aircrash

Hi again Geoff,

You tell me about it! I can fly great in Phoenix simulator any 450 or 500 CP, even do aerobatics!
But I keep crashing my 450 in real life. I have not yet flown for more than a 5sec flight... and boom, I get tail boom strikes cause I close the throttle rapidly.

No lifting power:
Check flybar linkage rod adjustment. Adjust it till you get perfect blade tracking. Else the blades have a tracking problem and this also means that the pitch is not right, aka no lifting power at all from the upper rotor.
Check blades. Sometimes they flare and they can not give any output. Use new.
Check lower rotor blade tracking. It should be perfect or almost. Else something it is bent (even the blade grips) or wobbles baddly.
Check weight. Up to 460g is OK for a brushed BOL. It can lift more weight but...
Check li-po, even if it shows good voltage rating. Try another.
Check pinion to gear clearance and if something binds. As bearings, a washer that goes between the gear and the bearing, etc. Both rotors should spin freely.

ILOVEmy Big Lamas !
Now I must have more than twenty of them !

Spiros

Edmund2

Spiros, exactly why I say you have more stock than the LHS' around my area.

Hi Simon, see you are logged in as well. Nice thunder storm outside at the moment so a hot day again tomorrow and I will be ready for some stick time.

Edmund

aircrash

Hi Edmund,

At least I can fly them !
My kid loves to watch! He sees me building the 450 and grabs a screwdriver and starts messing around. I let him mess a little. I see him flying by the time he gets 3y...

I was afraid that I might not find parts in a couple of years and so I got lots of them. More than 26 gear and shaft sets... 12 frames... and you can imagine... I also have more than 6 receivers... as I have so many Tx to use.
As for blades I don`t know how much. They are hundrends...

Yes, too much money on Big Lama, but I enjoy not only flying them but even have them in the living room.
I did not bought new tyres for my bike but I did got lots of RTF BOL ... (lol, I must be a maniac)

If only they do not wear out by the time.

You get some BOL flying too Edmund.

@Geoff, I forgot. you can find 3in1 in ebay. I got some from global.mart and they work fine.
One came with the gyro`s cover open (its cover, of the SMD) but global.mart is very proffessional. He sent me a replacement right away. On the contrary to my bad experience to the Hobbyking... which must have the poorest customer service ever.
Then I tried to glue it back with some CA and it also works!

rhodesengr

aircrash: thanks for the reply. I am really new to the heli stuff. I know where the swashplate is locted but how do I check it. What am I looking for? Loose scews? What might be the adjustment or fix to the swashplate.

kiwigeoff

Spiros
Thanks for the later link to GlobalMart , as they did have the 3&1 and its now on the way. I had tried all the above ideas , including new blades before I posted. So I guess we have both been down this route before. I know its not the batteries as the Brushless was happy on those. I'll let you know how I get on. I only have 2 BOL to fly not like you fleet!

Geoff

kiwigeoff

Andy,

The swashplate is the plates with two linkages from the bottom and two that atttach to the lower blades. This should be nice and level and all the linkages tight( no slop) when stationary. Should be no slop anywhere on this. If it is a new machine then the the plate should be sound at this stage. Check that the screws on the bottom blade are just tight too, not too loose, check the ones clamping the blade holder too.

geoff

aircrash

Hi again Geoff,

You`re welcome.
Check also the rotor rotation direction.
Upper rotor should spin counter clockwise and lower rotor clockwise.
Check if a grub screw does not grab the shaft and it is loose and looses power. The outer shaft has two small screws to the gear and a flat spot. If there are no screws then the flat spot may have been rounded.
Another rare problem is the pinion slips inside the motor`s shaft. But Ihave not any stock motor with this problem.
Check the motor`s plugs. They may be inserted but not fully. I had such a failure on one.

And check about the motor`s capacitors. Sometimes they make a contact with the motor`s body.

I hope you get it soon in the air.
Very nice helicopter.

Spiros

rhodesengr

Thanks guys. I fiund the siurce of the rattle. It was pretty simple. The vertical linkages were hitting the fuselage on one side. I simply trimmed the plastic with scissors. All fixed.

kiwigeoff

Hi Spiros,

Geemeenuu

Hello all,

I am an RC heli noob. After catching the heli bug with a few 3 channel indoor ones, I stepped up and bought a BOL. I've been reading posts on this thread for a couple of weeks now, and have learned quite a bit from you folks about my new obsession. However, i am currently having an issue with my BOL.  If this issue has already been discussed here, i apologize, but man this thread is huge!

