Esky Helicopters Discuss the line of Esky electric helis in here including the Honey Bee, Lama, Belt CP, etc

Honeybee King v2 tuner shop

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Old 07-13-2007, 06:34 PM
  #51  
tbaus
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Default RE: Honeybee King v2 tuner shop

FMB42, By the way.. I pulled out an extra motor ( 370 class) that I had laying around, still in the package that is listed for use in the Eflite Blade CP. It has a 10T 0.5M pinion. ( listed on the packaging) I am guessing 0.5M is what we need. Live and learn.
I too learned to fly fixed wing years before the internet boom. Back in those days, you pretty much had to discover everything by yourself. The internet is a wealth of knowledge. The trouble is separating the wheat from the chaff. Some people truly know what they are talking about, others talk but have no basis in fact. That is why, when I find someone like Rusty, someone who is "doing" before speaking, I listen. It is funny how some people experience a single incidence of an occurance and then spread the "fact" that this occurance will happen and will happen in all cases. I have read how a certain heli is "junk" when I have personal experience otherwise. Perhaps it takes more skill to set up and does not arrive at your door all setup, but it is not junk. I guess these people don't posess good statistical analysis skills. I try not to present something as a fact unless I have personal knowledge of the fact. We all can make mistakes, but I try to not be a disseminator of fallacy. Having said all that, there is a wealth of knowledge on the internet and here at RCU in particular.
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Old 07-14-2007, 08:20 AM
  #52  
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Default RE: Honeybee King v2 tuner shop

I try not to present something as a fact unless I have personal knowledge of the fact.
This is why I use lots of "IIRC"s and "just my 0.02 worth"s in my posts. Besides, I learned long ago that what works for one person may not work for another. There is a lot of "data" available these days and we just need to organize or process this data into useful "information". Beta, and many others, talk from experience, so it pays to listen.
And I understand what you're saying about using the term "junk". Does anyone here remember the days when a Honda was considered as junk?
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Old 07-15-2007, 11:32 PM
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Default RE: Honeybee King v2 tuner shop

Hey guys - Hows tricks? I thought I would post my next brainstorm here and offer it out to whoever needs one. Originally I did the collar fix for the lowering belt syndrome and it has worked very well from reports back. Well, as things go, I have developed the next generation of upgrade/tweak for the lowering belt syndrome that I feel will work as well but offer a little more security. Something about a brass race just didn't work well with me, very loose tolerances, so I felt a bearing would work better in that spot to reduce drag and friction and wear. I could not find the right I/d and O/d and heighth, so I talked with a bearing mfg here in the city and they are making me some bearings per spec that will replace the collar all together. It should be better fit with better tolerances and should still be pretty inexpensive. They are supposed to be ready by the end of the week and I will let everyone know a cost soon.

Rusty
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Old 07-16-2007, 02:52 PM
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Default RE: Honeybee King v2 tuner shop

I just got confirmation that the pinions where shipped. As soon as I get them I'll post some pics if the differance is visable as I think it should be.
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Old 07-16-2007, 06:12 PM
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Default RE: Honeybee King v2 tuner shop


ORIGINAL: betapilot

Hey guys - Hows tricks? I thought I would post my next brainstorm here and offer it out to whoever needs one. Originally I did the collar fix for the lowering belt syndrome and it has worked very well from reports back. Well, as things go, I have developed the next generation of upgrade/tweak for the lowering belt syndrome that I feel will work as well but offer a little more security. Something about a brass race just didn't work well with me, very loose tolerances, so I felt a bearing would work better in that spot to reduce drag and friction and wear. I could not find the right I/d and O/d and heighth, so I talked with a bearing mfg here in the city and they are making me some bearings per spec that will replace the collar all together. It should be better fit with better tolerances and should still be pretty inexpensive. They are supposed to be ready by the end of the week and I will let everyone know a cost soon.

Rusty

Rusty,
Is this bearing specifically to keep the belt in check and avoid a dreaded belt jump?

