Big Lama: Longer Servo Arms + shorter and lighter flybar = Flying Faster
07-13-2011, 10:52 AM
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Big Lama: Longer Servo Arms + shorter and lighter flybar = Flying Faster
Thanks to Erdnuckel2 I was able to put longer servo arms on both my Big Lama servos a couple of weeks ago. At the same time, I shortened my flybar again so that it's now 2 inches (51mm) shorter than stock. I also cut the weights at each end, lightening them by a third so that each end now weighs 6 grams instead of the stock 9.
Since those changes I've been practicing with it and I thought I'd give my impressions for those who are considering these changes.
In Hover: Way more of a challenge to hover in one place than stock. It will do it, but it's very eager to change directions now and I doubt a brand new pilot could manage it for long.
In Wind: Far, far, far, better at flying in the wind. With the moderate wind I get around my house I now have enough cyclic authority to fly directly into it, even without doing Leethetreeguys "bump ditty". Even with the wind gusting in different directions I can hover in one place by just using the cyclic to overcome the wind.
In Turns: Can definitely turn harder by banking more than before, but it's now possible in slow, hard turns to bank too much and take the Heli past 90 degrees, crashing on your side. Don't even ask me how I know.
In Forward Flight: Definitely more elevator authority (forward cyclic) to the point that I believe I'm getting to about 36 mph in a straight line. This is based on the length of my field, and the 5 seconds it takes me to cover it. I'm going to measure it again today more accurately, but I know that's in the ballpark. It doesn't make the heli any harder to fly though, as you just spend less time with with elevator stick all the way forward. In fact, unless I'm flying in my big field (the one on video) I can never use full forward stick anymore. Gets going too fast too quickly.
Blade Strikes: I did have one blade strike yesterday, which is the first I've had in months. Shattered 3 out of my 4 blades and caused the BOL to drop from 20 feet up, straight down on to it's skids. That's right, it landed on its feet from 20' up. Amazingly, it had no damage other than the shattered blades! That was exciting. I don't yet know the cause of the blade strike. I assume it was the increased cyclic movement, yet I wasn't going full speed, and I wasn't turning as hard as I frequently do. Up to that point I'd flown 10 batteries or so with the longer servo arms, and since then I've flown 3 more, all without any trouble. So I'm chalking it up to loose blades, which allowed them to sag a little. Normally I keep my blades very tight in the holders but I'd flown with those blades for many flights and didn't notice if they'd loosened.
Anyway, check out the attached video. After a week of practicing without a hint of wind, the morning I filmed the wind was gusting but I went ahead anyway. Because I was going pretty fast when the wind gusted, it sent me way too high a couple of times and was seriously annoying me. Still, I got a few good passes in, then went home and came back in the calm evening air. Much better for flying, but I flew into the darned ground anyway!
07-13-2011, 01:36 PM
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RE: Big Lama: Longer Servo Arms + shorter and lighter flybar = Flying Faster
wow, just a short message for now.
Great respect for these mods. You fly this thing like a non coaxial helicopter, its really cool to see!
Soon i will try my shortened flybar and shortened bottom blades. Lets see what that does.
btw: Helidirect sent me a new 3 in 1 controller. Really kind of them but in the first case they wanted to offer me 30% discount. I told them this wasnt fair and they agreed with that So i lost nothing but now i have those 380BL xtreme motors which i cant use. Anyone interested to buy them from me. There brand new?
Jesper(scratch)
Great respect for these mods. You fly this thing like a non coaxial helicopter, its really cool to see!
