fiery

My Feedback: (2)

It looks like production of the Irvine line of model engines will be moving to India. The source is UK based, and seems to be in touch with the major players in the Irvine stiry to date.

Let's hope this does not result in a lessening of quality, and includes the resuscitation of their wonderful line of diesels!

http://www.rcindia.org/rc-outlets-an...e8efd308bdec3f

earlwb

Interesting and I had thought that O.S. had bought Irvine out a number of years ago and sort of OS'ified the engines.
I suppose they could sell the business to a Indian company.
In my opinion it would make no sense to offshore the manufacture.
So maybe they are selling the company to someone from India.
I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens. it might just be a wild rumor.

AMB

I am not surprised, why would OS make and engine in competition with the OS line and they did not keep even it the same. looks like this is going from bad to worse. Pity the UK made was a gem martin ( at least I have the real ones 40 diesels , 20 diesel, 46 and 53s with davis heads and a 39

Motorboy

I has some tools for my hobby workshop made in India, they are well made with good quality of work..

Hope the Indian made engine will be of same quality as before.

fiery

My Feedback: (2)

Jens

I hope they follow the path of quality.

I have an Aurora diesel model engine (K-600), and am sad to say that it is a non-runner out-of-the box due to numerous defects. The conrod is egged on the little end and appears to have been drilled by hand off centre!

It is a pity, as the base design seems very sound.

It sits in pieces in disgrace at a friends machine shop.

qazimoto

My Feedback: (1)

Nothing new about it on the internet. That email is six months old.
The only mentions go back to that single email. You'd expect quite a discussion about this if it were true.

Ray

gkamysz

My Feedback: (19)

This kind of stuff takes months to occur. Moving tooling from where it is to where it's going to be and setting up equipment takes time. Cross Irvine off the list for me.

Motorboy

The trouble is the worker in model engine maker workshop. They are not trained to make more precision in work. There are no wrong with the tools made in India. You can google after the tools made in India and learn out how are the tools in qualityand price

qazimoto

My Feedback: (1)

Well apart from the original six month old posting on an Indian forum there is not one other mention of this event on the Internet. You would expect that there would be some discussion on the British forums. There are other businesses called "Irvine", perhaps one of these was sold off to India and the original poster was confused.

I don't think that Ripmax (the owners of Irvine) sold the business to OS. I believe that they contracted to them only the manufacture and assembly of the engines.

Significantly the "Just Engines" website has no mention of the move to India either.

I'll stick my neck out and say that this is another unsubstantiated rumor.

Ray

fiery

My Feedback: (2)

Ray

These sorts of commercial transactions are covered by confidentiality agreements which are tighter than a ducks derriere in an icepond.

If I were a betting man I'd wager the news is true. The thread starter on the Indian site is based in the England. I recall the war time phrase that starts with "loose lips".

Seems that may have ocurred here? And why would anyone start that type of rumour?

If the news is "kosher", the deal will take time ... a great amount of it.

Remember the re-location of Super Tigre production to China? The more popular ST engines were unavailable for years. Lots of questions from the sidelines ... and then ... Wham! ... big splash; ST engines back on the market, seemingly as good as ever.

We can only hope the same scenario plays out here.

I recall Jaguar cars were recently sold to an Indian concern. Seems like the former colony with it's rapidly expanding economy is now picking the eyes out of its former overlord's industry.

qazimoto

My Feedback: (1)

Time will tell, but it's significant that the rumor started six months ago and still nothing and we're not talking about some highly sensitive aerospace product here vital to the security of the western world.

It's a lot of model aeroplane engines! So why would it be a secret?

That's not how I remember the ST sale either.


Ray

Skeptical is my middle name!

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

Ray, Derek is right on concerning the SuperTigre move, there was either no information or there was mis-information nothing in between. Now, what I wonder is, if like SuperTigre, they are moving the manufacturing equipment or just the name and existing or new machinery is going to be used.
Now, I've had a SuperTigre 4500 piston and a 3000 piston on backorder for about 2 years now.

gkamysz

My Feedback: (19)

To prevent rumors from killing the brand before they even have a chance to prove themselves. We all "know" that product from that part of the world is, um, substandard. Therefore a year or more of, well that brand is junk now, will lead to less then spectacular sales when it shows up again.

earlwb

it isn't that bad as to quality of the products out of India.
They actually do make some good products, but usually we don't see them much here.

I remember once when a Indian firm bought the factory that made Vespa motor scooters. They literally moved the entire factory to India, and got it up and running and very faithfully copied the Vespa scooters and manufactured many thousands of them over the years. 99.5% of the production was sold in India but a tiny percentage of them came into the USA. The parts were completely interchangeable, you could drop in a new Indian made Vespa engine for the junk engine in the original without much if any difficulty.

The British early model Raleigh bicycle was another example. The British government contracted with a factory to make the bicycles for them in India in the 1920's. They still make them today to the same standard of the 1920's original bicycle. But we don't normally see them here in the USA or elsewhere for that matter. Very few got exported. I happen to have one I got brought in, but I had to completely assemble it though, but it was a lot of fun, a huge 3D puzzle of a sorts.