If so I'd be interested when you get them in to see pics of the install and how it works out for you. I don't yet have my HBK2, but it's only going to take 1 belt jump or slip for me to do the Rusty Bearing Upgrade :P.
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Old 07-17-2007, 03:05 AM
  #56  
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Default RE: Honeybee King v2 tuner shop

quote:

ORIGINAL: betapilot

Hey guys - Hows tricks? I thought I would post my next brainstorm here and offer it out to whoever needs one. Originally I did the collar fix for the lowering belt syndrome and it has worked very well from reports back. Well, as things go, I have developed the next generation of upgrade/tweak for the lowering belt syndrome that I feel will work as well but offer a little more security. Something about a brass race just didn't work well with me, very loose tolerances, so I felt a bearing would work better in that spot to reduce drag and friction and wear. I could not find the right I/d and O/d and heighth, so I talked with a bearing mfg here in the city and they are making me some bearings per spec that will replace the collar all together. It should be better fit with better tolerances and should still be pretty inexpensive. They are supposed to be ready by the end of the week and I will let everyone know a cost soon.

Rusty



Let us know what you come up with on the belt/bearing mod. I been hunting down bearings but coming up with some odd combos. My real issue is the screw that holds the bearings for the belt. Its too short for what I want to try. As for the rollers, they made them too narrow and offset to high. These roller/bearings need to be wider than the belt. At least thats how the belts run a on Nitro RC car. My serpents runs three bearings, about double the width of the belt for side play amd movement.
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Old 07-17-2007, 03:16 AM
  #57  
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Default RE: Honeybee King v2 tuner shop

Made some proper training gear for my friends HBK2. Stock ones were a bit small. Used 2x 5mm dia by 24 inch carbon rods and 2 sets of fishing floaters. Red floaters are 1 inch & the yellow are 1.25 inch so the rods lay even on the floor. Just place the 1.25" floater rod on top of the 1" rod to give a level platform and tie wrap it to the skids. Cost about 14 bucks in parts and should be correct for the blade span of the HBK2.
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Old 07-17-2007, 10:37 PM
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Default RE: Honeybee King v2 tuner shop

here is a lousy pic of my belt guide mod. Since you mentioned it, lol. The bearing mod will be very cool, I can't wait. I will post pics when they arrive

Rusty

Ps. I have one arf kit already brushless with a castle creations phoenix 25 and a hacker b/l 3700 kv for sale. Kit is brand new and built to order and the guy fell through so I have already done the collar upgrade and was thinking of putting one of my green tail booms on it but I will let it go as is for $175. I know, it sounds expensive but the equipment on this heli is first rate and you know the installation is the best money can buy, lol.
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Old 07-18-2007, 12:03 AM
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Default RE: Honeybee King v2 tuner shop

Are you using the stock screw with the rollers?? My mod was to take out the top spacer and install another flanged bearing. This would use either 4 original bearings or a slightly smaller flanged bearing, but wider than the spacer, so it would move the lower bearing downwards giving you good width on the belt. My concern was with the screw not being long enough. I did install 2 bearings together, but I don't trust that short of a screw threading in the frame. I can still pull it off with just a longer screw, but I want one with a longer shoulder shank instead. Still searching for that ideal screw. My Serpent RC bearings are larger then I can use right now.
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Old 07-18-2007, 12:15 AM
  #60  
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Default RE: Honeybee King v2 tuner shop

I went with a 2.5 x 7mm screw, had to search but found them and they thread pretty far into the frame, hold very well.

Rusty
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Old 07-18-2007, 12:26 AM
  #61  
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Default RE: Honeybee King v2 tuner shop

Funny thing! I just looked closely at those blue rollers you have and they almost like a traxxas part I'm using as a spacer mod for my Serpent 710 front shock towers.
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Old 07-18-2007, 07:07 AM
  #62  
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Default RE: Honeybee King v2 tuner shop

Hey Rusty, Nice Gyro How's that eval coming?
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Old 07-18-2007, 07:50 PM
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Default RE: Honeybee King v2 tuner shop