Soon i will try my shortened flybar and shortened bottom blades. Lets see what that does.
btw: Helidirect sent me a new 3 in 1 controller. Really kind of them but in the first case they wanted to offer me 30% discount. I told them this wasnt fair and they agreed with that
So i lost nothing but now i have those 380BL xtreme motors which i cant use. Anyone interested to buy them from me. There brand new?Jesper(scratch)
07-13-2011, 06:06 PM
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RE: Big Lama: Longer Servo Arms + shorter and lighter flybar = Flying Faster
ORIGINAL: Owner1
Hey again mate,Thanks to Erdnuckel2 I was able to put longer servo arms on both my Big Lama servos a couple of weeks ago. At the same time, I shortened my flybar again so that it's now 2 inches (51mm) shorter than stock. I also cut the weights at each end, lightening them by a third so that each end now weighs 6 grams instead of the stock 9.
Since those changes I've been practicing with it and I thought I'd give my impressions for those who are considering these changes.
In Hover: Way more of a challenge to hover in one place than stock. It will do it, but it's very eager to change directions now and I doubt a brand new pilot could manage it for long.
In Wind: Far, far, far, better at flying in the wind. With the moderate wind I get around my house I now have enough cyclic authority to fly directly into it, even without doing Leethetreeguys ''bump ditty''. Even with the wind gusting in different directions I can hover in one place by just using the cyclic to overcome the wind.
In Turns: Can definitely turn harder by banking more than before, but it's now possible in slow, hard turns to bank too much and take the Heli past 90 degrees, crashing on your side. Don't even ask me how I know.
In Forward Flight: Definitely more elevator authority (forward cyclic) to the point that I believe I'm getting to about 36 mph in a straight line. This is based on the length of my field, and the 5 seconds it takes me to cover it. I'm going to measure it again today more accurately, but I know that's in the ballpark. It doesn't make the heli any harder to fly though, as you just spend less time with with elevator stick all the way forward. In fact, unless I'm flying in my big field (the one on video) I can never use full forward stick anymore. Gets going too fast too quickly.
Blade Strikes: I did have one blade strike yesterday, which is the first I've had in months. Shattered 3 out of my 4 blades and caused the BOL to drop from 20 feet up, straight down on to it's skids. That's right, it landed on its feet from 20' up. Amazingly, it had no damage other than the shattered blades! That was exciting. I don't yet know the cause of the blade strike. I assume it was the increased cyclic movement, yet I wasn't going full speed, and I wasn't turning as hard as I frequently do. Up to that point I'd flown 10 batteries or so with the longer servo arms, and since then I've flown 3 more, all without any trouble. So I'm chalking it up to loose blades, which allowed them to sag a little. Normally I keep my blades very tight in the holders but I'd flown with those blades for many flights and didn't notice if they'd loosened.
Anyway, check out the attached video. After a week of practicing without a hint of wind, the morning I filmed the wind was gusting but I went ahead anyway. Because I was going pretty fast when the wind gusted, it sent me way too high a couple of times and was seriously annoying me. Still, I got a few good passes in, then went home and came back in the calm evening air. Much better for flying, but I flew into the darned ground anyway!
Owner1
[/youtube]
[/youtube]
As Jester says, you are flying that beast like it is a non-coax and A LOT more adventurous than Fernando or myself ever tried! You are a true pioneer now mate
It may seem obvious but I will say it anyway - at the ends of runs the coaxs gain altitude because they are a Fixed Pitch. When you change the heading of the bird from FFF the built-up kenetic energy (of the whole bird especially the weight in the flybar) has to go somewhere and before you know it the BOL has gained 20'. The next thing that you will have to do is gain skill on the throttle to drop throttle slightly slightly before the end of a run so the change of direction is done under a little less throttle. This IS tricky - as you don't wanna give your bird a "hard ground lesson"!
Don't reduce the throttle so much if you are gonna flare-out into a hover at the end of a run though.....In your next videos could you drive a 6" stake with a short ribbon tied to the top into the ground near your take-off area?! This would allow us viewers to see the ground-level breeze easier.[sm=tongue_smile.gif]
Nice job!![sm=thumbs_up.gif]
Peter[sm=shades_smile.gif]
P.S. A special "hey" to Sven who always provided me with invaluable information also[sm=49_49.gif]
P.S. Warning: Poaching ahead
The mCPX is a smaller FLYBARLESS Head Collective Pitch bird, which has a higher headspeed - and (in idle-up as I always fly) flies straight through breezes like they don't even exist. If you are gonna take the leap to Collective Pitch birds - which I think you are more than capable of flying - get a 450 or 500 size bird for the park in the video & a mCPX for indoors after dark.
