Tinkman

  OK, today I started experiencing some serious problems with my tail rotor. In the middle of a flight the tail started acting very erratic. It got s bad the heli was un-flyable. As I tried to hover again, the tail rotor became very unpredictable. It would go from full right rudder, to barely controllable, to off from one second to the next; in random order. Adjustments to trim and 4 in 1 seemed to have no effect. Changing batteries, no effect. Does this sound familiar to anyone? Are these symptoms of my 4 in 1 dieing?
  Any help would be appreciated before I start doing the "remove and replace" deal trying to figure out what's going on.
Some bckground information, in case it has any bearing:
  I just installed a 380 Extreme main motor and switched to a 2 cell 1300 mah LiPo battery.
Thanks in advance!

Tinkman

pgroom_68

Hey again Tinkman,

Yip it sounds familiar to me - my Dragonfly #4 went through TAIL MOTORS (like 5 in 2 months[:'(]). I think it is a design problem that they cannot fix 'cause so much is demanded of these small motors.....[]

Do you have a Honeybee FP original? I thought you have a v2 - which runs on 3-cells (11.1V) the Big Lama lipo is identical actually....

Peter[sm=49_49.gif]
P.S. The installation of the 380 Xtreme main will have no detrimental effects on the 4in1 at all.

Tinkman

Hey Peter,
  Thanks for the quick reply.
Nope, I have have the "MKIV" 7.4v. Funny, I expected the tail motor to die eventually, but I figured it would just cease or something. These symptoms I never would have expected. I guess I need to keep a supply on hand until I can switch to the direct drive system, eh?
  Thanks again Peter,

  Tinkman

Tinkman

  OK, just ordered a new tail motor and heat sink from slick zero. I guess now I have to sit on my thumbs till they arrive.... Bummer.
Well, at least the repair only cost me $10.00. Can't beat the HB for spare parts!

Tinkman

pgroom_68

Hey again Tinkman,

I will upload a pic of my new Honeybee FPv2 below so you can see what I've just bought - it runs an 11.1V lipo that is exactly the same as the ones in my Esky Big 500 Lama. I have three of these BOLs now - I seem to be collecting them - and they are around the same size (but coaxial)..........

In the second pic you will see a small clear plastic rectangle just above the wall adapter. This is the edge of a [link=http://www.miracle-mart.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=110_230&products_id=3037]Direct Drive Tail Motor Pack[/link] that I asked them to include at the same time to combine shipping![sm=wink_smile.gif] If I have learnt anything from flying my Walkera Dragonfly #4 FP it is that you can never have enough original tail motors. Hopefully this new DD system will elimate this design/usage flaw.

Peter[sm=shades_smile.gif]
P.S. Just think - that $6.71 that you paid for the [link=http://www.slickzero.com/page/SRHP/PROD/HBFP/EK1-0001A]replacement tail motor[/link] could have been used to order half a DD pack.....after which you can buy just the [link=http://www.miracle-mart.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=3036]DD motor[/link] IF needed (I don't know yet - only time will tell) Of course, you would still have to wait a couple of weeks from HongKong.....

pgroom_68

Hey again Tinkman,

In my limited experiences with electronics - they either work or don't. If something is dying it is either your motor or lipo (but the battery is still OK in your post), the pinion slipping on the motor shaft, the gear mesh(s), or (very rarely) the wiring making an intermittant connection. I have gone through 2 x 3in1 / 4in1s so far and in both cases one of the channels just stopped going - on one of the occasions I actually saw the dreaded white smoke coming out and everything! You can't return the white smoke!

Peter[sm=shades_smile.gif]
P.S. Did you do the "chop" on one of those ring-like rods? I'm just curious as to whether the glue you use to hold the stainless steel "threaded rod" insert would be strong & yet flexible enough to survive on a highly vibrating heli head. You wouldn't want it coming apart during flight
P.P.S. I don't think this link is suitable - just shows a pic of the concept![sm=idea.gif] Did I understand [link=http://www.rc711.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=60_61&products_id=956]your idea[/link] correctly?[sm=confused.gif]

Tinkman

Hello Peter,
  About the tail motor, it's not the pinion slipping. I checked that. Imagin flying your heli with some little guy under the canopy with a screw driver dialing your 4 in 1's proportion screw back and forth wildly. Tough flying, believe me! It's to the point now where when I start to throttle up, at say less than 5%, before the main rotor starts to turn, the tail motor suddenly goes into full throttle and the HB starts to spin in circles like an ice skater. 

  As for the ring like push rods, yes, you have the concept right but I haven't tried it yet. I guess you could say I have other issues to deal with right now. []
  The amount that I intend to lengthen those push rods is so slight that I wasn't even going to thread the rods. I thought I'd just drill them and permanantly glue them in place. I may end up using epoxy in stead of super glue. I figue if I scuff the rod before I glue it, it may have something to grip to. Also the excess epoxy may help to strengthen the joint. I'll let you know when I come up with a solution.
  I'd still like to hear from anyone who has installed the aluminum rotor assembly to see if they have seen the same problem, or if I just have one that's out of spec.

