pgroom_68

Hey Hottrk,
NOT FOR NEWBIES sorry!
It all depends what you are doing with your heli. Brendon wants to fly in wind (which we both know is tricky to say the least) - so needs more weight & in a bit on flybar for more and faster cyclic response. For this senario (he already has installed stronger motors, STIFF BLADES, 20mm [1.5 inch] extension on shaft A, and extended servo arms [its an "all or nothing deal"]), as far as I can tell, it is the positions of the weights (max two on each side of hub) that make the main difference. If you re-read my last post just above I quote Barak1001 (from another forum - which will remain nameless - in case I get in trouble) who says he tried lots of options and came across a distance and weight that means no more "death rolls" when trying to fly, swoop, bank turn etc in FF. "In wind" would have the same parameters except the sudden "gusts" which noone can do ANYTHING about! That's what we were discussing while awaiting his batteries from HongKong.

IMO, IT DOESN't MATTER AS MUCH HOW LONG YOUR FLYBAR IS - IT JUST MATTERS WHERE YOU SECURE YOUR WEIGHTS (and how much). So get a full length one, get some wheel collars, and start moving the weights inwards (evenly) for less stability (no more stable hovers - yay!) and a faster transition to FF.[>:] (Just make sure that before you begin doing this you have already modded ALL the things listed above) Don't do any trimming of the actual flybar and you can move them back (take off wheel collars also) if you are not happy with the changes it creates

Peter
P.S. Watch the videos in post #1016 that Brendon posted

pgroom_68

Hey again Hottrk,

I didn't mean to be rude - and it seemed like I was by typing "not for newbies". (when I read it back) I typed that to warn other newbies - it wasn't directed at you! Sorry if it created any tension. You could go into business selling those on/off switches - and I would be the first in line! (I'm not very good with the soldering iron I'm afraid)

Peter

1500valk

My Feedback: (4)

Hey, Peter. I have a question, also, about a cf flybar.
Seems mine cracked due to too much pressure from the set screw on the weights (wheel collars), so I lost about an inch (so trimmed the other side to match).
Here is a pic of my weights and where they are right now:
Also, i must have some crappy CF since it cracks at the slightest pressure from the set screws.....
the caliper reads a tad over 70mm. Is this too short? I can't test it until I get new blades. I have been dying my white xtreme blades to black, but I think it weakens them. I have broken quite a few sets.....

stalyoni

Sorry Peter I have been busy with family matters,

I just looked threw my parts and I have one spare collar. Just checked again and the goldslinger is still not in stock. I'm hoping my batteries come tomorrow but if not it will be on Tuesday (given its a public holiday Monday). It sounds like theres more to this flightbar then i first thought. What if i just use the stock goldslinger. Where can i order more collars? Sorry Im tired and its so hot and my brains not working


Brendon

pgroom_68

Hey 1500valk,
How have you been? Nice to hear from you again. Yeah, I got a dud batch a while back also. I used one of the CF bars that I got as part of my Training Kit for one of my DF#4s and cut it to be 170mm. The quality of an earlier try at the same thing was successful - 'till I sold the Lama that had it attached - but this particular one cracked without much pressure from the grub screws (what we call then in Oz - something about looking like a grub I guess[sm=shades_smile.gif]).
If you read five posts back I was just quoting from another forum (posted onto this one by Brendon) and an experienced flier, Barak1001 said "...There's a limit to how far in [closer to the hub] you can run the weights and maintain stability while performing rapid maneuvers. I found that with a Carbon Fiber flybar having the weights closer in than 4 3/8 inch [115mm] caused the chopper to death roll constantly, this was with a full length carbon fiber flybar. [Goldslinger is 195mm long] I also found that the chopper was far more likely to death roll with just a set of bullet weights and that adding a second set of dubro weights centered between the bullet weights and pivot completely eliminated the death rolls." By my calculations if you double the 70.6mm shown you get a flybar with a total length of 141.2mm and there is some inside the hub also - PLENTY TO PLAY WITH Just don't trim any more (even by accident) or you might be getting close to the limits needed to attach the weights. By the way, I see you have multiple weights on each side of the hub - I was told two was the limit that you need on each side[sm=confused.gif] - how do you find it with more?
One more thing. Im not a blade or CF or flybar expert - just like to try new things[sm=wink_smile.gif]. When you dye blades don't you put them in boiling water? This would take a lot of the bonding out of the plastic - my father is a forensic scientist - so I grew up with a really extensive chemistry set. A long chain polymer such as hardened plastic would loose about half its properties when heated to 100ºC (boiling water temp) This might also make them lose some of their pitch due to the maliable (bendable) nature of partly melted plastic - not good! That is why I never dyed my blades with food grade dyes in hot water. I just prefer to buy the colours that are available in the Xtreme Hardened range - white, blue, yellow (do you know of any others yet?)

