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Thread: Esky Lama V3


  1. #26

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    RE: Esky Lama V3

    Thanks! I noticed no one had ever done a below heli shot, at least of the clips I had seen.

    Wow, I didn't even think of that. I guess the stabilizer bar could deflect that much to hit the lower blades. I was having trouble visualizing how it would hit the upper rotor, but thought maybe the strain of the fast-moving parts could bend it enough to collide.

    I actually just got some footage of the heli going into a death roll. I got it caught in some flowers while I was making sure the heli was in the viewfinder of my camera. When I noticed it was getting stuck, I full throttled and came out, then hovered for about a half second, then randomly the Lama veered off to the side and smashed into the wall. It was as if I was applying full aileron. As usual, I didn't hear any wierd noises of any kind. There must be something going on with the electronics. I'll post the video when I get home.

  2. #27

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    RE: Esky Lama V3

    Hey guys,

    Thanks for the feedback. I like the term β€œDeath Roll” cause that exactly what it is. I patched her up and took her to the HS gym again Monday night. I was flying it with another Lama owner standing behind me. He knows the trouble I’ve been having and so was watching closely. I flew it for about 5 minutes with no problems; it was perfectly trimmed in hover, and I was flying gentle figure 8’s about five feet up and 10 feet to the left and right of myself. And then it happened again… Death Roll! My buddy’s jaw dropped; it was flying so nice you’d never expect this. There was no jerky stick motions, no full stick travel, just coordinated turns using cyclic, power and yaw. I noticed the stabilizer bar was tilted hard (like 30 or 40 degrees) in the direction of the roll (left). There was no blade strike, no radio failure. Go figure – the stabilizer bar seems to be wigging out!

    Vega – I agree, its time for some video!

    Now I’m wondering, how about putting a damper on the stabilizer bar? Maybe a small O ring or a chunk of silicone fuel line might limit the travel of this puppy and help prevent this behavior.

    Say, do the other co-axial choppers do this (Blade/ Hirobo)? I’ve noticed most folks with these heli’s just hover.

    -Doug

  3. #28

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    RE: Esky Lama V3

    Ok, so I took some video of the helicopter doing a death roll. At least in my case, the stabilizer bar definitely did not hit the bottom rotor blades. I get the chopper caught on some flowers and then pull up and straighten out quickly. I hover for about a half second and then suddenly the servos freak out and I get full left aileron. The chopper crashes into a wall almost immediately. I was looking at the distance between the stabilizer bar and the bottom rotor and there is like 2 inches of space. I don't see how they could hit, even with flexing the bottom rotor (I held the heli by the tips of the bottom rotor just to see) and stabilizer bar.

    I think every time I've had a death roll, it has been due to one of the servos freaking out. For some reason, this is induced by abrupt transmitter input.

    The video is here: http://youtube.com/watch?v=b9j08or0iRg . Look about half-way through and you'll see a slow-mo and super-slow-mo of the servo freaking out. The quality isn't good, but you can kind of see what happens. Just keep in mind, after I get up above the flowers, I didn't use ailerons at all. That was all the AI of the helicopter . More videos to follow...

  4. #29

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    RE: Esky Lama V3

    Hey Vega, Nice movie clip! I don’t know if it proves the existence of the β€œdeath roll”, but it sure speaks to the durability of the Lama! I’ll bring my camera to the next HS fly night (still 2 weeks away) and see if I can get a closer shot. Nice catch at the end of your flick!

  5. #30

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    RE: Esky Lama V3

    Thanks for the comments. What's seen in the video twice (once at beginning, once at middle) is what I am refering to as the death roll. I'm not sure if that's the right term for it; you might be experiencing something different that I haven't yet encountered.

    I am convinced now that one of the servos is acting up after abrupt servo/throttle input. You'll notice in the video that it just randomly gives full aileron even after I had it stably hovering, although for a very short time. The video at the beginning where you only see the end of the death roll was a bit different scenario. I was about to crash into something and quickly pulled away, only to have it suddenly lose stability and keep pulling away but at a faster and faster rate, even though I was trying to counter.

    When the Lama goes into my version of the "death roll", nothing collides and the motors are still running. The heli just freaks out and usually my reflexes aren't fast enough to counter the full servo freak-out. It flies so quickly to the side that I have very little time to react before it smashes into something.

