion..

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-si10pPToXY[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76Aemqguvks[/youtube]

JohN50BJ

Impressive to say the least, Very surprised at the bang for the buck that this motor offers. Sadly my heat sink (or whatever surrounds the motor) only allows 27.7 (or so it says). Sadly the motor you linked was 28.4. Although my belt-cp CX appears to have a detachable heat sink around it (or whatever you call the plastic peace that surrounds the motor). If it is possible to replace the plastic casing around the motor, id snatch it up in a heartbeat. So if it is, be sure to link the correct sized plastic peace that surrounds the motor.

Disney1

Okay Now that you have all the info about ESC's
Where did you get the info that you could use 435mm blades? (Or is that a Typo)
The belt CP and all other 450 class helis use 315 to 335mm blades.
435mm blades are for 550 class helis, which have larger everything, motors gears batteries etc.
The Belt CP series is 450 class and can take up to 325mm blades withoput striking the tail rotor.
Anythig larger and you will begin to cause excess damage to the internal parts.
Ron Sr

Disney1

Disney1

You have a standard Outrunner Esky 3800KV motor.
The frame for a Belt CP CX is a Belt CP v1-v2 frame, which means you have a Belt CP with a fuselage bolted to it.
Any motor that will physically fit the Belt CP v1 or v2 will fit your CX version.
You will need to check the Diameter of the new motor with the original to see which motor will physically fit the opening.
Here is the HobbyWing 40a Platinum Pro at Heli direct. They are USA based so shipping is faster and cheaper.
Along with if they show it in stock they actually have it to ship.

http://www.helidirect.com/hobbywing-...sc-p-18853.hdx

Esky Motor DImensions:
Motor diameter: 27.7mm
Turngy Diameter: 28.4mm It should physically fit the space as there is only .7mm differance
Do not forget to order a pinion as the shafts are different diameters too.

Ron Sr

JohN50BJ

Stole the idea from a friend with another 450-size helicopter, he went as far as to build custom parts (nothing too complicated) through the use of fiberglass kits. He also stold many parts from a variety of 450, 480, and 500 helicopters (mainly gears). He flew with 425 blades on either a bell 222 or air wolf, can’t remember which. As for cutting of the tail, I never did see him fly in 3D. Maybe for that very reason. Regardless, the chopper was stunning and I want one. I personally plan to change many Gears with stronger CNC parts.<o></o>

http://www.helidirect.com/microheli-precision-cnc-main-gear-autorotation-hub-belt-p-7975.hdx<o></o>

<o></o>As for the battery life, he had an answer for that as well. Sadly, I didn’t have the brains to ask, nor did I ever see his Helicopter out of its fuselage. Although Id assume that you could always wire two batteries together (positive to positive, negative to negative) to extend battery life (without changing 11.1V). <o></o>

phillyD

With 2 batteries you will never get a proper CoG and your heli will fly into the ground at every chance it gets, add weights to the tail and you'll be flying a war tank. Ask your friend what he has, including type of helicopter. You might find he has a totally different brand and sizeheli. I have that same microheli gear in my heli.

Disney1

Morning:
First lets say this.

IFIFAIN'TBROKEDON'TFIXIT.

Now for the 425mm blades, you will be overstressing everything in your heli from the rears (CNC or not) to the motor and all other drive line parts.
If you want a 550 class heli then it is better to buy one than to try to build a Rube Goldberg mish mash.

Li Po batterise are very dangerious if not handeled correctly when changing and discharging.
You can NOT just solder two together to get more mAh They will not charge correctly.
As PhillyD said your weight will be far over what you want and when you add enough counter weight to the tail you will have a beautiful coffee table model.

If you want longer flight times buy a larger mAh Li-Po. You can get a 2500mAh into the Belt CP, It is a bit tight but will fit.
I do not know how much larger you can go with teh fuselage on the frame. It will restrict the forward room to place a longer battery.

Ron Sr

JohN50BJ

Disney1, what you say makes complete sense (well, if your logical). However, I am not doing this for any other reason then that it is a fun challenge. If I frack up, I end up with tons of spare parts to build something else cool. Yes, this helicopter will almost certainly be incapable of 3D flight, however that’s all I really want from an electric.

