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  1. #1

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    ........."BELT-CP THREAD"........

    since the belt-cp posts are coming up more. i think it will be better & easier for newbie/experienced people to try keeping belt-cp talk in one thread instead of all over the place. like this we can get more people interested in this awesome but "underrated" little heli.

  2. #2
    chris6414's Avatar
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    RE: ........."BELT-CP THREAD"........

    Tips:

    1. There is no such thing as ready to fly out of the box!

    2. Check every screw and bolt on the machine for tightness when you get it

    3. If you’ve never flown, find someone who has to help. If you can’t find someone, your SOL and don’t you dare fly around people or populated areas!

    4. Make trainer gear, or get a second job to pay for all the parts you will need.

    5. Read the directions that came with your radio so you understand what all the buttons and switches do.

    6. Learn about your batteries and their care. You can easily ruin them if you don’t understand how they function. (charging and discharging).

    7. While setting up the helo, (servos) disconnect the motor. Take it from me, rotors hurt when they hit you. I have the scares to prove it.

    8. Ensure all the servos move smoothly and do not bind. To be safe with so-called ARFs, take off all the servo horns before you power up the helo. If they are not centered they can strip or burn out on power up from binding.

    9. Center trims on radio and check that swashplate and paddles are absolutely level to each other. Make sure tail rotors are neutral and have 0 degrees pitch for Heading hold gyros. For rate gyros or heading lock you can set the pitch slightly to the right to compensate for torque during throttle up. When in doubt, READ THE DIRECTIONS THAT CAME WITH THE GYRO.

    10. On the first flight, check the rudder and make sure the gyro holds the tail without wagging and the trim is straight. A helo with a tail that does not behave will not fly. Don’t try anything else until the rudder is right.

    11. When learning to hover, keep the tail pointed at you and think like you are in the cockpit. IE: Left rudder stick is left nose in the helicopter, not left tail.

    12. When you get into trouble, and you will, think ROTORS LEVEL. If your going to crash, that is best position to be in.

    13. All crashes require a witness!




    I have been pleased with my helo to date other than the occasional glitching that I had in the beginning. Cheap receiver and transmitter set-up is causing that I'm sure. Installing a Berg 7P today to hopefully rid me of this.

    I'm no "finless" with regards to helos but I am a basic pilot with about 15 years of Nitro planes and 2 years of Helos to help in coping with the frustration of flying RC aircraft. Before you attempt setup, be sure your motor is unplugged and the rudder servo is unplugged. HH gyros can eat servos (I'll explain later)

    1st: Helos in this size, or any size for that matter, require CONSTANT input on the sticks. In a perfectly calm condition you may be able to get "hands off" for a few seconds. Grab a mirror and marble, and hold the mirror with the marble on the glass and try to keep the marble in the center. That's the type of concentration and constant input it takes to hover, say in a 12 inch space of air. Where you are at now, I would get or make a set of trainer gear which when used properly, will let you hover and have some rough touchdowns without breaking things. I'll have you know, I used a set of "un-cool" trainer gear for 3 months before I took them off on a dragonfly #4. I only crashed once with them on.

    Normal mode: Sorry no 3D experience

    2nd: If this is your first Helo (rotor on top and rotor on the tail) not coax, then the mechanical set-up is critical to a decent flying (or shall we say for now) hovering machine. Luckily for me I had a chance to work on 3 Belts before mine came.

    The first thing I would start with is the servos and their linkages to the swash plate. The servo arms should be as close to 90 Degrees as possible. Next, I removed the ball link from the swash and from the servo on both sides and made sure that Bell crank (servo to swash) was both snug(screw) and smooth. You can't check it hooked up. Every ARF I have seen was loose. Tighten them down and be sure they do not bind and every 10 flights or so check them. Do the same with the elevator servo. Once checked, re-attach arms to the swash. Turn on the radio and then the helo and be sure the trims are centered. Check your Swash plate and ensure it is level front to back and side to side and even at the 8 and 2 o'clock etc.

    Next check the washout assy. Those screws are usually loose and can cause the "wandering fly bar" which will make "helo all over the place" even worse, much worse. I use finger tips on my screw drivers and snug them that way. If you're gripping hard, it is too much force. You can even disconnect the upper and lower linkages to check for binding.

    Next I check my main blade, pitch linkages. They also have a screw that is usually loose. Snug it down. Next just go ahead and snug down every other screw you can find, from the swash to the top of the head. Check under the swash as well. They hold the swash bearing in. Even the ball links check them as well.