    I'll definitely take some more videos, maybe next time with a human controlling the camera rather than it just sitting on top of a shelf or table. Or I could try attaching the camera to my head like in that one youtube video. I'm just afraid I'll mess up my Lama pretty bad if I crash hard. Let me know when you get some footage.

  6. #31

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    RE: Esky Lama V3

    Some additional light would also help as it is difficult to see sometimes.

  7. #32

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    RE: Esky Lama V3

    Yeah, agreed. Some of the clips are from when I first got the chopper, so I was just messing around with the camera while I was more focused on learning to fly it. Later filming sessions were done with more light.

    I also have an actual digital video camera I could use, which might improve the quality. All the clips of the Lama on YouTube are with my digital still picture camera. Additionally, a cameraman would greatly help, because he could zoom in and track the chopper on its course to destruction .

  8. #33

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    RE: Esky Lama V3

    Hey vega2614,

    You more than likely have checked this out thoroughly, but thought I'd mention it anyway. I have read on more than one occasion of Lamas just going haywire for no apparent reason. What some have found is that when they uplug the battery and slowly move (by hand) the servos full up and then full down that sometimes the swashplate would hang up on a motor, a glob of motor solder or even a motor wire. Worth looking into for everyone, actually!

  9. #34

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    RE: Esky Lama V3

    Yeah, I'll take a look at that. Thanks!

  10. #35

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    RE: Esky Lama V3

    Quick question,
    My coco Lama V3 flew rock solid (maybe with one or two trim corrections per battery pack), until recently. It seems that I am always chasing the tail to trim it out. It varies which direction it drifts, but it may start out rotating to the left, then a minute later back to the right, then left, then left, then right etc. I seem to be doing this for the full battery charge every 1/2 to 1 minute. Does anyone have any idea what's going on? Do I maybe have worn out motors? If so, can I get upgraded ones? Thanks in advance.

  11. #36

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    RE: Esky Lama V3

    ORIGINAL: up4speed

    Quick question,
    My coco Lama V3 flew rock solid (maybe with one or two trim corrections per battery pack), until recently. It seems that I am always chasing the tail to trim it out. It varies which direction it drifts, but it may start out rotating to the left, then a minute later back to the right, then left, then left, then right etc. I seem to be doing this for the full battery charge every 1/2 to 1 minute. Does anyone have any idea what's going on? Do I maybe have worn out motors? If so, can I get upgraded ones? Thanks in advance.
    First thing you want to do when you first lift off with a fresh battery is immediately note which way your yaw is. Land and make proportional screw (on the 4in1) adjustment accordingly. What you are looking to accomplish is a straight tracking tail UPON FIRST LIFT OFF with a freshly charged battery. OK, next, fly for 30 to 60 seconds (make NO rudder trim adjustment during this period) then land. Unplug and rearm your battery and fly as you normally would. You should now only have to make minor and infrequent rudder trim adjustments during the course of your flight (10 minutes +/-).
    Now, if the above had no effect on your frequent trimming during flight, you might want to try increasing the gyro gain ever so slightly (your tail will quiver if you have increased it too much).
    Regardless, get into the habit of initially flying for 30 to 60 seconds, landing, then rearming, then flying as you normally would. Believe it or not, this little trick works wonders!

  12. #37

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    RE: Esky Lama V3

    I will give that a try, but it all points to the same thing: there is some basic flaw in the Lama V3 flight control system. You should not HAVE to do something like that; you don't have to on other helicopters. My BCX2 does not require such a "workaround". My Lama has had a new receiver installed since the first one was trashed in a devastating "death roll" from about 50 ft. up. I have not logged enough flight time to see if the replacement receiver is subject to the same problems as the one that originally came in it. There was a lot of difference in the 2 receivers. Since the upper shaft broke where the stabilizer bar is attached in a very minor collision with a chair leg, I replaced that shaft with the original shaft from my BCX2, which I had upgraded to CNC aluminum parts. I will spend some time flying it and see if what you suggest makes a difference. Thanks for the suggestion!!

