Esky Helicopters Discuss the line of Esky electric helis in here including the Honey Bee, Lama, Belt CP, etc

........."BELT-CP THREAD"........

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Old 10-12-2007, 02:09 PM
  #26
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Default RE: ........."BELT-CP THREAD"........

Did you do a run up test before you installed it? Maybe the tx throttle channel is reversed and when the stick is down, it thinks its full throttle?. Is there serious binding in the drive line? Maybe the motor is trying to spin the wrong direction, causing it to stall?

You may try a fuse from the battery to the esc. That way, the fuse blows before the esc?

I'm real happy with my beltCP. I find it even more stable than the TREX XL CDE that i had. Maybe might flying skills have gotten better, but this thing is solid as a rock. 2second hover with hands free. I know its not much, but its more than i have ever gotten on any cp bird.
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Old 10-12-2007, 07:46 PM
  #27
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Default RE: ........."BELT-CP THREAD"........

I did all the proper set up's like;motor break in, good mesh, wire connections & etc. So, rigth now I dont know why or what the deal is and I cant spend another $40 on a ESC and maybe motor too. I guess im gonna sit at the side-lines for now until I purchase a new one or get a returned ESC (which I doubt).
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Old 10-13-2007, 01:36 AM
  #28
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Default RE: ........."BELT-CP THREAD"........

Hi gadgetkeith, we were talking about this very topic in another post found here http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_6378073/tm.htm

I'll repost what I've experienced

There's tons of good arguements towards Either. As an owner of both helicopter I can say from a newcomers point of view it would be very hard to pick one over the other.

In my experience from working with, and modifying both, here is what I've noted as I'm sure other's will as well....

Honey bee king 2
- Very light and stable for it's weight, but doesnt take abuse from the wind
- can be flown indoors as it's soo small
- batteries and other electronics can be less money as it requires less power
- has several hop up parts from esky
- doesn't need a complex expensive radio to fly good because of it's simplified servo and head location.

Belt Cp
- Flies better that King 2 in heavier winds
- Shouldn't really be flown indoors unless in a gymnasium or large space
- Replacement parts are some of the most inexpensive for it's class
- Needs a good radio like futaba 7chp or spektrum dx7 because the sevo and head links are soo complex (good to have sub trim and delay)
- More stable when attempting 3d than king 2
- takes a crash easier than King 2, certainly stronger and more durable in part because of it's size
- Has tons of hop up parts from Esky, and BONUS is compatible with most all align and HDX parts (HUGE PLUS)


Overall I find both helicopters are a great design and good quality. It all breaks down to what the user wants.
If you want to just get a taste of Radio Control heli's and not fork out the cash I'd go with the King 2. Good for flying indoors and light winds with moderate 3d. Not much maintenance.
If you want to and are thinking about becoming hardcore in the future, want to do stunts and big tricks want to or already have a good radio I'd go for the belt cp. It's the cheapest in it's class for a 450 sized heli. Good for flying anywhere and can take a more aggresive flight routine.

Both are a small investment money wise no matter how far you want to get into heli's and be it whichever you choose, you should have good results in the end.

Cheers
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Old 10-13-2007, 02:03 AM
  #29
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Default RE: ........."BELT-CP THREAD"........

What exactly smoked? The motor FETS or the BEC. If it is the motor FETs, the only thing I have seen cause that is a short in the motor winding or between the wires. My ESC and motor both went when my ARF arrived after 10 flights. The motor started jittering and eventually overheated the ESC and turns out the motor mount screws were too long and were touching the inner coils in the motor and wore through the insulation, shorting them. If the BEC smoked, you have a bad servo or bad servo connections. On these Belts, the servo arm on the rudder is too long and if you use a HH gyro and let the rudder creep, it will bind and can smoke a BEC from the excess current. I use a different arm which even in full creep the servo does not bind. A binding servo will eat itself and the BEC if it is not a good one. I have seen servos melt their own cases before because the user forgot to unhook his rudder servo during set-up of his swashplate and pitch.
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Old 10-13-2007, 02:13 AM
  #30
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Default RE: ........."BELT-CP THREAD"........

3kgt, for diagnosis we need to know when it's smoking and go over a checklist.

first thing

1. you are getting headspeed so obviously it is spooling up but are you getting in the air before it starts smoking?
2. what is the C rating on your batteries?
3. what pinion are you running on your motor? and I assume because it's copterX this is the align clone motor with 3550kv?
4. Have you checked to make sure the head is running clockwise when you set it up?

