joizeex

sorry, this is off topic, but i just HAD to let you guys know about it because it's a damn good deal:
http://www.modelrectifier.com/search...ew.asp?ID=8335
in case anyone is looking for a .50 nitro, that's like 50% off. too bad i already have that kit in HPM mode.

joizeex

finally had my HBK up in the air after the new setup. It holds really well and the out of phase condition is completely GONE. At first i was getting some weird uneven blade grip level during rotation. One or the other would always be higher, so i figured it just needs to break in the dampers or something. I greased them up and after a few mins of hovering that problem disappeared. I guess the head assembly just needed to be spun under load for a while. The only thing i noticed is that there's some kinda wobbling that starts up and goes away, kinda weird. Not sure where it's coming from. Overall i'm happy with the CNC head though.

Kelownan

My Feedback: (1)

Had to write this twice

Oh Yeh! its painted from the inside and looks as nice as a lexan canopy, nice thing is that its pretty darn tough and not thin at the edges like the xtreme canopies are,

I also ordered the king3 tail boom kit, it a 10 mil boom and should be at my place for inspection in a few days,

Ill get to the 3d later but i have to say that it sounds Mean, i was out in the frost this morning with my lama4 it appears to be the best time other than in the evening for flying - other than numb hands its a load of fun, sounds like i have the Heli bug - way better than swine flu - and i hear once you get it you cant shake it off, believe me - the other half tried, to no avail i gave up archery instead ha ha, maybe its the adrenaline.

joizeex

So today i got to fly in a park, and i noticed that the out-of-phase thing is still happening  [:@]  dammit! Not as bad now though, but it's there when i push the cyclic hard. Also, the 288mm FRP blades i'm using have less lift than plastic Extreme's, because even though i have pitch curve set higher than before, i don't get as strong of a climbout and also the battery seems to last tiny bit less per flight.

Rusty is that normal about these blades? They are great quality for the price, nevertheless. I'm waiting on that 11T pinion you sent me, so hopefully that'll be enough to fix this, but i'm still curious about it.

joeyhatch11

I've been told that with shorter blades it'll take more to get the heli up and around so battery life will be a bit less. I went from 325's to 315's. Haven't tried anything less than that though.

Joizeex, I dont think your all that far from me. I'm in Trenton, NJ What park do you fly at? I think Maple Shade is like 20-25minutes from me. Would be nice to fly with someone. I'm all alone when it comes to helis. I have a friend at work that's into RC's but only Nitro buggies. I can't convert him hahaha

joeyhatch11

Sorry double post....................

betapilot

Hey bud - Really the amount of lift will be dictated mostly by the chordline of the blades, because those blades are heavier they reduce the chordline so that they do induce too much drag on the motor and the heli will still spool up okay at lower throttle positions. The length of the blades does affect lift too due to the amount of surface disturbing the air but since these blades are longer than the stock 275's there should be a little trade-off there. Ipersonally have not experienced much difference between these blades and most others but Ihave little experience with the xtreme blades and almost always fly in idle-up and that makes a ton of difference in lift characteristics so Icannot relate personally. Most of the feedback Ihave received on them has been very good, the only negative has been them not fitting the stock head very well in some cases. When you get the new pinion try the 11 or 13 for quicker ramps to help get the blades spinning quicker and then you may be able to reduce the pitch a little to even it out, that will also help get back the time your missing from your battery. Speaking of that, Ido not know how you called tonight without my phone ringing but Ilooked down and you had left a message, lol. Is that stealth messaging man? Check your email, Isent my reply to your pm via email since my mailbox was still fraught with pychotic episodes, I think Isent it like the day after you sent the pm, Iwill resend here in a bit just in case.