OK guys, here is my belt mod. Drove up to Boca Bearing today and pulled some bearings. Consists of stacking 2 bearings and using a M2 (2mm) fine thread bolt. I deleted the original bearing on bottom, and installed one 2x5x2.3 flanged bearing on the bottom, one 2x5x2mm bearing in the middle and the cone washer back on top. Was not too hard to install, but allows more space for the belt without touching the frame. The cone was installed to center the middle bearing. I used Du-Bo 2mm 12 socket head cap screws. They need to be trimmed about 2-3 mm on the end because they slightly stick out touching the servo mount. Pics show 2 installs. I tried 2 2x5x3mm flanged original bearings, but they touch the frame. Actually the original bearing with either 2mm or 2.3mm bearing proved to be too close or tight in the frame because you have to delete the cone spacer. [sm=50_50.gif]

UPDATE!![sm=biggrin.gif]
Finally uploaded the pics installed with the belt. You can actually see the belt is now higher on one side than the other. This is due to the 90 Deg twist. My belt would jump off on the left side. This is the 2x5x2mm & 2x5x2.3mm flanged bearing stacked with original cone spacer on top.
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Old 07-18-2007, 11:18 PM
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Default RE: Honeybee King v2 tuner shop

My tail belt has been fine so far. I smoked my esc on flight number 10. From day one I noticed the stock motor and esc got extremely hot and it was really heating up my lipos. Gear mesh was fine. I ordered a brushless setup. Day that it arrived I was doing a couple of flights and planed to install the brushless later that evening. During the flight I lost power about 60% through the pack and I though maybe the heat got to the pack but when I got it on the ground I saw a flash under the canopy. Quickly ran up to it and unplugged the batt. Heli had that nice component smell. :^) Took the esc apart to find that one of the major traces had fried. I know electronics and soldered a bridge in place. Esc was back for action but another 30 seconds on the heli burned the other trace across the mosfets. This time I just the esc and found that the smell was actually coming from the motor. Not sure what burned up inside the can but didn't investigate it any further and in the trash it went. Motor still spun ok but assume it was drawing way too many amps. I am using the ESKY 3100kv brushless motor with a 10 tooth pinion. Seems to work great. Batterys now just get slightly warm (not burning hot like with the stock setup). Motor is just warm to the touch and same with the Dynam 25A speed control. Upgrade cost was about $55 total. Run times doubled. I have 9 tooth and 11 tooth pinions as well but I think I am going with the ain't broke don't fix it idea. Not sure what head speed I am getting and if there will need to be adjustments once I get to the skill level to flip it inverted. I used the same training gear for my honeybee mk3 and had no problems. Just rubber banded them to the skids. I did make a plastic plate that is glued to the bottom of the battery tray extending it about a inch and a half so I could move the battery forward for balance. One doubled over rubberband holds the batt to the plate securely. Love this heli. I have a ikarus viper 70 that I am tuning in but this king is twice as stable.
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Old 07-19-2007, 01:06 AM
  #65  
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Default RE: Honeybee King v2 tuner shop

I ordered the ESky BL motor & 25amp ESC. From the ratings draw on that combo, the stock battery is gone out the door. I believe the stock battery is good for 10 amp draw. The BL motor is a 15 amp rated draw which is above the stock battery's amp draw rating. I'm looking for a 15 or 22 c battery in the range of 1800 to 2200 mAh. This is heavier, and should properly balance the CG better than having the stock battery hang off the front. Also, the motor will have over 15 amps of burst draw at times. I just got to make sure that the battery fits the frame in that rating.
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Old 07-19-2007, 08:03 AM
  #66  
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Default RE: Honeybee King v2 tuner shop

Which esky brushless did you get? Mine is the 3100kv which has a max amp draw of 13 amps. The 3800kv model is a 20 amp max motor so if thats what you have then you would need a different battery. By using the 3100kv with a 10 tooth pinion means there is less strain on the motor. I haven't checked it yet but I bet I am under the 10 amps the stock battery is rated for. Besides that I can tell the battery lasts much longer and the fact that it is slightly warm are all signs its pulling less amps than the stock setup. I get over ten minutes with the stock batteries with forward flight so I don't require a larger pack. Plus I have two duratrax ice chargers but since they don't do the cell balancing I tend to use the esky charger often so larger pack means longer charge time.
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Old 07-19-2007, 09:33 AM
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Default RE: Honeybee King v2 tuner shop