07-15-2011, 01:38 PM
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RE: Big Lama: Longer Servo Arms + shorter and lighter flybar = Flying Faster
Thanks for the nice comments. And Peter, don't hesitate to explain the obvious. I miss the obvious all the time. In fact, I'd only very recently caught on to the fact that the fix pitched heli will rise once you reduce the forward cyclic. I have been practicing at reducing throttle while reducing forward cyclic, but I was clearly not dialed in very well on the filming day. It seemed the helicopter wanted to rise no matter what I did. At the end I had to resist the temptation to just turn off the throttle and let it fall part way down.
As far as pioneering anything: All I did was copy everything that you and all of the original BOL pilots had already figured out. And I'm willing to crash a lot.
Also, I've been at the LHS looking at the MCPX. I think that will be my next heli so I can fly through the 9 month long rainy season here in Seattle. As for a 450 or 500, it still seems like a serious commitment, with that Flying Chainsaw up top. But it does make me feel good for you to suggest that you think I'm capable of learning it. Thanks for that.
Finally, there are not yet any Helitek flybars in my mailbox. When I do get it, I'll put it on and make a video of me flying with it. Thanks again.
Brendan
As far as pioneering anything: All I did was copy everything that you and all of the original BOL pilots had already figured out. And I'm willing to crash a lot.
Also, I've been at the LHS looking at the MCPX. I think that will be my next heli so I can fly through the 9 month long rainy season here in Seattle. As for a 450 or 500, it still seems like a serious commitment, with that Flying Chainsaw up top. But it does make me feel good for you to suggest that you think I'm capable of learning it. Thanks for that.
Finally, there are not yet any Helitek flybars in my mailbox. When I do get it, I'll put it on and make a video of me flying with it. Thanks again.
Brendan
07-17-2011, 09:54 PM
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RE: Big Lama: Longer Servo Arms + shorter and lighter flybar = Flying Faster
Brendan,
Totally new here. One question, where did you get the flybar? And more info please on moving the battery forward
Totally new here. One question, where did you get the flybar? And more info please on moving the battery forward
07-18-2011, 05:15 AM
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RE: Big Lama: Longer Servo Arms + shorter and lighter flybar = Flying Faster
ORIGINAL: Jimi2f
Brendan,
Totally new here. One question, where did you get the flybar? And more info please on moving the battery forward
Brendan,
Totally new here. One question, where did you get the flybar? And more info please on moving the battery forward
Helitek-rc.com did sell adjustable flybars for the BOL before - but they haven't for a while now. I bought four when they were available & posted Brendan one of my spares....
Peter[sm=shades_smile.gif]
07-18-2011, 08:50 AM
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RE: Big Lama: Longer Servo Arms + shorter and lighter flybar = Flying Faster
ORIGINAL: Jimi2f
Brendan,
Totally new here. One question, where did you get the flybar? And more info please on moving the battery forward
Brendan,
Totally new here. One question, where did you get the flybar? And more info please on moving the battery forward
Regarding the battery being moved forward, the Big Lama seems to have the COG slightly to the rear as it comes stock. In other words, it goes backward better than forward. So it's generally accepted wisdom that moving the battery forward in the fuselage balances the Heli better and lets it go forwards better. There is a good Youtube video that shows a method for accomplishing this, and I've posted the link here. The videos advice is all good, except for the choice of blades. I would NOT recommend the 3dPro blades as they are too flexible. I had many blade strikes using them, including one at high speed that is featured on my youtube channel.
Good luck, and don't hesitate to ask questions on this forum. Lots of knowledgeable people here, and some less knowledgeable people like me.