  13. #38

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    RE: Esky Lama V3


    ORIGINAL: retired911guy

    I will give that a try, but it all points to the same thing: there is some basic flaw in the Lama V3 flight control system. You should not HAVE to do something like that; you don't have to on other helicopters. My BCX2 does not require such a "workaround". My Lama has had a new receiver installed since the first one was trashed in a devastating "death roll" from about 50 ft. up. I have not logged enough flight time to see if the replacement receiver is subject to the same problems as the one that originally came in it. There was a lot of difference in the 2 receivers. Since the upper shaft broke where the stabilizer bar is attached in a very minor collision with a chair leg, I replaced that shaft with the original shaft from my BCX2, which I had upgraded to CNC aluminum parts. I will spend some time flying it and see if what you suggest makes a difference. Thanks for the suggestion!!
    I also own a BCX2 but still adhere to the above practice. Seems that resetting the 4in1 as the gyro and motors warm up towards actual operating temperature helps to stablize your flight.

  14. #39

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    RE: Esky Lama V3

    OK, I tried disconnecting the power. It resets the trim back to the center, but it still wanders all over the place and I have to reset the trim every fifteen to thirty seconds or so. It is not the proportion screw because it doesn't always wander in the same direction. It randomly wanders left or right. I then turned up the gain, almost 1/4 of a turn, no change there either. The weird part is that when the helicopter was new (maybe 40 or so flights ago), the tail only wandered a little, and usually in the same direction. Any other ideas? I love this helicopter, but I feel that my flying experience has been just to fly it and trim it out for the full battery pack. Not so much fun anymore. I would consider buying another one, and use this one for parts, But I don't want to buy a new one just to deal with the same thing after 40 or so flights. Anybody know of any other cheap, but more reliable helicopters that I should consider buying? If not, how about a good expensive one? I'm pretty sure it has to be a coaxial helicopter b/c I am more of a fixed wing pilot and I don't trust my skills. Thanks again.

  15. #40

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    RE: Esky Lama V3

    I think the Blade CX2 would make you a good one. Unfortunately, it costs just about twice as much as the Lama but has a 2.4 Ghz digital radio system and so far, I have not experienced any of the problems with it that I with the Lama. You might check with HobbyZone.com; I got mine for about $159.99, which was about $30 less than everyone else was selling them for. BTW, HobbyZone has OUTSTANDING customer service. They even call you on the phone and will talk to you if you call them. You can order on the net or call them. There are also upgrade aluminum parts available and several different fuselages available. I highly recommend this one. It also has a safety switch built in to prevent it from arming and powering up if you have the throttle open by accident.

  16. #41

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    RE: Esky Lama V3

    Hey folks,

    I am the sorta-proud new owner of an E-Sky Robins (basically same as Lama V3) and I'm hoping to get some feedback as to whether or not my 4 in 1 is bad! I've never owned a coaxial style helicopter, so I am not super familiar with how these things are supposed to work, but I definately know *something* is wrong with my heli. It hovers just fine and spins around just fine, but when I try to enter forward or reverse flight, it lunges to the right and falls from the sky unless a large amount of throttle is applied. After landing and taking a look at servo movement, it looks like only one of the two servos is adjusting the angle of the swash plate during forward flight, causing the swash plate to angle forward and to the side. The same is true for backwards movement. Shouldnt both servos be pitching the swashplate forward and back?!

  17. #42

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    RE: Esky Lama V3

    Frymire: No, only 1 servo should move. What you describe is the correct behavior. To understand why the servo pushes the swash plate at an angle, look up something called 'gyroscopic progression'...

    I'm not sure what is causing your problem, however. Perhaps one of the servo arms or links are binding on something, such as motor wires, etc.?

  18. #43

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    RE: Esky Lama V3

    Interesting. So now that I know the servos are working properly I bench tested it a bit and found that angling the swash plate in any direction quickly is slowing the lower blades down to a crawl. If I move them VERY slowly, then they do not slow down as much. Any thoughts?

