dicharry

My Feedback: (16)

I need some ideas on how to remove a rounded out set screw from the see-saw hub of an Align
(knockoff ) head assembly. I've also had this problem on the paddle set screws of a new Blackhawk
450. It seems the grub screws were tightened until the inside points of the allen set screws started
stripping or rounding off. This was not a self inflicted problem although I can see how being a little over zealous in tightening can cause the problem especially with a 1.5mm grub screw.
I've done my share of OA welding and cutting, and I can tell you that the application of heat does wonders in freeing stuck bolts, etc. I'm hesitant to apply heat to this see-saw hub since I don't know anything about the aluminum alloy the set screw is threaded into. I guess I could try heating it up around the set screw with a soldering iron ? Anyway, I'm looking for answers. I haven't seen any 1.5mm set screw removal bits advertized anywhere. Do you drill it out and rethread? I was looking for the simplest solution.
Thanks,
Don

Brazing should not damage the
Submitted by martakz on April 8, 2004 - 9:40pm.
Brazing should not damage the aluminium...its only around 1000C. The allen keys support themselves in the bolt. So all I would have to do is heat the area and feed the golden solder in...

Either that or laser it out! Well maybe not, but I did find some screw extractors...

brac1960

You could maybe try jb weld to hold the allen key in ??

jmann71

Craftsman makes some small EZ outs, but not 100% sure they go that small.

DumbDawg

My Feedback: (3)

I have seen some very small extractors and I'll try and remember where I've seen them. But I've drilled mine out . Dirll bit is smaller than the threads so that after I drilled it left a small collar all the way down the hole. I don't eve touch the threads. Then I take a small screw driver or dental pick and start peeling the metal grub screw out... Almost peels like an orange when you get it started. Often the grub can be backed out after this as well, not always but sometimes you get lucky.

Thats the way I usually get stuck doing it. The jb weld works great too IF there is enough edges for it to hold onto, but if its round... the JB doesn't always work it just turns and then makes it harder to drill.

Happy day

Empty Wallet

Maybe use a small end mill bit to grind accross the head so you can get a flat head screw driver in it?
I would add some heat to it too. Likely to only get one shot at it.
I dont think the heat could be any worse than the damage you are likely to do trying to drill it out.
I can remember trying to drill out a hardend valve cover bolt from an aluminum head.
Not very pretty.
The drill tip kept skating off the end of the bolt and chewed up the aluminum pretty bad.

dicharry

My Feedback: (16)

DumbDawg, drilling it out sounds like the most workable solution if I can't find an easy out for a 1.5mm grub. You don't happen to recall the size drill bit you used ? I would pick up a few since I would guess they are shot after one use. I've done lots of brazing, and brazing such a tight area without brazing the screw to the aluminum would be almost impossible. That's one of the advantages of brazing; it will join dissimilar metals.
I'm just about to the point of trying heat from a small butane torch. I don't know the coeffiecient of expansion of the two metals and heat might result in the steel expanding tighter into the aluminum.
Last resort? Bring it to a machinest and hope he dosen't laugh you out of the place or charge you twice the price of a new see-saw hub.
Thanks for all of the suggestions-
Don

Empty Wallet

Let us know how it goes.
And where you find the drill bit and extractor

Druss

I typically use a bit of red loctite, let it set for 5 minutes then just unscrew normally.

blk822

Some times I find a Torx bit that is just alittle big and hammer it in the hole then turn it out. The torx bits have points that bite in. I have been a mechanic and automotive tech for along time and have used this solution many times. Now I am a Fireman Mechanic we build and repair fire trucks and brush trucks so knowing how to remove bolts is a must. Also you can use a cut off disc in a dremel and cut a slot across the screw and then use a flat screw driver to turn it out. Thats a good reason to go out and buy your self a nice dremel kit also.

DumbDawg

My Feedback: (3)

Heres a place in NJ that has #1 extractors which should do the trick if you still want to go this route. These guys have some great tools and cheap too. I've bought a few things from them.

http://www.victornet.com/cgi-bin/vic...5%2C925%2C1489

And, the drill bit I used is a 3/64" or 1.19mm bit. You will need a dremel as these bits are so small they probably won't go into a drill. Besides you need a lot of control that a regular drill won't give you. Because you need to get this bit right down the center or as close to it as possible. GO SLOW when starting it. Or, you will end up chewing the aluminum up and not touching the bolt. Its a socket head so you have a pilot hole already right?? It should work out fine.

happy fly'n

Empty Wallet

The dremel trick works every time.
But you cant get a cut off wheel into the blade grip to cut the slot into the bolt without cutting into the blade grip as well.
You could get a tiny end mill in there, but I have never tried it before.
If you could cut the slot with one, you will get the bolt out

dicharry

My Feedback: (16)

Got a couple of old paddle grips that I'm practicing on. Using Bondo to anchor the allen wrench in didn't work and when I cut it with the Dremel disc (it did cut into the grip itself pretty good) it left unsupported pieces of screw on each side. One half of the screw broke off when I applied pressure with the small screwdriver.
Back to the drawing board.............
Don

DumbDawg

My Feedback: (3)

I personally wouldn't try slotting the screw as the slot not only does cuting in the slot damage surrounding material but its a terrible method for turning anything. Torq, roberts or even a phillips is hugely better than a slot. With a grub screw you already have a pilot hole to drill with. Try on the old paddles drilling one out. You'll probably find its not that difficult. As for bondo.. yah wayyy to soft. You need a two part epoxy putty like jb weld or a real hard epoxy. But these are likely to fail as well because if the grub is rounded on the inside then they will probably break loose and turn too.

Your best bet is unfortunately drilling. Then peeling the leftover material out with a pick or getting an extractor. You can always make our own extractor as well. Take a small brad nail that will go into the hole, tapped into. Take a dremel and cut two slots into it, one on either side. Now cut away some material from the nail on one side of the slot then do the same on the other side of the nail. ou want to end up with an extractor which should work provided the nail material isn't to soft. If it is you could use a screw and do the same thing.

Did you check out the website I posted??

happy tinkering

Empty Wallet

I did.
Good site.
Put it in my favorites.
Thanks

dicharry

My Feedback: (16)

Success! Found one of my old small screw extractors from my model airplane building days. I chucked it up in my drill, put it in reverse and went very slowly in reverse and voila, it worked. I had the paddle holder locked into my vice, so it might be a problem transferring the technique to an aluminum see-saw hub, but that's something I'll figure out. I had to use alot of downward pressure on the drill/extractor to get it to bite.
You might wonder why I didn't try this sooner, but after 20 years of model building you accumulate alot of tools,small parts, etc, and finding the screw extractor in a drawer full of various items (many which I forgot I had) can be a hat trick.
Thanks guys for all the great info,
Don

DumbDawg

My Feedback: (3)

SWEET>>> Glad you got a tool that will work... And I can relate to the drawer of tools thing. Oh look.. I didn't know I had one of these... Oh look I guess I have two of these... lol

Be careful squeezing that aluminum as it won't take much to bent it. I'd take a 1x4 or something similar, cut a small square the size of the seesaw. Drop it in there to keep it from spinning and then ezee out the grub... I'd be interested in how you do it tho...

happy drill'n