If it is the align copterX clone motor I know it likes to have a 30A esc or higher, I'm not sure what speed control is provided with it. If it's the motor smoking it could be a matter of very high gearing putting too much stress and high RPM's.

Meanwhile with the other posts, I too have yet to experience any problems still. I did lube the tail belt early on because it was so stiff upon purchase. The spindle and main shaft haven't needed any attention, the only thing I've found recently is the blade grips found they're way a little loose and when I tighten them it's a lot stiffer for the servo's to change the pitch. I had a good flight today finally getting everything trimmed out where I like it. I ran a 1700mah 11.1v 20c battery and it lasted a whopping 14 minutes. The battery was 41*C after flight in 7*C weather.
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Old 10-13-2007, 09:34 AM
  #31
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Default RE: ........."BELT-CP THREAD"........

Meanwhile with the other posts, I too have yet to experience any problems still. I did lube the tail belt early on because it was so stiff upon purchase. The spindle and main shaft haven't needed any attention, the only thing I've found recently is the blade grips found they're way a little loose and when I tighten them it's a lot stiffer for the servo's to change the pitch. I had a good flight today finally getting everything trimmed out where I like it. I ran a 1700mah 11.1v 20c battery and it lasted a whopping 14 minutes. The battery was 41*C after flight in 7*C weather.
[/quote]

Careful with the grips, you don't want them tight. They should move smoothly as to not bind the collective servos which will put more strain on your BEC.
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Old 10-13-2007, 01:28 PM
  #32
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Default RE: ........."BELT-CP THREAD"........

The bec and esc aren't warm to the touch after flight, I used the rubber o-rings that come with t-rex because they are thicker and bigger. The grips seem to have less slop and more acurate movement for pitch.

Is anyone else using this gyro still that came with the stock heli? I have used pretty much every single position on the gain pot and moved the servo on the boom but I still find no matter what the setting it has quite a large creep to the right. I know it's non heading hold and only 29 bucks..... but I thought if there's any way to get better results why not ask.
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Old 10-13-2007, 05:11 PM
  #33
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Default RE: ........."BELT-CP THREAD"........

hello to all, i´m about to get a esky belt cp, but i got a little bit confuse, i´m not an expert, i´m just a newby. i start with a walkera 22e, took me some time to understand and tune it with the help of the menbers that post the walkera22 let´s talk, but now i can hoover, make it fly around me. so,some one said the electronic in this heli is not good, well they say the same thing about walkera´s, the ESC doesnt have a program card, should i get a better one?, the gyro shlod be replaced too is that right? are the ESKY electronic so bad as the walkera?i realy need to know. i konow that RTF in japonese mean´s the rotor spins , and i have to re-check everything, but is it or not a nice heli?
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Old 10-13-2007, 06:19 PM
  #34
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Default RE: ........."BELT-CP THREAD"........

You can hoover? Vaccumes can't fly. lol But no the question pertaining to the quality is nothing like walkera. E-sky and walkera are in completely different catagories when it comes to quality. Every walkera heli i've seen or worked on has had problems or poor quality parts. I have owned 3 esky's with the stock electronics and have yet needed to replace the parts for any of them.

Some people would say you need to upgrade the speed control and gyro, but if you are a newb the stock electronics are more than enough to meet the demands, as you go along and break things here and there.... then I would upgrade instead of buying the same stock parts. The only thing I would upgrade right off the batt is the motor and esc if you are using the non brushless but the benefit of buying the belt cp ready to fly is it "DOES" come with brushless, lipo and BL speed control.

The belt cp is a great way to start out if your fixed for cash and cant buy a dragonus or t-rex.

Cheers
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Old 10-13-2007, 06:59 PM
  #35
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Default RE: ........."BELT-CP THREAD"........

Quote:
ORIGINAL: chris6414

What exactly smoked? The motor FETS or the BEC. If it is the motor FETs, the only thing I have seen cause that is a short in the motor winding or between the wires. My ESC and motor both went when my ARF arrived after 10 flights. The motor started jittering and eventually overheated the ESC and turns out the motor mount screws were too long and were touching the inner coils in the motor and wore through the insulation, shorting them. If the BEC smoked, you have a bad servo or bad servo connections. On these Belts, the servo arm on the rudder is too long and if you use a HH gyro and let the rudder creep, it will bind and can smoke a BEC from the excess current. I use a different arm which even in full creep the servo does not bind. A binding servo will eat itself and the BEC if it is not a good one. I have seen servos melt their own cases before because the user forgot to unhook his rudder servo during set-up of his swashplate and pitch.
The motor smoked and all of the soder from the ESC all melted and joined together so it's definitly toasted but the motor may still be working. The sad part is today I received the crystal for the FS8 rx and now I need to wait and get a new ESC and maybe motor. When I decide to get a new ESC, I dont know if I should get another low end BL & ESC or just get a ALIGN set up. Unfortunately, I wont be repairing or replacing anything else soon so im just gonna sit back and absorb heli knowledge.
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Old 10-13-2007, 09:46 PM
  #36
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Default RE: ........."BELT-CP THREAD"........