Owner1
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMctPc_Dq2g[/youtube]
07-18-2011, 11:14 PM
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RE: Big Lama: Longer Servo Arms + shorter and lighter flybar = Flying Faster
Thanks Owner I was most courious about the Battery. i know about the COG issue and wanted to see how others had delt with it.
I have a Big Green Lama. It Has many of the upgrades, I use Plain white xtreme blades they have a deep pitch, can catch a lot of air and don't break easy. I also have the xtreme 15mm extention, heat sinks, super skids, full metal on shaft with xtreme gears and full set of lights setup as a real heli would (I do a lot of night flying). I have replaced the ESKY reciver and 4 in 1 to use a Spektrum Ar 6210 reciever and Eflite 4 in 1 to fly Using my DX7 tx. All that I have to finnish upgrading is a pair of brushless motors. I fly this bird high up with a camera.But in my case the batterymod is in the way of where I mount the camera.
Thanks again
Jimi
I have a Big Green Lama. It Has many of the upgrades, I use Plain white xtreme blades they have a deep pitch, can catch a lot of air and don't break easy. I also have the xtreme 15mm extention, heat sinks, super skids, full metal on shaft with xtreme gears and full set of lights setup as a real heli would (I do a lot of night flying). I have replaced the ESKY reciver and 4 in 1 to use a Spektrum Ar 6210 reciever and Eflite 4 in 1 to fly Using my DX7 tx. All that I have to finnish upgrading is a pair of brushless motors. I fly this bird high up with a camera.But in my case the batterymod is in the way of where I mount the camera.
Thanks again
Jimi
ORIGINAL: Owner1
Up to this point I've been modifying the stock flybars. But as Peter said, I've got a Helitek flybar on its way to me, courtesy of Peter. Unfortunately, those are out of production. Regardless, I will report on how it works after I get it.
Regarding the battery being moved forward, the Big Lama seems to have the COG slightly to the rear as it comes stock. In other words, it goes backward better than forward. So it's generally accepted wisdom that moving the battery forward in the fuselage balances the Heli better and lets it go forwards better. There is a good Youtube video that shows a method for accomplishing this, and I've posted the link here. The videos advice is all good, except for the choice of blades. I would NOT recommend the 3dPro blades as they are too flexible. I had many blade strikes using them, including one at high speed that is featured on my youtube channel.
Good luck, and don't hesitate to ask questions on this forum. Lots of knowledgeable people here, and some less knowledgeable people like me.
Owner1
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMctPc_Dq2g[/youtube]
ORIGINAL: Jimi2f
Brendan,
Totally new here. One question, where did you get the flybar? And more info please on moving the battery forward
Brendan,
Totally new here. One question, where did you get the flybar? And more info please on moving the battery forward
Regarding the battery being moved forward, the Big Lama seems to have the COG slightly to the rear as it comes stock. In other words, it goes backward better than forward. So it's generally accepted wisdom that moving the battery forward in the fuselage balances the Heli better and lets it go forwards better. There is a good Youtube video that shows a method for accomplishing this, and I've posted the link here. The videos advice is all good, except for the choice of blades. I would NOT recommend the 3dPro blades as they are too flexible. I had many blade strikes using them, including one at high speed that is featured on my youtube channel.
Good luck, and don't hesitate to ask questions on this forum. Lots of knowledgeable people here, and some less knowledgeable people like me.
Owner1
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMctPc_Dq2g[/youtube]
07-24-2011, 08:19 AM
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RE: Big Lama: Longer Servo Arms + shorter and lighter flybar = Flying Faster
hii owner1,
I sent you a pm back but it looks like when i check my sentbox i havent sent anything. I dont understand.
Anyways, i have a problem with my swashplate. I dont understand what i do wrong. When i try to tune it so i get more forward speed my swashplate always hits the shaft. If i try it with a longer servo arm i have this problem even more. What do i do wrong? Anything i try i always stay with this problem and its starts to bent things above the swashplate. For example when i pull the right stick fully in to any corner (left or right or down or under) i have this problem the worst. My motor even stops spinning.but when i tune it down so i dont have the problem anymore i loose my forward speed.