A couple of weeks ago i had a crash that left 3 broken blades and a bent balance bar. I straightened out the balance bar (not completely, it still has a slight bend to it that is only noticeable when rolled on a granite block), and ordered some new blades... and batteries... and metal upgrades & shaft extension... and heat sinks (addicted, i know). So, i get my new gear in a couple of days ago, put it all on, go for a test flight and the BOL only gets about 2 or 3 feet of the ground at full throttle.  I try two other batteries with the same result.  I return the BOL to stock conditions and try another flight... same result. It gets at most 3 ft (1m for the rest of the world) off the ground, hovers a bit, and then drops down to just a few cm above the ground.

Additional Info:

One battery was stored fully charged for about a week and half. (wont happen again)

One of the new batteries actually got the BOL to gain altitude briefly this evening, but it was short lived.

As i was discharging the batteries this evening, i noticed that the rx LED would turn solid red at about 90% throttle. Dont know what that means.

Stock motors and electronics.


Any help would be greatly appreciated.

~Scott

bjethier

Just a thought, could you have a problem with the voltage coming out of the 3 in 1.  Causing low voltage and power to the motors

aircrash

Hi Scott,

Well storing a li-po fully charged does not harm the battery. Only that it is dangerous to do so (li-po should be stored at 3.75V for safety reasons).
But when it was stored fully charged then do not charge it again prior to use. This is a not to do.

Hmm, check the flybar link rod adjustment.
Once it is not adjusted well then the upper rotor blades have a blade tracking problem. Which means the heli will wobble and experience also TBE(toilet bowl effect).
In addition the upper rotor pitch is not right. This means that there will be little or even not at all lifting power from the upper rotor.

Check the motor`s plugs. They may be not fully inserted to the 3in1.

Check the lower rotor blade tracking. It should be almost perfect.
If not then most probably its two linkages are not the same length and/or the blade grips are bent and/or the lower rotor holder is bent.

Do not overighten the blades. They must be able to move but not freely.

Check a few posts back for the same problem. Last two pages have covered this.

Happy flying,
Spiros

rhodesengr

I just did the canopy/tail/skid upgrade. The acnopy comes with two black rods to hold it in place. However, the upper rod from the stock setup seems glued in place. Seems like just the lower rod is enough to hold the canopy in place but I'm wondering if that is the intention. or, am i suppoed to get the short upper rod out and replace with the longer one that comes with the canopy? One oberservation is that it is a bit of a hassle to have to take the canopy off to install/remove the batery. Otherwise its definately more rugged but that's not saying much. The stock canopy was paper thin and torn after only a handful f uses. Why don't they just make the helicopters wit these better parts in the first place?

Geemeenuu

Thanks guys!

I'm happy to report that my BOl is back in the air! I got to show it off to some friends today... i heard the word "awesome" a lot . I think the main issue was a flared out 3D pro lower blade. I put esky lower blades on, and the tracking was perfect. The lift was back to normal too. There still a slight tracking issue with the 3D upper blades, but i should have more esky upper blades on mon or tues. If the esky blades dont solve the upper tracking issue, then i'll start tweaking the flybar linkage.

While im here, how do you folks feel about the xtreme productions parts? Are they worth the money? They look sexy, but are they durable and do they offer noticeably improved performance?

Best regards,
Scott

rhodesengr

I have the xtreme inner shaft, blade, canop, tail, and skid. The stock blade are super brittle and break easily. The stock canopy is super thin and tore after a few uses. the extended shaft does seem to keep the blades from hitting. The stock skid either arrived broken or broked after a few drops.As I posted earlier, it would be nice if they just made it better to start.I don't know if its worth the money. Thats a subjective opinion. It still performs like a coax.

aircrash

Xtreme productions upgrades are high quality.
I have many of them and like them.

If you fly outdoors then the Extended Inner Shaft +15mm is a must.
I would add a Metal Bearing Housing.
I have used the first version of the xtreme blades (white) and they are good and forgiving to a beginner`s thumbs. Not for sporty flights though. Best for indoors.
I have a set of Hard Main Blade that unfortunately I have not flight tested.
Sure the white color makes the BOL cool. Ihave many white ones so all my static model BOL (those I don`t fly, only decorate) have such.

If you like the Esky blades then this is the link for you, or this one.
I do like them.


@rhodesengr

The fuselage rods can be removed, although they are glued, if you have patience.

aircrash

The fuselage indeed breaks so easily.
It can be repaired by sticking some clear packaging tape.
If you want a super durable fuselage then apply a layer of clear packaging tape to the whole fuselage before it breaks. A layer to the inside also (except of the tail of course).
All my flying BOLs have this mod with a minimum visible affection. When it flies it is not visible at all, when stationary it does not look bad.
No more broken fuselage even if it crashes from 5m high (or even more).

Ihave not broken the skids even from very bad crashes. They seem so durable that I could say they are indestructible.
Ihave 12 RTF BOLthat have the same skids. Bought within a 18 month period, different batches (other parts have differences), from different vendors. I have also some spare skids (spare parts) that were bought as Ithought they would be useful when they break but no use till now, no skids were broken.
All those skids are the same, the same quality. Flexible and indestructible.
Maybe you got something else.