Crashinbash... I have read lots of complaints about Walkera products.. many from people who never owned them, as well as owners. I also read a bunch of complaints about Esky products.. I own 3 Walkera 22E's.. None of them has needed anything replaced that wasn't the result of a crash. I have 3 Esky HBK's. I had one servo go bad without crashing.. I think both companies build products that are good and bad. I love my HBK's.. I hate the cheapo motors Esky put's in them. Walkera seems to have a lot of problems with their PCM line of transmitters, but my experience with their FM stuff is they work great. Bottom line: I think there are lemons made in all products. All products have strong points and weak points, especially when it comes to R/C helis in the sub $200 range.. they are all a far cry from being perfect.. I think I got my money's worth in both the Walkera 22E's and the HBKs.. As for preference.. I like my HBK's better than my Walkera 22E's.. The 22E can't take the crash damage a HBK can take... Cheers
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Old 10-14-2007, 12:16 AM
  #37
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Default RE: ........."BELT-CP THREAD"........

True to that, I've had lemons like cp2 with poor instructions and impossible setups to great experience with the belt cp. I just find that at least E-sky makes a valid attempt to put out a sub-english instruction book with they're product, and use good strong platics and nylon in kits. I can't say walkera is garbage because they do fly and when setup correctly with good aluminum hop ups they fly even better. There must be something to walkera heli's... enough that a company like Venom would want to brand clones of they're product with the company logo on it. In just the same respect I've now seen recently Exceed RC is selling E-sky heli's simply relabeled with they're logo.

The only major issue that leaves walkera behind the rest is quality control. Too many times in a forum you hear someone stating this or that didn't come with the kit, peices broken or on the verge of breaking on first flight. They are only now starting to make respectible designs of heli's that will produce good results. They seem to make one new design for every month in a year totaling more than 12 different heli's. E-sky is just now only working on they're 8th heli design in the last 10 years.

Cheers
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Old 10-14-2007, 12:31 AM
  #38
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Default RE: ........."BELT-CP THREAD"........

True enough.. Walkera seems to attempt to put out too many different helis.. I still find it amazing that you can buy a RTF heli for $150 delivered to your door. (Walkera 22E $120 delivered-- HBK $150 delivered) My first digital system was a used 6 channel system that cost me $250.. and that was a deal.. Mind you, that was when you could order a new car from the factory for $3600. ( my dad ordered a new car the year before I bought the used radio(something called EK Logitrol)) $250 was a crap load of money... I mowed a lot of lawns and delivered a lot of newspapers to get that money... Companys find ways to cut costs. Unfortunately they sometimes cut the QA too much. .. It all adds up to a good reason to buy from someone in your same country who will stand behind the product rather than have a heli shipped in from China where shipping costs about the same as the product.
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Old 10-14-2007, 01:07 AM
  #39
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Default RE: ........."BELT-CP THREAD"........

When you do, just stick with the ESky 3800 motor and maybe a 30A Dynam ESC from HD. It's run you about $55 for both or for $40 on EHirobo there is an ELF setup with motor and ESC. Can't vouch for them though. I can vouch for the ESky, as I have been running that set-up for months. The motor is more than likely dead, as it sounds like it was internally shorted and ate your ESC. Did you check the motor mount screws? I have know of at least 7 Helos of different manufacturers have this issue with screws that were just too long and touched the coils and shorted them to ground. ESCs don't like when you do that.
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Old 10-14-2007, 02:06 AM
  #40
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Default RE: ........."BELT-CP THREAD"........

Crash, I had the exact same problem with my king2, no matter what I did the tail would keep wanting to turn right. I replaced the stock gyro with a telebee tlb01 dual rate, HH gyro and the problem disappears. I've got a used gy401 sitting around that I think I'm going to test with a digital micro servo and see how well this tail can really hold.
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Old 10-14-2007, 10:07 AM
  #41
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Default RE: ........."BELT-CP THREAD"........