Peter

pgroom_68

Hey Brendon,
Just relax. Between us we have enough. I was under the impression that one on each side of hub (total two) attached BEFORE the bullet-shaped weights that comes in the Goldslinger bag - is the most that we will need. But 1500valk just posted a pic of his and he has multiple weights on each side - I'm so confused[sm=confused.gif]

Peter

pgroom_68

Hey Brendon,

I hope your batteries arrive tomorrow also - waiting is a killer![sm=48_48.gif] What was the date that the email said "Posted"?
I might try "destroying" a set of blades by cutting off the root (part which attaches into holder) - and redrilling a hole. I just have to be in the correct mood for cutting into a "perfectly good" set of Xtreme blades...... This would give a more rigid blade within holder for "breeze" flying outdoors. Just have to figure out what to do to create a safeguard so they still fold in a crash - partly to save them - partly to save my wallet..............
Don't worry. If I do, I will keep you "posted".

Peter

1500valk

My Feedback: (4)

With 3 weights on each side, I find it very stable.
But, I have never flown it outside, yet.
I am going to remove my cf rods and make new ones. But, I still wish I could get better carbon fiber that doesn't splinter at the slightest dirty look!
Yeah, I am gonna stop dyeing my blades, I definitely think it's making them weaker.

stalyoni

yes thanks Peter,

Problem is though that i work tomorrow and the packaging will be to big to fit in my letter box so i will have to goto the post office to pick it up and I will be at work till 5:30pm and guess what time the post office shuts.

OH WELL it wasnt meant to be, she can stay in the hanger. Ill sort her out next week.

Do you think Micheal can throw in some collars with the goldslinger for me?

Brendon

1500valk

My Feedback: (4)

Also, I am lost. is that 115 mm each side? Because that seems pretty long.....

pgroom_68

Brendon,

I doubt you'll need more as I have 4 so far...............

Peter

pgroom_68

1500valk,
Nah. I'm sure that is weight to weight measurement.

Peter


ANYWAY -I'M TIRED AND GOING TO BED NOW.
(I will have some pics - sorry no videos camera - for you 2morrow I hope)

1500valk

My Feedback: (4)

Ok, I see.
Also, the reason I run 3 is that is what the original pic of the goldslinger showed.
But, I might try two with a longer flybar.
Currently, the handling is a bit twitchy, which is how I broke my last blade.

pgroom_68

Before I go to bed, I will throw another quote in to get you thinking (and drooling[sm=tongue_smile.gif]) It is from Shadow99 on the Big Lama thread of this forum. He wrote "On a Counter-Rotator a "Crack-Roll" is being able to roll the heli 90' then snap it back to vertical without CRASHING!
Blade clearance between the upper and lower rotors is one factor, the other is the weight of the flybar.

More weight=more stability (less reactive to cyclic input), less weight=less stability (faster reaction to cyclic input).

The centrifical force on the flybar with the attached weights, slow the upper head drastically when you push the BIG LAMA into a hard banked turn, once the upper rotor looses headspeed, it yaws (from uneven torque), stalls and plummets to good 'ol Mother Earth.[:'(] Notice the lower rotor has no flybar or additional weights, ever notice when you throttle-down the lower rotor stops 1st & the upper keeps going due to the CF [Centrifugal Force]?"

So i guess that partly answers your question re. weight vs stability then......

Peter

Wheelnut

My Feedback: (81)

Thanks, that answered my old question; why was there a lower fly bar on that coaxial heli I saw somewhere? That must be the reason.

hottrk51

Thanks P,
I'm still looking to get a stable hover! I fly indoors for now. A foot of snow doesn't mix well with electronics.
I'd like to get this thing to hover as well as my MCX.

pgroom_68

Hey Stalyoni,
I've got some pics for ya as promised. What do they say about telling 1000 words?
I hope you have successfully got into "long weekend" mode [it's Australia Day weekend - Australia Day is Monday] and are just kicking back with a beer.
The first pic shows the full-length Goldslinger. Note the weights are unattached & have small grub screws to attach anywhere along the CF flybar. (Also in that photo is some blue Xtreme blades that I got in the post the same day!). Next I have a pic showing a Goldslinger on an extended shaft. Please note the positions of 2 x collar weights (before adjusting anything - halfway between bullet weight and hub - VERY important to be accurate!). As you move the bullet weights inwards, you also move the collars (but if you think about it, the collars will not move as far each time you move the bullet weights).[sm=72_72.gif]. We will be doing all these adjustments to your highly modded Lama just as soon as you get those d*** batteries in the post (probably Tuesday or Wednesday next week).
I added a pic of Big Lama BLADES on a V4 - just because I can - as expected it roared to the ceiling of rec room and only needed 1/4 throttle to do so, but at the expense of flight time (4 minutes). The blade strike was also to common for my liking! But it was there to do and looked great!