    Next I check the fly-bar. I cycle the right stick around and get the servos moving and make sure nothing drags. Once done you can turn off the helo/radio. It's much easier if you have a block to place under the swash plate to keep it flat while you adjust the fly bar. I usually look at it from the side and check that the fly bar paddle is level with the swash plate. If the swash is not level this check can't be done right. You can check by turning the rotor gently and looking at the angle of attack. It needs to be zero all around. Also check the fly bar links and ensure they are level with the centerline of the paddle. I just look down the fly bar trailing edge and line it up with the "molded" centerline in the link. I next grab the paddles, leading edge and trailing edge, with my finger tips and gently try and twist them. They should resist. You can get them to give but we are talking a light twist and they should stay level. If you want your helo to handle better for learning, get a shorter flybar, an extra set of flybar weights and some smooth leading edge paddles that Align carries. Plastic or carbon, doesn't matter as long as the leading edge is more rounded than the Belt's. Align makes from 190MM(recommended) 200MM and a 220MM(Stock Belt CP) flybars. Aligns are slightly thicker steel so you need to drill out the flybar case. A #44 bit works well or any bit in between a 1/16 and 1/8. The extra weights slow doen the cyclic even more to it is less sensitive. Trust me, you want a slow cyclic in the beginning. You can always crank it up when your ready.

    You can set the main blade pitch by eye, but I picked up and inexpensive pitch gauge. -1 degrees at zero throttle and 7-10 Degrees at the top.

    Mechanically your head should be set-up. It will, most likely, need to be trimmed slightly right aileron to compensate for the tail rotor blowing right in a hover.

    With the heading hold gyro, just follow the G90 instructions. I'm not sure if your Esky gyro, extra lead, can remotely control the gain from the 5th channel or just switches it back and forth from rate to heading hold. The Esky HH's I have seen respond well at about 60-80% gain on the adjustment. You really need a good hover to test the gain. The quick way is too get it into a hover, if it wags back and forth, too much gain. If it doesn't, hover and move the rudder/helo 45 degrees. When it stops, it shouldn't wag. If it does back it down some more, a little at a time. A real test is to hover and hit the throttle 30% more than hover and it shouldn't wag under load. Just do the hover check for now.

    Eating the servo: HH gyros "creep" when armed. It can be made to stay centered with sub trim but also be sure the gyro has had time to compensate for the temperature. IE A/C to hot outdoors. The instructions explain all of this. The Belt's rudder, servo arm is too long and needs to be changed with one that is shorter. At full deflection it binds which will eat a servo over time. If you leave the stock arm on when the servo creeps to one side it will bind and eat the servo by overheating the servo motor. I have seen them melt the case. This is why when servicing the head or anything else with the radio on, it is best to disconnect the rudder servo with a HH gyro.



  3. #3

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    RE: ........."BELT-CP THREAD"........

    Thank you for all that info. Its going to help me out when i get mine in a day or two.

  4. #4
    Tusar's Avatar
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    RE: ........."BELT-CP THREAD"........


    ORIGINAL: chris6414

    Tips:

    1. There is no such thing as ready to fly out of the box!

    2. Check every screw and bolt on the machine for tightness when you get it

    3. If you’ve never flown, find someone who has to help. If you can’t find someone, your SOL and don’t you dare fly around people or populated areas!

    4. Make trainer gear, or get a second job to pay for all the parts you will need.

    5. Read the directions that came with your radio so you understand what all the buttons and switches do.

    6. Learn about your batteries and their care. You can easily ruin them if you don’t understand how they function. (charging and discharging).

    7. While setting up the helo, (servos) disconnect the motor. Take it from me, rotors hurt when they hit you. I have the scares to prove it.


    I second that : |
    Its not about the landing, its about how the landing is performed

  5. #5

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    RE: ........."BELT-CP THREAD"........

    I have purchased a Belt CP RTF, so it has all Esky equipment. The ESC came set-up with the brake activated. I don’t know if this is a good idea or not, should I deactivate the brake?

    The ESC has a very hard start-up, and as far as I can see there is no option to soften it. I am thinking that deactivating the ratchet function on the throttle stick may help the start up characteristic?

    Any ideas on this would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

  6. #6

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    RE: ........."BELT-CP THREAD"........

    Hey all.