Dont you have these troubles or did you use another swashplate?
Kind regards Jesper
I sent you a pm back but it looks like when i check my sentbox i havent sent anything. I dont understand.
Anyways, i have a problem with my swashplate. I dont understand what i do wrong. When i try to tune it so i get more forward speed my swashplate always hits the shaft. If i try it with a longer servo arm i have this problem even more. What do i do wrong? Anything i try i always stay with this problem and its starts to bent things above the swashplate. For example when i pull the right stick fully in to any corner (left or right or down or under) i have this problem the worst. My motor even stops spinning.but when i tune it down so i dont have the problem anymore i loose my forward speed.
Dont you have these troubles or did you use another swashplate?
Kind regards Jesper
07-24-2011, 09:19 AM
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RE: Big Lama: Longer Servo Arms + shorter and lighter flybar = Flying Faster
ORIGINAL: jsscratch
hii owner1,
I sent you a pm back but it looks like when i check my sentbox i havent sent anything. I dont understand.
Anyways, i have a problem with my swashplate. I dont understand what i do wrong. When i try to tune it so i get more forward speed my swashplate always hits the shaft. If i try it with a longer servo arm i have this problem even more. What do i do wrong? Anything i try i always stay with this problem and its starts to bent things above the swashplate. For example when i pull the rightstick fullyin to any corner (left or right or down or under) i have this problem the worst. My motor even stops spinning.but when i tune it down so i dont have the problem anymore i loose my forward speed.
Dont you have these troubles or did you use another swashplate?
Kind regards Jesper
hii owner1,
I sent you a pm back but it looks like when i check my sentbox i havent sent anything. I dont understand.
Anyways, i have a problem with my swashplate. I dont understand what i do wrong. When i try to tune it so i get more forward speed my swashplate always hits the shaft. If i try it with a longer servo arm i have this problem even more. What do i do wrong? Anything i try i always stay with this problem and its starts to bent things above the swashplate. For example when i pull the rightstick fullyin to any corner (left or right or down or under) i have this problem the worst. My motor even stops spinning.but when i tune it down so i dont have the problem anymore i loose my forward speed.
Dont you have these troubles or did you use another swashplate?
Kind regards Jesper
Your problem sounds pretty extreme, as it appears to be bending the rotor shafts enough to bind the gears with the motors! Anyway,there is a lot of experience out there and maybe someone reading this will know why yours runs out of travel. It could be production variance, but not that likely due to it being an injection molded plastic piece. They all come out very close to the same.
Sorry for your continued troubles and don't give up. If you keep at it you will get the little stuff fixed and be on your way. Keep us posted on how it's going, and when the 3 in 1 gets tried out as well.
Finally, I got both the pm's but decided to post here so that others could help as well.
Brendan
07-24-2011, 10:23 AM
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RE: Big Lama: Longer Servo Arms + shorter and lighter flybar = Flying Faster
Jesper,
I may be able to help But first some questions. Is your swash level when you first put power to the heli? what hapens to the swash when you first plug in the battery? Try this manually level the swash then plug in the battery (leave the tx off) the plate should move as soon as you plug in the servo's try to level out and the swash should be level. from the rear with the fuselage <xml><w:worddocument><w:view></w:view><w:zoom></w:zoom><w:trackmoves></w:trackmoves><w:trackformatting></w:trackformatting><w
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After I switched to an alluminium swash the heli would try to go nose into the ground and the front swash pin would hit the bottem of the run. I carfully and keeping tract of the turns, adjusted the servo links(vertical)till the swash was level after plug in.