Quote:
ORIGINAL: mksubaru

hello to all, i´m about to get a esky belt cp, but i got a little bit confuse, i´m not an expert, i´m just a newby. i start with a walkera 22e, took me some time to understand and tune it with the help of the menbers that post the walkera22 let´s talk, but now i can hoover, make it fly around me. so,some one said the electronic in this heli is not good, well they say the same thing about walkera´s, the ESC doesnt have a program card, should i get a better one?, the gyro shlod be replaced too is that right? are the ESKY electronic so bad as the walkera?i realy need to know. i konow that RTF in japonese mean´s the rotor spins , and i have to re-check everything, but is it or not a nice heli?
They are all made in china, not japan. ESKY, Walkera and others. Only the subaru originated in japan. hehehe

but back on subject:
If it fly's better than your ability, there is no sense replacing stuff. Spend the money on spares learning to be a better pilot. I'm not the best pilot either, and thats what i do.


Quote:
ORIGINAL: crashinbash
Is anyone else using this gyro still that came with the stock heli? I have used pretty much every single position on the gain pot and moved the servo on the boom but I still find no matter what the setting it has quite a large creep to the right. I know it's non heading hold and only 29 bucks..... but I thought if there's any way to get better results why not ask.
Are you using the stock tx. If not, sub trim can help eliminate creep.
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Old 10-15-2007, 12:42 AM
  #42
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Default RE: ........."BELT-CP THREAD"........

USHobbysupply I am using my futaba 9chps and have tried sub trim to correct for the problem. When you set the gain pot good and begin to trim to the right it gets to the point where the gyro disengages.

Yeah Druss, I've also tried using the telebee zoom 500x gyro on the heli and the tail became a rock. I put it back on the t-rex after one test because I dont want to risk the more expensive equipt. till I can get into 3d maneuvers. I also tried the E-sky head locking gyro on a couple of my heli's. I don't know if it's coincidence but adjusting the gyro with avcs on my futaba fried 2 servo's trying on 2 different heli's. Both were standard servo's. One on my pixyzap100 and one on my E-sky HB COOL. The gyro still appears to be functional but I don't want to risk another servo. I find the telebee to be almost just as acurate as the GY401 when the weather isn't a factor.

I used a Dynam 40a esc on my t-rex and it was a hot potato. It works but the amount of energy wasted heatin up the esc is rediculous. More than likely just mine does this. It works but gets around 42*c within 30 seconds or normal flight. It'd probably like a seperate bec to cool down.
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Old 10-15-2007, 11:52 AM
  #43
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Default RE: ........."BELT-CP THREAD"........

Ah. I love the 9chp. sold my trex and 7chp and upgraded to 9chp. So happy i did. Much more feature rich radio.

Sorry about the servo creep. I'm out of ideas right now.

How do you like th pixiezap100?

Michael
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Old 10-15-2007, 01:49 PM
  #44
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Default RE: ........."BELT-CP THREAD"........

Yeah I wouldn't give this radio for any other. I like it more than 12z.

The Pixy Zap is a great little heli. It's wonderful because of the size of the batteries, I can fly for 8 minutes and then it's only half hour to charge. The heli is very fidgity and you need precise control on the sticks. I've only flown it indoors so far, we've had 18km winds pretty much all of this year. Almost all I can do is hover and a little forward flight..... this is deffinatly meant for more intermediate to advanced pilots but it's fun to work on. Mine weighs in at only 168g without battery so you can imagine any wind at all will throw it off.

Repair parts cost almost next to nothing, you could buy almost a whole heli in parts for 65.00USD. The head needs to be upgraded a bit right off the batt. My plastic swashplate, the top mount was simply glued onto the inner bearing and came off during first flight. A couple screws worked they're way loose also so it's good to CA screws in that you won't need to remove later on.

Size comparison in the last picture, from left to right my : pixy zap, Honey bee COOL, Belt cp
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Old 11-04-2007, 06:40 PM
  #45
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Default RE: ........."BELT-CP THREAD"........

CrashinBash and US Hobby Supply,

I see that the both of you are using the Futaba 9chp with your belt CP. Can you forward to me the various settings that you use in your radio setup. I'm currently converting over to the futaba as well and have it so that I can fly the heli but not sure if I have the radio dialed in correctly.
Thanks in advance,
Mickey
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Old 11-04-2007, 09:45 PM
  #46
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Default RE: ........."BELT-CP THREAD"........