I ordered the 3800 KV, which ESky stated stated 15 amp draw. Got it with a 9T pinion. Thats why I don't trust using this with stock battery.
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Old 07-19-2007, 10:01 AM
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Default RE: Honeybee King v2 tuner shop

I smoked my esc on flight number 10.
spyder,
I got 19 or 20 flights out of mine. My K2 lost power while maybe 25% into the pack and slowly dropped to the floor. Found zero voltage at the ESC output with 10.5v input. Hm.... Now I know why I had that "money up in smoke" electronics smell during a couple of flights before. The good thing is that I picked up a 3100kv Esky motor and 25 amp ESC. The bad thing is that they are both in "used" condition. The guy I bought these from ran them for me and I tested them again at home. This was a "no load" test though.

Anyway, thanks for the info on your motor/pinion/ESC/batt combo. If your happy with this combo then I should be happy as well.
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Old 07-19-2007, 10:04 AM
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Default RE: Honeybee King v2 tuner shop

So is there a kit for brushless+ESC+pinion to be able to use the standard Lipo batts?
I have 3 spare Blade CPP batteries that I can also use, depending on the wireing of the blalance plus and receiver plug...

Please advise.
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Old 07-19-2007, 10:54 AM
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Default RE: Honeybee King v2 tuner shop

Not a kit. I bought everything from helidirect.com I bought the following:

Esky 3100kv motor ($19.99)
Dynam 25A brushless speed control ($21.00) They currently show out of stock but carry the Dynam 18A speed control for $18.00 which will also handle the 3100kv motor.
Motor pinion set for 2.3mm bore ($3.99) part #ELE020. This comes with 9t, 10t, 11t pinion. This give you some room for experimentation. 10t work fine for my basic flight skills.

Total cost before shipping with the 18A speed control is $41.98 and add the cost of your favority battery connector for the speed control. I use standard deans on everything. The stock batts come with jst connectors.
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Old 07-19-2007, 01:24 PM
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Default RE: Honeybee King v2 tuner shop

Hey guys, I have been reading all the battery hype and it is not really that crucial. I run an eflite 10c 800 mah battery, in fact they are my favorite battery due to weight. They only last about 5-7 minutes real flight time, but the stock battery will do the same at about 7-9 minutes. A battery that has a high c rating will discharge faster and if you run it in a 1800 -2200 mah battery, the extra power will be used up lifting and keeping the extra weight in the air. The ideal battery for long life and flight times is a 10-12c MAX and 1200-1350 mah and nothing over 90 grams. Look at it like this, if you use the "bathtub analogy" it will become evident to you that overpowering your bird with a big battery is a waste of money and time. The voltage is your pipe and the pressure contained therein, the mah rating is capacity that the bathtub will hold, and the c rating is the size of the valve allowing the water in. Running a big battery is like putting a really big fuel tank in your truck and then adding a gas mileage chip to increase fuel pressure and then running extra large fuel lines and then throwing a trailer loaded down with bricks on the back, are you going to get better gas mileage? no, you are only going to burn more fuel. Large batteries are for large helis with lots more power that can overcome the weight . I am currently running a 430xl with 60a esc on one of my kings and I run it with the eflite, the stock, a dynam 1200mah 12c, and an electrafly 910 mah 12c. All of these batteries will fly perfect for 5-7 minutes before the esc shuts it down from heat. I speak from experience here, not myth or braggart rights, and I can guarantee you that running these massive batteries will only create more heat, more wear and tear, and may extend your flight times by 2-3 minutes at best. Keep in mind the greater the discharge capacity, the greater the heat and your esc is designed to shut down at a given temp range, you should not fly a good battery more than 70% depleted anyway if you want it to last. I only fly my batteries for five minutes max anyway, my batteries usually last me two years pretty easily and will almost always meet their cycling capabilities running them that way. Heat and weight are our enemies and you should do everything possible to keep those variables in check, this is not drag racing guys, helis don't react well to force, they prefer finesse.
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Old 07-19-2007, 03:49 PM
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Default RE: Honeybee King v2 tuner shop