    I'm glad someone started this thread. We have BeltCP parts in stock and more on the way. Also, Anyone interested in a BeltCP, Airframe Only, Fully Assembled for $89 + shipping?
    Michael Bernstein, President, USHobbySupply
    Please PM me if I miss your question in a thread

  7. #7

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    RE: ........."BELT-CP THREAD"........

    A lot of good info for us all but a nother thing is the servo from esky are junk and so is the tx it is so bad that i think you would have more control with wires hock to the heli so for the first time flyer it would be good to get a good radio and some good servo for the belt cp it will give you a lot more control and a lot less crashing. I am a newbie in the heli sport but in the RTF model the tx is bad [:'(] how can they send somthing like that and exspected you to learn.

  8. #8

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    RE: ........."BELT-CP THREAD"........

    The BeltCP is a good bird, but justlift has a point. The stock TX/RX leave somethings to be desired. But at that price point, what can you expect?

    Thats why i only (mostly) sell just the complete, already assembled airframe. I have sold and will sell (upon request) full RTF birds, but for the most part I find people that have their own radio gear but want a BeltCP.
    Michael Bernstein, President, USHobbySupply
    Please PM me if I miss your question in a thread

  9. #9
    chris6414's Avatar
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    RE: ........."BELT-CP THREAD"........

    ORIGINAL: justlift

    A lot of good info for us all but a nother thing is the servo from esky are junk and so is the tx it is so bad that i think you would have more control with wires hock to the heli so for the first time flyer it would be good to get a good radio and some good servo for the belt cp it will give you a lot more control and a lot less crashing. I am a newbie in the heli sport but in the RTF model the tx is bad [:'(] how can they send somthing like that and exspected you to learn.
    I wouldn't say they are Junk. They have been working fine for me since April with no issues. Can they survive a crash? No, they are delicate but do FLY well and they are quick enough for basic sport flying with mild aerobatics. Servos are designed to move control surfaces and linkages not survive a crash. The whole goal is not to crash and if you crash regularly, you NEED to practice with trainer gear or get more time on a sim. I fly with a basic Blade CPP radio so the radio will not make your helo fly better. If it is not handling right then it needs to be adjusted correctly. I have worked with CP helos for a bit and especially Belts. When something is wrong with the helo it is usually a mechanical set up issue. Sometimes, Receiver issues if they are set up wrong with antennas not clear of the ESC etc.. Bone stock with the rate gyro fly just fine. If you can't fly it that way, don't blame the Helo. Just go back to the setup and practice, practice, practice.

    Program ESky ESC:My interpretation of the ESC manual:

    1. 25A continuous current
    2. 50A peak current
    3. Low Voltage Cutoff - 9.2VDC - Power cut to 20 percent of signal so it should be noticable.
    4. Programmable

    No brake = beep beep beep when power is first applied.

    Brake = beepbeep beepbeep beepbeep when power is first applied.

    5. Programming sequence
    Turn power off
    Throttle to full power
    Trun power on
    Throttle to zero power before audible beeps expire
    Turn power off
    Turn power on and setting (audible beeps) should match new desired setting


  10. #10

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    RE: ........."BELT-CP THREAD"........


    - change the gyro to the head lock gyro. It will fly better

  11. #11
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    RE: ........."BELT-CP THREAD"........

    I have yet to experience any problems with the electronics that came with the belt cp, but I have yet to really crash it (only scraped the blades) I also use the gyro that came with it and once setup properly theres really not any issues with it, especially with a 29.99 dollar price tag I LIKE IT!!

    I use a Futaba 9chps radio and Align 6x receiver with no glitches thus far

    This is really the first 450 I've flown since I learned to hover and training gear wasn't really required

    Here's the setup I'm running

    E-sky belt cp plastic edition
    E-sky 3800kv motor
    E-sky 25a brushless esc with brake disabled
    E-sky non heading hold gyro with hitec HS-56 carbonite
    E-sky 8g servo's on cyclic
    Mega power 11.1v 20c 2100mah and Xtreme power 11.1v 20c 1700mah
    Futaba 9chps with align 6x

    Mods made before maiden :
    Esky aluminum swashplate
    re-threadlocked all head screws
    lubed and softened the belt because it was FREAKIN STIFF!
    dremeled and fixed an E clip to the the brushless motor, (that thing slides off wayyy to easky, lol I mean easy)

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    Heli\'\'s........ It is your destiny..... and perhaps your demise.