Quote:
ORIGINAL: AZTWINS

CrashinBash and US Hobby Supply,

I see that the both of you are using the Futaba 9chp with your belt CP. Can you forward to me the various settings that you use in your radio setup. I'm currently converting over to the futaba as well and have it so that I can fly the heli but not sure if I have the radio dialed in correctly.
Thanks in advance,
Mickey
I'd be happy to. Just dont have them in front of me, and its late. I'll get back to you in the AM.

PM me if i forget!!!!!

Michael
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Old 11-04-2007, 11:48 PM
  #47
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Default RE: ........."BELT-CP THREAD"........

Not sure if anyone has seen the carbon fiber version yet but I just received mine so thought I'd post some pics. All I've done so far is add the cnc tail components (stock is plastic), I'm going to install the following:

JR DS821 servos on swash
futaba S3154 digital servo on the tail
logictech 2100T gyro
align 430l motor and 35x esc
AR6100 receiver to go with my DX7
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Old 11-05-2007, 04:51 AM
  #48
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Default RE: ........."BELT-CP THREAD"........

I purchased the carbon fibre frame with my belt cp on sale and had quite a bit of aluminum head from my esky honey bee cool so I almost have a carbon fibre version belt cp. I have yet to fly it full stock setup but in testing someone else's I found there wasn't all that much difference in the flight characteristics than my plastic edition. The aluminum head did get rid of some slop and bad tracking but overall I almost liked my heavier version because there's always wind here. If you do go with the carbon version it's a good idea to get the aluminum upgrades for the CF frame now supplied by E-sky. The aluminum motor plate, sway bar link control, and aluminum main shaft holders are a big plus for that version.

As for the FUTABA 9chp settings here are mine as of late. The servo arms wouldn't center and I didn't bother adjusting the swash AFR I just did everything in sub trim to make it level.

Mode: PPM
End points: all 100/100
Sub Trim: Ail +110
Ele +44
Pit +77
Reverse: Ail REVERSED
Ele NORMAL
Thr REVERSED (esky esc)
Rud NORMAL
Gyr NORMAL
Pit NORMAL
Trim 4
4
0
36
SWASH AFR : AIL -50
ElE +50
PIT -50
PARAMETER : HELI (SR-3)
MODUL PPM
ATL ON
THR-CURVE : 0.0
45
65
80
100
PIT-CURVE : 40
48
50
75
100
MODE IDLE 2 THR-CURVE : 100
80
60
80
100
MODE ILDE 2 PIT-CURVE: 2
26
50
74
98

GYRO is set to INH or off because I am using the stock gyro but with the avcs heading hold gyro I had it set at 58% with no tail wag

Your sub trim and pitch curves may be different when you set it up so make sure you check all your trims to -7 and +7 and full neg and full pos. I like to run my motor a little more aggressive so the throttle curve is a little higher than some others would like it. I am still learning more intense flying so I like a punch right at take off. Also when I used the stock gyro I had to reverse the switch next to the gain pot for the esky non heading hold gyro to engage properly.

The sun broke out at 8am this morning so I thought I'd get a small flight in while it wasn't raining before the Football games today Pictures (8am, 6*C, 7km wind)

cheers
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Old 11-05-2007, 11:03 AM
  #49
GTX SlotCar
 
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Default RE: ........."BELT-CP THREAD"........

Has anyone changed the main shaft yet? Can you tell me what's involved?

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Old 11-05-2007, 11:40 AM
  #50
Druss
 
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Default RE: ........."BELT-CP THREAD"........

funny you mention that because I bought all the aluminum upgrades I could get.

1 x CNC Motor Mount Set EK5-0443 - Belt CP EK5-0443 (EK5-0443) = $3.36

1 x CNC Screw Aluminum Cannula EK5-0451 - Belt CP (EK5-0451) = $3.75

1 x CNC Servo and Horizontal fin set EK5-0449 - Belt CP (EK5-0449) = $6.50

1 x CNC The Bearing Holder of Drive Belt Wheel EK5-0450 - Belt CP (EK5-0450) = $4.50

1 x CNC Front Rear Rudder Controller EK5-0447 - Belt CP (EK5-0447) = $6.50

1 x CNC Bearing set on Main Shaft EK5-0444 - Belt CP (EK5-0444) = $7.50

1 x CNC Swashplate Mount - Belt CP EK5-0445 (EK5-0445) = $2.49

1 x Carbon Fiber Tail Boom - Esky Belt CP EK4-0153 (EK4-0153) = $11.54

by the time I'm done this sucker will have as little plastic as possible.
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