My vote is "braggart rights" Just kidding. Betapilot knows of which he speaks. Wise men will listen and take heed.......and some won't......
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Old 07-19-2007, 08:27 PM
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ezveedub, where did you get the skids? Thanks, Dave.
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Old 07-19-2007, 11:53 PM
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Default RE: Honeybee King v2 tuner shop


ORIGINAL: betapilot

Hey guys, I have been reading all the battery hype and it is not really that crucial. I run an eflite 10c 800 mah battery, in fact they are my favorite battery due to weight. They only last about 5-7 minutes real flight time, but the stock battery will do the same at about 7-9 minutes. A battery that has a high c rating will discharge faster and if you run it in a 1800 -2200 mah battery, the extra power will be used up lifting and keeping the extra weight in the air. The ideal battery for long life and flight times is a 10-12c MAX and 1200-1350 mah and nothing over 90 grams. Look at it like this, if you use the "bathtub analogy" it will become evident to you that overpowering your bird with a big battery is a waste of money and time. The voltage is your pipe and the pressure contained therein, the mah rating is capacity that the bathtub will hold, and the c rating is the size of the valve allowing the water in. Running a big battery is like putting a really big fuel tank in your truck and then adding a gas mileage chip to increase fuel pressure and then running extra large fuel lines and then throwing a trailer loaded down with bricks on the back, are you going to get better gas mileage? no, you are only going to burn more fuel. Large batteries are for large helis with lots more power that can overcome the weight . I am currently running a 430xl with 60a esc on one of my kings and I run it with the eflite, the stock, a dynam 1200mah 12c, and an electrafly 910 mah 12c. All of these batteries will fly perfect for 5-7 minutes before the esc shuts it down from heat. I speak from experience here, not myth or braggart rights, and I can guarantee you that running these massive batteries will only create more heat, more wear and tear, and may extend your flight times by 2-3 minutes at best. Keep in mind the greater the discharge capacity, the greater the heat and your esc is designed to shut down at a given temp range, you should not fly a good battery more than 70% depleted anyway if you want it to last. I only fly my batteries for five minutes max anyway, my batteries usually last me two years pretty easily and will almost always meet their cycling capabilities running them that way. Heat and weight are our enemies and you should do everything possible to keep those variables in check, this is not drag racing guys, helis don't react well to force, they prefer finesse.
betapilot-- agree with much of the above, but whatever you do the King will burn between 60 and 90 Watts in hover, regardless the current rating of the battery. What drives the power used is not the current capability of the battery but rather the powertrain drag, the weight it's trying to accelerate, and the maneuvers you do (how much acceleration you're demanding). The current capacity of the battery has nothing to do with how fast it discharges; however, the larger the battery capacity, the more it usually weighs, but some buck the trend; my current favorites are the Thunder Power ProLite 1350s-- at 80g they are the greatest, but the MegaPower 1350s at 100g fly well, too.

If you're running the same heli with the same motor with the same flight profile, head speed, and so forth, you'll get the same current draw no matter what current the battery can supply.

You should choose your battery such that it doesn't weigh too much, it fits in the airframe, and it can supply sufficient current. A good rule of thumb is to not use more than 75% of the battery's current capacity; a 1000mAh 10C battery, at 7.5A is only good for hovering. A 1350mAh 15C can be relied on to put out 15A, which is good for moderate aerobatics. 3D in the King 2 can require 20A, so you'd be looking for at least a 20C if you were using 1350s.

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Old 07-20-2007, 12:56 AM
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Default RE: Honeybee King v2 tuner shop

I have a brushless set up and run all my old blade cp batteries. I have been flying my king for about 4 months almost daily (we have great weather in CA!) with no problems.
I have the skyartec 4200KV motor too! I have not burned out a battery yet. I am flying the common sense rc 10Cbatts.
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