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  1. #1

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    Options for castor oil?

    I have most of a case of liter bottles of Castrol A747 that I use in a racing motorcycle, so this is my first choice for blending my own diesel fuel. Anybody ever use this stuff? I understand that it is a blend of castor and synthetic, but have never been able to find the true story.

    My other option is Klotz BeNol, which I've used in bikes before, and can get pretty easily around here. It smells lovely, and I've seen som references to folks using it in their diesel blends.

    Your thoughts, ideas, criticisms?

  2. #2

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    RE: Options for castor oil?

    I'm not familiar with Klotz Benol, but the safest bet is to stay away from synthetic blends and stick with straight castor.

  3. #3

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    RE: Options for castor oil?

    Steve and Jeff, Klotz Benol will be fine and actually recommended by the little master (Dave Owen) himself. The name 'Benol' comes from 'bean oil' and simply is a degummed castor that actually mixes with kero without needing the ether being added to it!

    Castrol A747 seems to be a mixture of synthetic and castor oils and whilst I don't trust it I can't give a reason why! Perhaps its the note on the product 'specially formulated for water cooled engines' and should be spelt 'this oil can't take heat.'

    And shouldn't this thread but entitled "Options for pure castor oil?'


  4. #4

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    RE: Options for castor oil?

    Some T/R competitors use a little Maxima 927 Racing Castor in their lube package, or at least did so at one time. Apparently it aids in minimising carbon deposits.

    There's an interesting article in Dec 2003 Australian Control Line News on this, by an F2C flier.
    Here's an extract, taken from another site devoted to C/L, which may be some interest to some:

    quote

    "Proposed Ingredients and percentage:
    A) Oil
    a. 7% Castor + 3% Maxima Racing Castor 927
    b. 10% Castor
    i. Castor can be Klotz Benol, Bakers AA or Castrol M
    (first 2/3 of a cannister)
    ii. Klotz Benol should be preferred oil as it has some
    additives added and is more stable and oxidise less
    upon storage (I have evaluated fuel containing only
    6% Castor on the bench and Klotz works very well,
    easy to set and stable performance, faster than 10%
    oil). There are distributors in some countries.
    iii. Maxima Racing Castor 927 can be replaced with 3%
    Castor, but Castor 927 has additives that works in
    reducing carbon build up/softer deposits. It works
    better than Lubrizol 52 (or ADX 511?) for carbon
    deposit control, and it the only additive that I know
    which significantly reduces the iron oxide deposits
    on center of piston top when Ferrocene is used.
    There should be distributors in Europe where high
    performane jet skis or snowmobiles are used. There
    is a distributor in Singapore for 1/2 gallon bottles"

    unquote

    The castor 927 is available from better motor cycle shops around here.

  5. #5

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    RE: Options for castor oil?

    I'm leaning toward using the A747 because it's what I have on-hand. I have maybe a half full bottle of BeNol, but it's been hanging around for some years now. I've seen that the local dealer stores theirs outdoors in the cold which is a no-no from what I understand. I could wait until summer to order some that hasn't been frozen, but I want to start breaking in my engines now.

    I don't recall the reason for the Castrol A747 being blended for liquid-cooled engines. They tend to have tighter clearances, and more stable, but still hot, operating temperatures than air-cooled engines. Both Honda and Yamaha specify this oil for their production racers, and it has a very long track record in that use. You can Google up TZ250 to see the bike I'm running, and there are some pretty good Youtube videos showing how the engine runs.

  6. #6

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    RE: Options for castor oil?


    ORIGINAL: RDJeff
    I don't recall the reason for the Castrol A747 being blended for liquid-cooled engines. They tend to have tighter clearances, and more stable, but still hot, operating temperatures than air-cooled engines. Both Honda and Yamaha specify this oil for their production racers, and it has a very long track record in that use. You can Google up TZ250 to see the bike I'm running, and there are some pretty good Youtube videos showing how the engine runs.
    Jeff, pure castor has a higher viscosity that A747 and it is favoured for aircooled engines. (Iagree with the tolerances issue.)

    Not saying that 747 is no good but that you should use an oil that suits the most stressed part of your engine and in a diesel that is definitely the big end - a high castor content ensures a high film strength as well as a good compression seal.


  7. #7

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    RE: Options for castor oil?

    You can successfully use A747 and Benoil in diesels but mostly the AAC or ABC p/l types. They can also be used with conventional diesels with chromed liners and specially fitted cast iron pistons. Your PAW 29 won't run well with either and may sustain damage. Good quality 100% Castor Oil is 100% safe for these engines. Why not drop Paul Eifflaender of PAW an email and get this opinion rather than risk your engine.

    Normal0falsefalsefalseontGrowAutofit />MicrosoftInternetExplorer4paul@paw.ac


    ORIGINAL: RDJeff

    I'm leaning toward using the A747 because it's what I have on-hand. I have maybe a half full bottle of BeNol, but it's been hanging around for some years now. I've seen that the local dealer stores theirs outdoors in the cold which is a no-no from what I understand. I could wait until summer to order some that hasn't been frozen, but I want to start breaking in my engines now.