  12. #12

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    RE: ........."BELT-CP THREAD"........

    chris, those are definitely good tips. i was looking everywhere for the esc instructions manual but could not find them anywher, thanks.

    for some reason i haven't had much luck with the esky esc it's been somewhat acting up.

    anyway here are some pics of my heli with some rex parts. but to use some of these parts you need to modify a little bit (dremel time). the horizontal fin needs to be cut a little at the screw holes but the vertical fits perfect, tail fins are tight so you are going to have to sand them a little, the main rotor blades needs washers, paddles can screw directly onto the flybar but needs threadlock, landing gear also has to be adjusted to fit. i also found the hs65 servos are not easily placed you are going to have to do some frame trimming to some of them. right now i am not using the heli waiting for some parts. so far i got ; cf boom, telebee hh gyro, mp 2200, rex canopy, fs8 co-pilot and copter x esc & bl. im still using stock tx but soon will be up grading the tx and swash.
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  13. #13
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    RE: ........."BELT-CP THREAD"........

    Nice clean looking build, I like the canopy it really takes away from the ugly bulkyness from the stock version out of the box.

    As for your new gyro, have you used the telebee before? I've always known to have it standing upright with the label facing the tail like so (see pic) If it works the way you have it that would be very interesting.
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    Heli\'\'s........ It is your destiny..... and perhaps your demise.

  14. #14

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    RE: ........."BELT-CP THREAD"........

    no, i havent used the gyro yet. yeah i do see everybody place them up-right but, i did'nt see anything on the manual saying the gyro needs to be up-right ( i guess soon i'll find out) hopefully it'll work. i just finished putting in the copter x bl & esc which looks much better then stock and fits good. all i need to fly again is the dual con-crystal and i'll be up&away.

  15. #15

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    RE: ........."BELT-CP THREAD"........

    Hello,
    I would like to know what parts # that would fit from the rex? I would like to know cause my LHS has parts for the rex.
    I know there another thread somewhere

  16. #16

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    RE: ........."BELT-CP THREAD"........

    Actually, i put mine upright because of the picture on the first page of the manual. It clearly shows the tape being applied to the side that is right under the gain dial and led.

  17. #17
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    RE: ........."BELT-CP THREAD"........

    I put my EFlite G90(same one) upright as well. I have a digital version of the directions if you need them. As for Rex parts, many fit but every one that I used had to be modded slightly.

    Currently using:
    TRex SA tail blades(root tip sanded to fit)
    Trex 200MM flybar with align carbon paddles(drill out flybar case a tad)
    Canopy
    3550 motor(if you want the heat sink, you need to dremel to fit)
    Head dampners (stiffer for the feathering shaft)

    Have tried Main blades but they need 2 1mm spacers to fit grips


  18. #18

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    RE: ........."BELT-CP THREAD"........


    ORIGINAL: 3kgt

    no, i havent used the gyro yet. yeah i do see everybody place them up-right but, i did'nt see anything on the manual saying the gyro needs to be up-right ( i guess soon i'll find out) hopefully it'll work. i just finished putting in the copter x bl & esc which looks much better then stock and fits good. all i need to fly again is the dual con-crystal and i'll be up&away.
    You can check the whether the gyro is in the right orientation by powering up (with motor power detached). Just plug in the battery and move the tail side to side, you should see the gyro try to compensate by moving the tail servo. If the gyro doesn't respond when you move the tail side to side then try tilting the heli left and right, if that works then you have the gryo installed wrong. Basically you need to find out which axis the gyro responds to.

    If you remember geometry and looking at the heli from the front the z axis is up and down (through the main shaft), the y axis goes left to right and the x axis is parallel with the tail. Gyros are meant to counter rotation around the z axis along the x-y plane, if your gyro is installed wrong then it is countering rotation around the x axis along the z-y plane. Hope that's not too confusing.

  19. #19
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    RE: ........."BELT-CP THREAD"........