On your "out of phase" situation, explain in physical properties what exactly is happening and in what directions it does it when applying the cyclic. If it is forward and backwards it is most likely in either the tail or the flybar, if it is side to side when it does it then Iwould guess either servo or f-shaft off center or out of balance meaning a shim or washer is missing. Does it do it under hard throttle only or does it do it on decent also and you mentioned the grips are not level, did you remedy that?

joizeex

yea i figured since they're longer, i would get better lift, but if the cordline is reduced (i haven't done any measuring yet) i can see where the trade off is. Right now i have +7 midstick and +11 top stick on the pitch and 65% midstick and 100% top for throttle. Previously, with extreme blades i had +5 mid and +9 top with stock head. In both setups i'm hovering midstick. So yea, i was gonna play with the pitch curve after getting your pinions, but that USPS is sure taking their time with your packages lol. If 11T doesn't improve it by much, i might need a 12 and 13 for when you send me the Dragonus stuff.

Speaking of which. If i have stealth calls, then you must have stealth emails, because nothing came through my inbox []  Internet hates you, man lol First RCU, now email. Let me know what you wrote.

The blade grip issue resolved itself after i greased the dampers and the head got broken in with some load on it. so after a small linkage tweak, i have perfect tracking. The out of phase thing happens 30 degrees later, so it's lagging as if it were a bicyle wheel. Back and forth lagging is a little more pronounced that side to side, but it happens in all directions. Nothing seemed missing though. I'll remove the additional weights i have on the flybar from the stock head and try today after work if i get out early.

Btw, what do you use to work on the metal Dragonus head, i can't undo ANY of those screws and the screwdriver actually fits. It might be slightly less than perfect fit, so i'm afraid to strip the screw heads, but it does fit well.

joizeex

i think we were talking about that before, or maybe it was someone else... you had a lama i think?
i fly here http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...h&z=17&iwloc=A
it's in mount laurel. Small park that's good for small electrics, although i did maiden my nitro there, but i don't fly it thereon regular basis because there are lots of people, birds and kids. Let me know when you're up for it. I try to go every day after work and weekends i fly not far from there at a big field with my nitro.

betapilot

Hey dude, Stick that dragonus head in the freezer overnite and get it frozen stiff, then take it and put it in the direct sunlight. When it is room temp again the screws will come out much easier, they are loctite in any place it would matter. Eventually you will want to change as many of the phillips screws to caphead scerws as possible.

joizeex

your 2nd package finally came, but they didn't leave it without a sig. i guess it didn't fit in the mail slot... thought it would be small. USPS never ever leaves anything, it's so annoying; good thing they're 5 mins from me. so yea, please don't forget to let me know about the other thing. thanks dood.

i'll try the freezer thing. i just wanna set it up for the most easy flying, but i'll wait till i maiden it before i decide if i need to.

betapilot

"Dood", Ilove it man! On the Dragon head, if you set it up using the beginner settings the thing flies like a lama, it is almost boring. Set it up for intermediate to keep you interested, look on my website and it shows illustrations of each setting, whatever you do make sure both settings match and one set of arms is A and the other B or C or you will bend or break main shafts.

Iwill have that other email over to you shortly man, Igot busy last night cause Iam behind about 5 builds, people are eating the belt V2 up and the frankenstein versions are almost so killer Idon't believe em (and Iwas no fan of the original).

joeyhatch11

joizeex  Do you have an address so I can use the TomTom?  I should have off this weekend and if the weather holds up would like to take the trip out there. I"m getting my new HDX450SE CNC tail assembly today. I can't wait to get it on and fly. I'm also going to order one of these to put everything in. Reviews look good and they all say there is mad room to spare.


http://www.helidirect.com/mini-heli-...450-p-4977.hdx

joizeex

i can't seem to get an address lock in google. Can you just enter it as intersection of Church St and Yorktown Dr?
I think it's supposed to rain this weekend, but hopefully it won't be too bad.

Rusty, that wasn't your package yesterday, it was some walkera stuff from helidirect. I wonder whyyours istaking a while to get it here.

correction to my previous post. The rotor tilts about 25-20 degrees too early. So if i push forward, it goes forward and to the left, etc. Just tried it indoors. The swash stays where it's supposed to and while watching the flybar disk, i noticed that the condition starts at the flybar because it doesn't tilt exactly 90 degrees from the input. Everything on the head is tight. I just enabled channel mixing to negate it, like i had on the stock head, but i still would like to resolve this because it's ticking me off.