Tinkman

Chad9703

So I installed the Xtreme brushed 380 motor and the main rotor spins in the wrong direction. How do I fix this? Just reverse the servo?

pgroom_68

Hey again Chad,

You just unsolder the wires on THE MOTOR and resolder them the other way around AND the diode, according to [link=https://www.ushobbysupply.com/product_info.php?products_id=477]this link[/link]. I haven't come across this before[sm=confused.gif] - as I thought the 380 motors were wound so they spin in the correct direction!

Please keep us informed.....

Peter[sm=shades_smile.gif]
P.S. The servos only change direction via the swashplate

pgroom_68

Hey again Tinkman,

Been thinking. Do you have access to another Esky Tx that you can swap the crystals / un-bind and re-bind with and thus eliminate that. I seem to recall ages ago reading about a guy having troubles with his worn Tx - in particular the metal contact which the arm from the control stick actually moves along to reduce/increase the outputs as the stick is moved was wearing thin. It is a long-shot, but it is worth eliminating as a possibility until your tail motor arrives......

Peter[sm=49_49.gif]

Disney1

The tail motor problem very well could be TX related,
You might also try pulling the back off the TX and cleaning the Joy Stick wioers with Tuner Cleaner.\


Ron Sr

Tinkman

Hey Guys,
  Thanks for the input. I won't have access to a tx till tomorrow, so I thought I could test it using FMS. I figured if it was the tx giving bad info it would do the same to the simulator. The simulator flew fine, but I may try swapping crystals anyway.
  Is there anything I should know about before I pull the crystals? Is there anything to the binding process other than turning on the transmitter?
Also, just for information, my transmitter is only a few weeks old so it shouldn't be worn but I'll open her up and take a peek anyway.
  Thanks again,

  Tinkman

Disney1

Tinkman:
There is no binding process for 72Mhz. radios
The amount of time you have had the TX/RX is not always an indicator of the age of the parts.
They may have been made as much as 1 year ago and you do not know the enviroment they have been stored in prior to you purchasing the Heli.
However the SIm test wes a very good idea and to me is shows that the wipers are clean.

Hmmmm. Gonna have to think about this one.

Anyone else with ideas?

Tinkman

  Here's some information that may have an effect, I don't know.
The day prior I sprayed some WD-40 on the main rotor gear. At first flight after that it flug residual oil onto the ground under the hover. Could some of the oil have gotten into the 4-1 and be causing problems?
  Thanks,
   Tinkman

Chad9703

So I switched the wires and diodes and this fixed the problem.

Disney1

Tinkman:
Oil is generally non conductive to electricity, but WD40 is not motor type oil.
It is remotely possable that this could have an effect if it got into the RX.
If you opent the 4 in 1 be very carful and clean any oil you may see with a Q-Tip or cotton ball wet with Alcohol.
Make sure it is completly dry of alcohol before you run the RX.
I use either Sewing Machine Oil or bearing oil for R/C race cars. It ishich viscosity,but man it really dose the job and a little gose a long way.

Disney1

Hey pgroom_68:
Verry nice. But I see a "screw lose" on the floorin that last photo.
Is that a hint?

Tinkman

Disney,
  Thanks for the tip. I'll open her up and see what I find. I actually used a non-silicone oil which is intended for paint guns on the motors. Like your bearing oil, it is very thick. I only used the WD-40 on the outer workings to provide some lubercation and to clean the dust out of the main rotor gear.
  I'll let you know what I find.

  Tinkman

Disney1

Good on the oil. Let us know if you find any oil in the RX and if removeing it helps.
I will keep wracking my brain about it.
But as you can see from my avatar it isn't very big.
But it is totally dedicated to the task.

Tinkman

Thank you very much. I appreciate the help.

Tinkman

Tinkman

Hello All,
  Well, I have some interesting updates.
  I opened the 4-1 and cleaned the inside like Disney suggested. I did not find oil inside, but there was white crusty looking stuff around some of the soldier connections, so I cleaned both boards with alcohol and reinstalled.
  After it was back togeather the erratic tail behaviour was gone, but in testing I found that (I believe) the gyro is no longer working. I say this because in the past I've noticed that if you trim your tx to full right rudder and apply just enough throttle to get the tail motor running, then manually wag the tail, you will notice the tail motor speed up and slow down in an attempt to compensate. This no longer happens. When I do this test, the tail motor remains at a constant speed.
  I tried to fly the heli but found it to be impossible, at least for me because I could not keep up with the tail movements and operate the cyclic at the same time.
  I  guess I'll have to order a new 4-1 unless someone has another option.
Thanks in advance,

  Tinkman

pgroom_68

Hey Disney1,

...Didn't think anyone would notice that! Yea, it's probably one from my head

Peter[sm=49_49.gif]

pgroom_68

Hey again TInkman,

It still might be a bad tail motor IMO. Wait until you have tried installing your new one before forking out the big bikkies for a new 4in1. Silicon spray is non-conductive and ideal for mechanics - but normal WD-40 is not! As Disney1 suggested, sewing machine (light) oil is great for motor shafts - but don't use more than a drop. For the record do you have FM or 2.4G?

Peter[sm=shades_smile.gif]

pgroom_68

...glad that your problem is fixed! Do you still have a lift prob with a Xtreme 380 motor installed?

Peter[sm=49_49.gif]
P.S. Don't forget to run-in the new motor to bed the brushes well! Instructions above (post #19)

Tinkman

Hey Peter,
  Mine is an FM

Tinkman