    Hi Allan, to answer your question about the REX parts on the belt cp here's a link to where we are talking about that very same discussion http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_63...tm.htm#6401062

    Here's a list of all the things I've tested on belt cp with success

    HDX 315mm FRP Carbon Fiber Main Blade
    1.5mm G10 Black Fiber Vertical/Horizontal Fins (horizontal fines need new hole drilled)
    T-REX 315mm Wooden Main Blade (shaved down blade grip area)
    T-REX All Metal Rotor Head Set V2 (fits but the mixing seems strange, haven't tested in flight)
    T-REX XL Canopy and fibre glass canopy (these make it look way better)
    Align tail rotor blades HS1208 (tail very whippy, almost too responsive)
    Align 9g servo's (fit and have more torque but I'm happy with my esky's)
    T-REX bump resistant landing skids (needs new holes drilled)

    cheers
    Heli\'\'s........ It is your destiny..... and perhaps your demise.

  20. #20
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    RE: ........."BELT-CP THREAD"........

    Hey guys check this out, I was just talking about the comparisons of eflite to esky helicopters in another heli forum and sure enough today pop's up a belt cp imitation from eflite!![X(]

    Although there are subtle differences the frame looks awefully familiar and the head is more derived from t-rex than belt cp. even the servo placement is the same location, the motor mount slides back and forth as opposed to the motor, motor is 3800kv outrunner and coincidence the boom is slightly longer than your average heli?! Whether or not it's a redesigned clone it seems to worth a look. Comes with a spektrum DX6i radio and brushless combo, as well as eflite clone gyro of telebee.

    Perhaps some of these parts will be compatible with belt cp in the long run. I'm not a fan of eflite but it's still interesting to see something like this

    If that canopy fit the belt cp and was repainted it would look SWEEEET!
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    Heli\'\'s........ It is your destiny..... and perhaps your demise.

  21. #21

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    RE: ........."BELT-CP THREAD"........

    thats the new blade 400 i think it comes out next month..it does look like the belt cp and hopefully it'll be compatible with the belt since e-flite makes a ton of up grades for their heli's. it is a nice looking canopy..me like.

    druss, thanks for the info i just went through the bob white set-up to get it working and the gyro is best upright.

  22. #22

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    RE: ........."BELT-CP THREAD"........

    how often does anyone lube the spindle shaft (or that shat th blades attach to) I have over 7 flights on it a getting ready to go threw it making sure every things tight.

  23. #23

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    RE: ........."BELT-CP THREAD"........

    Have not lubed mine yet, only 3 flights. of course i had to replace the spindle shaft (yup thats the name, or feathering shaft) after test flight #1. But now with new gyro (lgt 2100t) the tail is not wagging all over the place (without input from pilot).

    Not sure that the beltcp spindle has any metal to metal contact. Have to look up the exploded parts diagram. I might think that some dry graphite lube would be well placed there.
    Michael Bernstein, President, USHobbySupply
    Please PM me if I miss your question in a thread

  24. #24

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
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    RE: ........."BELT-CP THREAD"........

    Hi am a newbi to helis got a fair bit of practice in on the xtr sim and have a fixed pitch that i can hover fairly ,well want to step up to collective pitch as a few of me mates started there and all seem to say its the way to go, been reading loads of threads on the hb king 2, and as much as i can find on the belt cp, are there any of you on this thread that also have a king to compair it with, what im asking is apart from the size differences and a few others are the flying charactistics of both helis fairly simlar, i am drifting towards the belt cp myself as certain build differences look better on it than the king ,and over here in the uk there seems to be a big t-rex following so parts will probably be easier to obtain aswell . another quick question does anyone have a link to the bob white site as ive seen a couple of set up vids and want to find out as much as poss on the setup side of things as i can ,thanks guys

  25. #25

    Join Date
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    RE: ........."BELT-CP THREAD"........

    DAMN IM MAD, THIS HELI IS JUST TAKING ME TO THE POINT OF THROWING IT OFF A BRIDGE!!! I JUST TURNNED IT ON TO FLY (NEW ESC & MOTOR), STARTED PICKING UP HEAD SPEED AND WHAT HAPPENS, I START SELLING SOMETHING BURNING. WHAT IS IT, THE NEW ESC AND MOTOR NOW IM THINKING OF SMASHING THE DAMN HELI. I NEED SOME HELP WITH THIS. IM NEW TO THE " WORLD OF HELIS" BUT I'VE BEEN RUNNING RC CARS FOR MANY YEARS AND NEVER HAD PROBLEMS LIKE THIS BEFORE. THIS IS THE SECOND (COPTER X)ESC NOW CAUSE THE FIRST ONE (E-SKY) ALSO CRAPPED OUT. MAYBE IT CAN BE THE RX CAUSING THIS? DONT KNOW...HELP...[:@]
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