JAY FORTAY

Hey Rusty,
I am very new to heli stuff. I just got a HBK2. I am making my way, slowly, through this enormous thread. I am learning a lot, but the information I am getting is two years old at the point I am at in reading this thread. I am looking to upgrade my stock motor to brushless, and also my ESC and battery. In reading, circa page 10, I was pretty sure I wanted a 3800KV motor, and a 33a ESC, but was unsure about the battery. I am also unsure that I want to wait until I can read the whole thread to order some stuff from you. I was wondering what you feel the current bang for the buck setup is, call it middle of the road, in 2009 terms? What pinion gear and other mods (i.e. belt shimming, and whatnot) are going to be necessary and will I be able to perform these upgrades without needing any specialty tools? sorry for all of the questions. I know they have been answered many times in this thread. I am just looking for the most up to date info. I have a thread going in the same forum titled [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8869838/tm.htm]HBK2 Battery almost exploded? Stock setup...Why?!?!? [/link]

Thank you for your help in advance,
Jay

joizeex

just read your other thread. Let me tell you about those LHS guys, some can be really good people, but many will just try to **** on anything they don't sell. I've dealt with that behavior before, but hey, they gotta make money somehow; it's just their "marketing", can't blame them too much.

with that said, the other guys on that thread told you pretty much what you can do at this point, as a start, and many of us have gone the route of 3800kv motor and 25-30A ESC. I'm using the 25A Esky ESC and it hasn't exploded in a Michael Bay fashion on me yet. Get some tail blades from Trex450 because they're bigger and since the tail rotor doesn't spin as fast as it could, with the ratios that HBK2 has, you'll need bigger tail blades. Try that combo first, until you get the hang of what everything does and basic hover, then you can get that Telebee gyro. There are a couple of other similarly priced motors that Rusty can chime in on.

betapilot

man, middle of the road, I don't like being in the middle of the road and I am not so sure you will after spending a little time there, lol. Typically the mid-cost parts just mean you will be buying the good stuff later anyway so I like to just get to the point and save all the effort for set-up. There is an inherent confidence in knowing you have the proper equipment and all you need worry about is your skills, no matter how good of a pilot you are you will always be held back if you can't trust your helicopter. Currently you can buy an esky or similar set-up for around $60 delivered depending on where you go, you will spend double on the proper system but here is the catch, as your skills grow your equipment won't so will end up spending the double and you are already the original $60 in the drink. Try to look at it like this, you are not buying a system for your King, the King is just simply what you are currently flying and that will most likely change from time to time in your piloting career, you need to adopt the mind set that the equipment I buy now is for the next couple of birds and set yourself up so that you can just swap powerplants from bird to bird and you will save a ton in the long run. I like the Scorpion systems for several reasons, first being that I can run them on my Kings, HDX450's, Outrages, Falcons and pretty much anything else I want to strap it to under a 550. Second, the customer support and reliability has been so far second to none but with almost no failures reported (-0- warranty claims so far) the quality has proved to be as good as any on the market for much less money than comparable systems. Third, the performance is unreal (440-475w output) and the draw is relatively low for the bang you receive, you can pretty much gear them how you want and not bog them down, you can run them 3s or 4s for longer times or more snap and being a beginner I promise it is much easier to learn to fly with too much power than not enough.

I would also shave the bearing guides and either stack two on each side or run the cnc spacers I run on mine. The bearing stack seems to produce alot of wear and hair on the the belt but have had fairly good luck using that method. The spacers I have been running on every King I have owned and have yet to experience hair or failure yet on any them and one particular king that I use for testing has easily 300 hrs on it since early 2007. I hate to make you do it but look back in the thread and you will see the blue cnc spacers I am talking about, they are cheap and effective.