<o></o>

JohN50BJ

Aas for charging the battery. I would only link the two batteries through a set of wires. It would theoretically be the same as linking the two batteries together directly, however it would allow independent charging. I have consulted a few people on my planed battery layout, and been told it would work. Ofc if you know something they don’t, feel free to say so. (you’ll be saving me money)

<o></o>

Disney1

As long as you can charge seperatly it will work fine.
But why put double the weight?
I guess I do not understand what you are trying to acomplish.
Do not forget higher weight means more pitch to lift off, which equals higher amp draw thus less flight time.
So even though you add more mAh capacity the hegher weight will add up to shorter flight times.

phillyD

Do not forget higher weight means more pitch to lift off, which equals higher amp draw thus less flight time.
So even though you add more mAh capacity the hegher weight will add up to shorter flight times.

Amen

Don't forget to research what size heli the guy has.

lje553

My Feedback: (1)

I believe what he is doing is called tinkering aka fun. I find it strange that when I entered this hobby as a kid with my father every one who was in it was building their own aircraft from scratch. We built everything from scratch. We even cut a chainsaw motor up and used it to power a plain that we made out of cardboard and wood. We even used to coffy can lids with a hose wrapped around them for the wheels. That ugly bass turd still flies. LOL I learned from my father that almost anything we needed we could machine out. And this was in the early 80's. We even built our own radio system from scratch with stuff from radio shack. God I miss that. The wonder of watching something go from just scraps of crap to a fully functional machine.

Now days flyers crash and they just order a new wing or fuse and have no idea how to fix that stuff. I remember the hours I practiced to learn how to put on monokote. Now days people don't even have an iron at home. I was at the computer store the other day because I needed a funky power cable. I told the guy what I needed and he said oh they don't make that. I said no biggie give me one of each of these and I will make one. He flipped out! "You cant do that! You might screw up and blow up you whole system!" To which I replied. "How dare you call yourself a nerd if you don't even know your way around a soldering gun!" People these days don't build anything. They put together kits. They have to have parts with a name brand stamped on them. We need to bring Magiver back! That man could make a nuke out of a duct tape and bailing wire. I feal that we as a people have lost something. We need to tinker more.

Disney1

I am with you there.
Where are teh built up planes?
Every thing is get it don fast fast fast.
No time to build and learn.

Still physics is physics.
Nothing wrong with tinlkering and modding
A brick can fly with enough power.

JohN50BJ

Could not have said it better myself. Half the fun in this hooby is improving to individual taste. As for<o></o>

<o></o>

<o></o>

"Still Physics is physics.

<o></o>

Nothing wrong with tinkering and modding<o></o>

A brick can fly with enough power"<o></o>

<o></o>

<o></o>

This is also true, but as I said im not looking for a chopper that can leap into the air and do flips and what not. I want to build a Helicopter that will not only look realistic in flight (with a heavy fuselage), but also have the power to stay in the air longer then 10 min. my original plan (one which I have a few variations of at current) was to increase lift by increasing blade length. Of course you cant do this without first strengthening everything (so, carbon fiber everything). Since I will have bigger blades, motor torque will matter just as much as (or more then) motor speed.

<o></o>

As for fitting the motor, I have come up with two different ways of securely fitting a motor of almost any reasonable size (it just all comes down to power). My problem I am now left with is the battery. I have received a few mails about joining two batteries together. It seems as long as they share the same mile amp per hour and voltage, there is no problem. At current I have successfully placed two batteries on the belt-cp without harming its center of gravity (however not yet linked by wire). Despite never having taken a college physics class, I feel I have at the very least a basic understanding of the principles involved. I am fully aware that this may be one big waste of money, but not time. Besides, spare parts is only an excuse to build something else. (Have a bomb drop trap door planed on the back of the helicopter fuselage, will drop "snaps").<o></o>

<o></o>

<o></o>

One last thing, has anyone here bought or seen another with one of those CNC 5 blade heads? Will they fit the belt-cp?

<o></o>