Peter

pgroom_68

I have a question now. What is wrong with cutting the weights off the standard flybar (made of metal) and using it to attach collars?

hottrk51,

If you buy a new UNBENT flybar it is a lot easier to adjust everything else to get a stable hover The link that goes from flybar to bladeholders is VERY important. Rotate CW or CCW (counting as you go) until you get one 'blade plane', move your trims and away you go - stable hover!
If you still can't get a stable hover, post a video on Youtube (tell us when you have done this of course) & we will tell you what you are needing to do.

Peter

Wheelnut

My Feedback: (81)

I think someone should make a flybar out of graphite so it won't bend. Why isn't this being done yet?

stalyoni

Theres one problem in that equation Peter and that is that i don't actually have a goldsliger yet. Unless the one shown in the picture was a spare that i can buy off you (and the collars). I haven't as yet had a beer yet (as i had the mrs around last night), but i have been watching the tennis is that aussie enough for you. I have been so tired from work and this heat and ive had family staying here. This week i only have work on Thursday and Friday, YAY (but not yay for my wallet). So ill be at the beach surfing or swimming most days. Im up now cause i cant sleep due to the heat. Anyways UShobby still shows the goldslinger out of stock , so unless that one in the pic is a spare then she will have to sit in the hanger.

ps. ill check the letterbox and see at least if the batteries or notice to pick them up is there in the morning.

Brendon

stalyoni

I just bid on a honeybee king2 on ebay, lols. If i get it for the right price then it will be ok, lets just wait and see. I also saw the BIG LAMA on there with stock from melbourne for $270. How much did you pay for yours peter and have you put the extreme motors in yet? (if so how does she go)

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/2009-Esky-Biggest-Big-Outdoor-Lama-4CH-Helicopter_W0QQitemZ270333347467QQcmdZViewItemQQpt ZAU_Toys_Hobbies_Radio_Controlled_Vehicles?hash=it em270333347467&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A1|39%3A1|240%3A1318


Brendon

pgroom_68

Hey Brendon,
Are you nuts? You can't go from a stable counter-rotating thing to an unstable flying thingie with no damage! You should have bid on the Big Lama instead...I PAID: RCHelicopterShop.com US$119.00 + US$41.26 registered air parcel (2.7Kg) = US$160.26 [in my hands in 6 business days]. At todays rate of exchange US$160.26 = AUD$246.61! BIT MORE - BUT WELL WORTH IT!!
No, I haven't had the time to put Xtreme motors in yet - and the standard motors show no signs of ending their reign either
The HBK2 has its own thread in this forum - so I'm sure if you DO win you will get the support that you need.

I will LEND you a Goldslinger until you can order one & it arrives - then simply give me the new one!
Anyway, must go now

Peter

UPDATE: The one selling on Ebay Australia costs AUD$239 + $28 p/h + $13 for 36mHz crystals = AUD$280

DEinspanjer

Hi folks, I've been spending some time searching the web looking for a way out of my problem with my new lama4 and I came across this site.
You seem like a nice enough group for the most part even though you are talking so far above my head I fear for ever being able to understand you.

My wife bought me a lama4 RTF from handhelditems.com. I got to fly it once and guess what happened...


Nope! I didn't crash it, I actually managed to circle the room a few times and had a lot of fun taking off and landing. I did chip one of the blades a little when I did a bit of a bounce off of the floor and scraped the wall.. but I'm getting off track...

When the battery was dead, I took it out to charge it and the charger wouldn't light up properly again. I futzed with it for a while and finally got to the point that I unscrewed the charger to look inside. One of the printed circuits on the circuit board was burned clear through.

So I got an RMA from the site it was purchased (Ugh, extremely difficult to get through to them, their phone system was just hanging up on me 90% of the time. :/) and I sent off the charger for replacement but it has been weeks now and I haven't heard anything else from them. Their phone system is now hanging up 100% of the time and I haven't gotten any reply from my e-mails. So I figured there has got to be a better company to try to get a new charger. It is so sad seeing this beautiful toy sitting here and not being able to play with it. :/

Anyone have recommendations on where I should go to try to pick up a replacement charger? Do you think I should order some replacement parts at the same time to save on shipping? I was figuring I'd eventually go through the blades, but I don't know what else would be useful to have on hand.

I'm not looking to do any sort of modding that would require technical adjustments to the heli yet. I'd rather get a good feel for it as is first.

hottrk51

I had one do the same. Just solder a jumper wire across the burnt circuit foil. (BTW this is an acceptable fix per IPC 610, the circuit board industry spec authority).
Your LHS should have a replacement for about $12.00. Otherwise check the postings for sources or try Hobby Lobby. I think they stock it and the are a Lama dealer.

1500valk

My Feedback: (4)

boomtown hobbies:
http://www.boomtownhobbies.com/E_SKY...p/ek2-0851.htm

I have had no issues with this company, very quick shipping, reasonable prices.

us hobby supply, I have heard nothing but good things about them:
https://www.ushobbysupply.com/produc...fad471f41b6537

eventually, you will want new blades. I can recommend the xtreme blades. The factory blades do chip pretty easy.