So they can make good items like engines in our case. But they have to train their people well and learn to not cut corners and put out shoddy products. Otherwise that bad reputation they get will stay with them for many years. I think Aurora had that happen in the past as well as some other companies.

of course it still has one wondering if the Siedel radial engines as made by UMS are any good or not. That isn't something I want to have to remake a lot of parts for to get it to work.

fiery

My Feedback: (2)

Ah yes, the Bajaj scooter ... I had a friend who had one when I was a teen-ager.

Dead ringer for a Vespa. Went well though. Loved the smell of burning two stroke oil.

The empire still marches on when it comes to good old brit motorcycles. Royal Enfield's are still made - in India. An Indian concern bought the tooling in the late 60's and the bikes are still the same. On the export model, you can even get an electric starter! . Several models are available from the Aussie distributor.

If the rumour is true, it will take time for the Irvine's to re-appear. Beaurocracy in India moves at glacial pace, and there will be many nabobs to be appeased.

AMB

I Guess certain things just don't filter down in both China and India they have some brilliant folks who have made outstanding contributions in the field of basic sciences, medicine, etc.
and prehaps the faults does result from lack on training in skills such as machining . Some folks get together and lets make engines, standards are lacking without the skills needed. In the US, UK, Europe
and Down under machinists undergo training, apprentiships and similar programs.some must exist over there but not enough, from the farm to the shop does not work for a quality
product. I just read where there is a shortage right here in the USA of tool and die makers, maybe folks do not want to get their hands dirty any more
Then again greed overcomes pride of a good product and they do not want to pay for qualified help, a real bucket of worms with many factors involved

As pointed out I think Earl they can make a quality product martin

gkamysz

My Feedback: (19)

One of the guys in the club has a "modern" Einfeld. It needed a full rebuild after 6000 miles?

earlwb

Yeah they copied it very exactly. No deviations or improvements. They only recently considered electronic ignition systems.
Normally one could get quite a few miles out of them, but you had to work on them all the time. The correct oil helped a lot too. We used to use Castrol motor oil (yeah the castor oil based stuff in our bikes). I am not sure if mineral oil lubes were ever good to use in the old Brit bikes.

I always wanted one of their diesel engine powered little motorcycles. But none ever made it out of India though.

I remember all the hassle I had with several Brit bikes I owned many years ago. The Royal Enfield Interceptor 750 was the worst of the bunch.

I remember Aurora being somewhat hit and miss on their engines. I had a couple of the Mills .075 engines I bought back in circa 1977 and they were both bad right out of the box. Then later around 1981, I bought a Taplin Twin copy and it worked great. That Taplin copy ran really well, one flick starting, never missed a beat. I regretted selling it. I have a Aurora 35 RC diesel engine but I have never tried running it yet.. So I don't know if it works or not so far.

Here is my Eastman Roadster which is a copy of the old Raiegh Deluxe Model One (or DL-1) first made under contract for the British Military in 1913 in India. They never changed the design or improved on it. it is still the same today as it was then. Pushrod brakes, no cables. Oh yeah, no instructions either. Now then the quality control was me, so technically the Indians didn't have anything to do with the assembly and fitting, I did.


This is how I recieved it. I had to really put it together myself. Now the pedals were assembled, but I needed to disassemble regrease and then reassemble the pedals too.


One of my favorite things about the bike was the inflation instructions on the tires:


It has a neat bell too.

AMB

That is a ARR (almost ready to ride) kit??? they have to be kidding you have to spoke the wheels???? great job on assembly with no instructions???? martin

Motorboy

Inflate hard at the tyre???? How much is the pressure to be inflated hard?? 2 bar or 200 bar airpressure

earlwb

Thanks.
well one could order it assembled. But the shipping charges are out of sight in cost though.
having it all come in as parts saved a lot in costs.
yeah I had to spoke the wheels too. Once you get the hang of it, it isn't all that difficult.
What you really hate is finding you have some extra parts left over after getting it all built up and adjusted, etc. You can go crazy wondering if you forgot something somewhere.

motorby, I think they mean that 2 bar is equal to about 30 PSI which is the inflation pressure for the tires. But way back then, no one had tire pressure gauges, so everyone had "smart thumbs" to squeeze the tires with when they inflated them or topped them off. But it is a great statement on tire pressure though, "inflate hard".

peterburford

Ahh, the joys of old Brit. 'bikes.
I run a 1960, Triumph 650 engine on methanol in my 1964 historic racecar.
No matter how much attention, it still marks it's territory with castor oil.

gossie

Show us a pic please of the car.

peterburford

Trust that I can manage the upload.
From the business end.
Great fun to race and much faster than my courage will allow.

peterburford

A little extra.
The car is one of four built in Melbourne by Ron Kenner when he was only 27; now 74 and very active.
It ran a Norton 500, Triumph 500's and 650's. It set a standing 1/4 mile record in 1965.
With it's Brabham-style spaceframe and classic suspension it was advanced, in a time when Australia was very much to the forefront in motor racing.
I bought it as only a rusty space frame and several boxes of very rusty parts; then 18 months of rebuild.
Of course, I need constant fettling to keep it racing.
The pic shows it with mufflers. At some tracks I can run megaphones!
On methanol, it is really just a large model engine.
Peter