It was a radical adjustment 16 half turns on one arm and 12 on the other. But now she flies just as before. I've since come to believe that the stock swash is the last thing I replace and in most cases find myself replacing wih another stock plate. Hope this helps
Jimi
I may be able to help But first some questions. Is your swash level when you first put power to the heli? what hapens to the swash when you first plug in the battery? Try this manually level the swash then plug in the battery (leave the tx off) the plate should move as soon as you plug in the servo's try to level out and the swash should be level. from the rear with the fuselage <xml><w:worddocument><w:view></w:view><w:zoom></w:zoom><w:trackmoves></w:trackmoves><w:trackformatting></w:trackformatting><w
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*/table.MsoNormalTable{mso-style-name:"Table Normal";mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0;mso-tstyle-colband-size:0;mso-style-noshow:yes;mso-style-priority:99;mso-style-qformat:yes;mso-style-parent:"";mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;mso-para-margin-top:0in;mso-para-margin-right:0in;mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:0in;line-height:115%;mso-pagination:widow-orphan;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;</style>After I switched to an alluminium swash the heli would try to go nose into the ground and the front swash pin would hit the bottem of the run. I carfully and keeping tract of the turns, adjusted the servo links(vertical)till the swash was level after plug in.
It was a radical adjustment 16 half turns on one arm and 12 on the other. But now she flies just as before. I've since come to believe that the stock swash is the last thing I replace and in most cases find myself replacing wih another stock plate. Hope this helps
Jimi
ORIGINAL: jsscratch
hii owner1,
I sent you a pm back but it looks like when i check my sentbox i havent sent anything. I dont understand.
Anyways, i have a problem with my swashplate. I dont understand what i do wrong. When i try to tune it so i get more forward speed my swashplate always hits the shaft. If i try it with a longer servo arm i have this problem even more. What do i do wrong? Anything i try i always stay with this problem and its starts to bent things above the swashplate. For example when i pull the rightstick fullyin to any corner (left or right or down or under) i have this problem the worst. My motor even stops spinning.but when i tune it down so i dont have the problem anymore i loose my forward speed.
Dont you have these troubles or did you use another swashplate?
Kind regards Jesper
hii owner1,
I sent you a pm back but it looks like when i check my sentbox i havent sent anything. I dont understand.
Anyways, i have a problem with my swashplate. I dont understand what i do wrong. When i try to tune it so i get more forward speed my swashplate always hits the shaft. If i try it with a longer servo arm i have this problem even more. What do i do wrong? Anything i try i always stay with this problem and its starts to bent things above the swashplate. For example when i pull the rightstick fullyin to any corner (left or right or down or under) i have this problem the worst. My motor even stops spinning.but when i tune it down so i dont have the problem anymore i loose my forward speed.
Dont you have these troubles or did you use another swashplate?
Kind regards Jesper
07-25-2011, 06:26 AM
#12
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RE: Big Lama: Longer Servo Arms + shorter and lighter flybar = Flying Faster
Hello guys,
Thanks for the answers. Yes my swashplate is leveled when i put in the battery but i do use a metal swashplate. So i might give it a try with the plastic one. i hope this will work.
I will just putt in some more time and hopefully i will get it done.
thank you.
cheers jesper
Thanks for the answers. Yes my swashplate is leveled when i put in the battery but i do use a metal swashplate. So i might give it a try with the plastic one. i hope this will work.
I will just putt in some more time and hopefully i will get it done.
thank you.
cheers jesper
07-25-2011, 07:43 AM
#13
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: WA,
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RE: Big Lama: Longer Servo Arms + shorter and lighter flybar = Flying Faster
ORIGINAL: jsscratch
Hello guys,
Thanks for the answers. Yes my swashplate is leveled when i put in the battery but i do use a metal swashplate. So i might give it a try with the plastic one. i hope this will work.
I will just putt in some more time and hopefully i will get it done.
thank you.
cheers jesper
Hello guys,
Thanks for the answers. Yes my swashplate is leveled when i put in the battery but i do use a metal swashplate. So i might give it a try with the plastic one. i hope this will work.
I will just putt in some more time and hopefully i will get it done.
thank you.
cheers jesper
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