    I don't recall the reason for the Castrol A747 being blended for liquid-cooled engines. They tend to have tighter clearances, and more stable, but still hot, operating temperatures than air-cooled engines. Both Honda and Yamaha specify this oil for their production racers, and it has a very long track record in that use. You can Google up TZ250 to see the bike I'm running, and there are some pretty good Youtube videos showing how the engine runs.

  8. #8

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    RE: Options for castor oil?

    Great idea Bloke! I just sent off an e-mail asking about these oils. Thanks for the link!

  9. #9

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    RE: Options for castor oil?

    So I found some medical grade castor at Wal-Mart, so that should work. It was a beautiful sunny day today, temp was up to +18F, so I decided to break in some engines! I ran the MK-17 first, my first ever diesel run. I ran about 4 oz. of fuel through it. Ther exhaust residue was a real light grey. This engine gives a good indication of when it's ready to run, and it is loud!

    Next, I started up the PAW29. What a sweet runner! This engine gives no indication when it's ready to start, it just starts. I ran about 8 oz. of fuel through it. They exhausr residue was a very light brown color.

    It was a good day, and I'm jazzed about the whole diesel concept,and can't wait to get one in the air!

  10. #10
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    RE: Options for castor oil?


    ORIGINAL: RDJeff

    Ther exhaust residue was a real light grey.
    The engine can be dirty inside when the engine leaved from factory. Wash the engine in gasoline before use as MK-17 instruction say.. due to get rid of lapping paste and swarf in the engine.

    I has 2 MK-17 engines and MK-17 instruction book at russian.
    Jens Eirik
    Carpe diem quam minimum credula postero

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    RE: Options for castor oil?


    ORIGINAL: fiery
    Some T/R competitors use a little Maxima 927 Racing Castor in their lube package, or at least did so at one time. Apparently it aids in minimising carbon deposits...
    Bear in mind that these are highly competitive TR guys who don't mind wearing out an engine for competition, and are using minimal oil (10%) to allow maximum kerosene for power and running time per unit of fuel. For more moderate running, I would double the oil content for longer engine life.

    Of course this is only one opinion...your engine, your choices.

    George

  12. #12

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    RE: Options for castor oil?

    G'day George

    Thanks for that timely caveat ... I'm no advocate of low oil percentages! That said, it is interesting to see what those in competition at the highest levels get up to.

  13. #13

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    RE: Options for castor oil?

    This might change ones mind about using A747 in a critical aircooled total loss engine -

    http://www.proformanceusa.com/castro...%28MSDS%29.pdf

    It seems to have a synthetic content from 70 to 40%, castor from 10 to 30% and detergent 10 to 30 %.

    So you will never know what ratio you will get within that band.

  14. #14

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    RE: Options for castor oil?

    I'm a little late with this post, having just strolled by this stringcouldn't resist putting in a comment. Six years ago I bought a considerably used .40 OS FP and made a head for it. I have given heavy use to that engine every season, hauling a 12X6 on a self-designed cardboard wing plane. That engine has never seen a drop of castor oil. I've run various types of motor oil but settled on 15W-50 synthetic mixed half/half with modified olive oil at 20 to 22% of the total fuel mix. The 15W-50 gives a nice seal and the modified olive helps keep things clean. The FP is perfectly happy with 25% ether and will, with a little coaxing, run ok on 20% as long as the ambient temperature is above 50F (10C).

    People who don't know any better shriek in horror when I say this but: glow engines run more safely on castor; diesel engines don't need it. Unless you're running way over compressed (which will destroy your engine in short order no matter what the lube), a diesel won't get hot enough to ever need the polymerizing protection of castor. If you don't mind an oily hand, put it in front of the exhaust while running. . .it's hardly warm. Virtually all of the oil gets spit out, carrying some of the modest amount of combustion heat that is generated with it. Don't even think about putting your hand in front of a glow exhaust.

    My .40 FP gets torn down at the end of each season for inspection. While six years of heavy use has caused some wear and reduced compression in this engine, there is no sign of galling on the piston and the rod has no slop. Similarly, the plain bearing/crankshaft has no significant play. I know that European readers won't be surprised by any of this; many of them used motor oil a few decades ago without any consequences beyond needing to clean the head now and then.

    I also run an Enya .25 diesel and a couple of converted Norvel .061's (the latter on 40% ether). None of them have ever had castor fuel and all have a few years of running on themjust not as many years as that old used .40 FP. The only exception I can think of for any of this is the correct fuel mix for racing dieselswith minimum lube and lots of kerosene plus the sometimes addition of some fairly toxic cetane enhancers, these nasty little beasts do get hot, and castor might be a good idea for them.

    A footnote: discussions about converting olive oil can be found by searching this forum and the fuel forum.


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