Sure they should have installed a more durable fuselage. Pity as the fuselage is cool. A scale helicopter, far better than the toy like canopy tail boom.

aircrash

So, after so many flights, well they are not so many, Ido not crash any more.
But till Iget here Ihad many crashes. Ilearnt a lot out of them.
Now I crash only the 450CPs I have. In fact I only crash, not flying at all...

PS. the outer shaft can be straightened if any wants to. (if it is not heavily bent)
Just remove the upper rotor`s head (if you have an xtreme inner shaft), lower the lower gear so it does not spin and remove the lower rotor blades.
Now take a permanent marker, have your arm still (like supporting it by resting it to a chair or something), and start the BOL so the outer shaft spins at low speed.
While it spins move your arm a little till the marker touches the shaft very slightly.
Stop the bird and you have marked the shaft where the shaft is bent.
Hold the shaft by the base (as close to the collar) and press by hand to the opposite side than the marker is. Do it in steps and you`ll have a 100% straight shaft.
Do not apply too much force as you`ll damage the bearings and/or the frame.

rhodesengr

Just had my upgraded Lama out for three batteries. Either I am getting better or the xtreme canopy/tail/skid upgrade flies better. This is also with the extended shaft and the Xtreme black blades.I think there is less crossectional area with the boom/canopy kitso side winds produce force. Lots of fun.

So how excatly do I remove the glued upper rod?

aircrash

Good to hear you enjoy it.
After some flights you`ll get better and better and most importantly you`ll get confidence and your thumbs will move by their own.


Well, try to move the plastic frame tabs a little back and forth. Very slight movement and they won`t break.
If you take some long nose pliers and try to rotate the rod helps.
The rod may break though if you apply too much force with the pliers.

Geemeenuu

I have an extended shaft, just not the xtreme one. It came with a metal swash and blade grip kit on ebay for $13. Looks like low grade aluminum though (the swash and grips, not the shaft), and given the fatigue characterists of aluminum i'm not sure how long some of the parts will last. As for blades, i think i'll stick with the less expensive ones while i'm still crashing frequently. When i stop crashing so much i'll try the more expensive xtreme blades. Think i will start setting aside some $ for other xtreme parts though. I can see how xtreme canopy/tail boom would improve stability in the wind... less surface area on the tail that could "grab" the wind.

I had my first death roll this morning! I had the BOL really cooking through a turn and BAM! it rolled over and dropped. Thought it was all over, but somehow no blades were damaged, just a bent stabilizer! Straightened it back out, and got back in the air. In fact, i crashed several times today but never damaged a blade. Guess that means im either getting better at crashing, or i should go by some lottery tickets today, lol. Also, ive learned that if you have to crash into something, vines such as honeysuckle or wild grape are very good at catching your bird without damaging it

~Scott

rhodesengr

what type of surface are you crashing on? Grass? pavement? last weekend I broke an Xtreme top blade just by tipping sideways when i brought it down. It was not even a crash. The stock blades broke in a similar manner the weekend before but that was from blade stike before I put in the extended shaft. I am not sure about flying performance difference but the stock blades seem very brittle and prone to breaking. I am now flying over a lawn area so minor tipoves when it comes down are not breaking blades. I have not really dumped it hard from any height yet with the Xtreme set up. I am still using the stock blade grips and don't see any issues with them.

Geemeenuu

When i death rolled , it was on to a compacted sand/gravel driveway, from about 15 ft in the air with a lot of velocity. It was pure luck that i didnt break every single blade and then some. A couple of mediocre crashes on to grass, and a couple into vines (the gentlest option). I removed the training gear and have been practicing landing on an 18" square tile. Tipped it over a few times, but still no blade breaks.

aircrash

Do not use it at all.
It will only make your heli fly worse, with problems and will not stand any crash.

The flybar will have too much slop, the swashplate most probably will have slop out of a bad bearing, the swashplate`s ball links are in a wrong position, so the blade grips`, the blade grips will bent after the first crash, the lower rotor holder will have slop to the pins and most probably the collar for the inner shaft has no lip, which will make the collar run on the outer race of the bearing and so too much friction.

Do not use it all.

If you want to upgrade your BOLso it flies better outdoors but do not want to spend a fortune then buy only the xtreme extended shaft and nothing else of the rotor`s parts.
Keep all other stock.
If you have some money to spend then you can add some more xtreme parts but the most important is the extended shaft.

Geemeenuu

Well, you get what you pay for i suppose. I now have the xtreme extended shaft on order, along with the xtreme delrin gears and outer shaft since i already have a bad spot on the outer shaft gear. Yay! Battery is charged, time to fly! Thanks for all the advice!

~Scott