  19. #44

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    RE: Esky Lama V3

    I have a question that I hope someone can answer. I just upgraded my Lama to aluminum rotor head parts: swashplate, lower rotor head and inner shaft with upper rotor head. I had to file the swashplate down some on the front side as it was hitting the motor. In addition, when I put the lower rotor head in what I thought was the proper position (the screws aligned with the holes in the outer shaft), there was no way I could get the thing to fly properly, let alone trim it out. I had to lower the lower rotor head to where the swashplate was about level at the servos "neutral position". I also noticed that the LH servo (controlling forward/reverse) was angled a bit downward at its neutral position compared to the RH servo (viewing from rear to front). This helped bring the Lama back to the point it could be marginally controlled but I am still not satisfied. I had upgraded my BCX2 the same way and everything went fine (with the screws holding the lower rotor head located at the holes in the outer shaft). You would think that swapping the plastic parts for the aluminum parts would be a "no brainer" but that was not the case. I had high hopes that the aluminum upgrade, along with a new 4 'n 1 receiver would cure the Lama of some of its tendencies towards self destruction. Any thoughts or suggestions regarding my problems? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

  20. #45

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    RE: Esky Lama V3

    RETIRED911GUY: I am having the same issue. I just upgraded my Lama v3 to all new aluminum parts - inner shaft (#11), lower rotor head set (#18), swashplate (#19, #42) and blade grips (#5). The swashplate is touching the motor closest to the tail frame. I also put the lower rotor head in what I thought was the proper position (the screws aligned with the holes in the outer shaft). When adding the new parts, I did loosen up the fix collar (#21) and moved the outer shaft and main gear B (#28). I'm wondering if these are out of position?? What is the best to postion for the main gears? Should they be flush with the copper pinion on the motors or should they seated all the way until the bearing/gears touch the main frame??

    Here is a link to an exploded view. This is where I get the part numbers from.

    http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l5...dedDiagram.jpg

    thanks

  21. #46

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    RE: Esky Lama V3

    BSPape2: I did not upgrade the blade holders, I used the original plastic blades. I noticed that the swashplate was tilted towards the rear with the lower rotor head in the original position of the the plastic unit. I eyeballed the swashplate level and then tightened the lower blade rotor head at that position. This also helped with the clearance problem with the motors. I did file down the swashplate to get some extra clearance, butby repositoning the the rotor head, that may not have been necessary. It is paramount that the swashplate be level with the servos in their "at rest or neutral" position. I was able to get the Lama to fly fairly satisfactorily at that point. Some fine tuning may resolve the issue entirely. I don't think you can mount the aluminum parts in the same positions as the plastic parts. Hope this helps.

  22. #47

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    RE: Esky Lama V3

    Found this on You Tube. It appears he is having the same swashplate issue but with the stock parts.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8masp5Ukh0

    thanks

  23. #48

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    RE: Esky Lama V3

    Ok i finally got my battery all charged up (thanks to one of my crewchiefs) and now im trying to trim the bad boy up. I see that on the controller there are the trim buttons and there are obviously the "gain and proportional" is there anything that shows what the trim buttons on the remote do... or can anyone explain? Also it seems as if my bird has a strange "tick" sometimes when im flying it it will TICK tail left. It seems like some sort of gear is being skipped over or something... anyone ever have that problem?

  24. #49

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    RE: Esky Lama V3

    Hello, I am new to the forum and RC Helicopters - -
    Presently we are flying, (crashing) 3 E-sky Lama V3 and a newly arrived Orbite lama V3. The Orbite was an unauthorized substitute by a former Hong Cong supplier. Acutely the Orbite has worked out well. It is about twice the size of the E-sky lama V3 and other than a tendency to wiggle the tail when it get light on the skids, it is short hopping well. One item the batter charge time is min of 1 hour.

    E-sky Lam V3 - - 4 in 1, so for no problems - - oldest has about 8 hrs of runtime with max duration of 4-5 min. It has had a rough life. Since it is my first RC Helicopter and I was over confident in my RC flying ability. HA, HA, no feedback with RC - - So, I have revived the A&E (A&P) and put him to work.
    Survivable ability for the E-Sky is good, -- survived several hard contacts with celling fans (turned xmitter off), walls and other inside objects until I move outside. Crashed several times, last time tail low on a gravel drive. Grounded for parts.

    2nd E-Sky Lama is on the shelf - - recovering from a vicious canine attack.
    3rd E-sky is Mode 1 - - 35MHz - The xmitter and 4 in 1 crystal are available if you use mode 1 and need the parts.

    BJ


  25. #50

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    RE: Esky Lama V3

    Hello and welcome. Does the ghost light still appear on the railroad tracks at night?


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