I would do the batwing tail blades as well, a larger surface will help offset torque from the main producing better tail stability and control. I think the microheli belt pulley upgrade will help, I am not a fan of the xtreme version and sell them both and can tell you with no doubt the M/H version is better (construction and machining wise) by far.

On the gyro, this is going to peeve some folks but I recommend staying with the rate gyro that comes stock til it craps out. You bought this helicopter to learn to fly it and become a helicopter pilot, while true you have to have some assist but do you really want to spend extra money for some electronic piece to fly your bird for you? This is just my philosophy and it is not for everyone and having said that, a good hh gyro will help you learn quicker and it does make the heli more stable for quicker advancement but I would not go big here. I would go telebee since they are as good as it gets under a hundred bucks and they do work very well on 450's and under.

Keep in mind that these are all my opinions and yes, I do sell all of these products, but why would I be selling other stuff if I knew there was better for the same or less money, I leave that up to the LHS folks, lol.

JAY FORTAY

thanks Rusty,
How much would these upgrdades run all together? Do you do any packages other than the ones listed on your website?

betapilot

Sure man, tell me what you want or if you are not sure of the exact pieces I can assist, but let me know and I will be glad to put you a "welcome to the thread" package together for you.

joizeex

did you guys know about this new Esky 500 class heli? in case you didn't, i just ran across the listing
http://www.rc711.com/shop/product_in...roducts_id=679

fourenty

Well I did it. I just finish reading all 245 pages.

Thank you Rusty for this thread.

And thank you to everyone who posted all this valuable information.

Fourenty

Kelownan

My Feedback: (1)

Yes and ive been looking forward to it alot,

Got sick to death of trying to remedy my belt tension, so ive moved up to a king3 Main frame and Tail boom,
The king3 boom is 10mm now i have no worries with the belt. troulbe is i now have a ton of spare king2 booms ha haa.
also got an angle tray fitted, im loving almost perfect CG.

Kelownan

My Feedback: (1)

for the benefit of JAY FORTAY who asked about belt tension in a PM, i usually sand the end of the boom with some 120 grit wet'n'dry sand paper, the idea being that it creates a grippier surface for the frame to grab on to.

Regarding the boom upgrade - its proberbly more expensive to use this method but in my case i was gettin belt rubbing for some reason and it didnt matter how tight the belt was, i't didnt resolve til i bought a king3 tailboom set. so essentially my King2 is now a king3

If the sanding fix doesnt work then you could replace the phillips screws with some hex nuts.

If you go for the full shi-bang boom upgrade

download the King3 Manual and grab the part numbers for the king3 tail boom Parts.
https://www.ushobbysupply.com/downlo...42ae76efa1655b

You will need the main frame and dont forget the belt bearing guides like i did

good luck
Kel

joizeex

Or, you can convert it to HBK V1 shaft driven tail. It has its pros and cons as well. The parts can still be found all over; i know because i order them. It also has a better main-to-tail ratio than V2 belt version. Shaft driven ratio is 5:1 where as belt is 3.6:1. Since i started with HBK1 almost 4 years ago, i just put on HBK2 skids and battery hanger on HBK1 frame-tail. worked great

i really would like to see how the Esky 500 does. I mean Trexs and Raptors are nice helis, but everyone's mother flies them, so i like to see underdogs and less common brands perform just as well and better than mainstream.

so today i was flying with 11T and the pullout power has returned to what it was, but the set screw on the pinion got loose 2 mins into the flight and i had to make a faux-autorotation (pretty much a slow drop from 10' lol). Good thing this was on grass and the blades are stiffer than the plastic Extreme ones, so no boom strike; awesome.

betapilot

Hey guys, my apologies to anyone trying to reach me by email or pm today, my daughter decided to give my computer a bath (2nd time, 2nd computer) so I was sidelined for today but I will get around to any messages as fast as I can. Sorry for any inconveniences and appreciate everyones patience.

Did you flat spot your output shaft before you installed your pinion? Set screws only work properly with flatspots on the output shafts, if not you still have to use loctite of they will slip.