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Thread: Club Mills!


  1. #26

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    RE: Club Mills!

    Have one that looks close MP jet 06 letmo replica limited edition #269 approved by Josef Pfeffer got it from Carlson in 2008 NIB
    maybe he copied mills?? martin

  2. #27

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    RE: Club Mills!

    Winston

    The "CS Mills" you have shown was their earlier offering. It is known as the "Boddo" CS Mills. I will leave it to someone more knowledgeable (Chris?) to explain how it came about. CS even made a few inline twins based on it.

    The current Mills .75 replica is not called a 'Mills' for legal reasons. It is listed as a 'Navo' .75 reproduction on the CS Engines website.

    http://www.csmodelengine.com/?a=product&id=25

    Here is a stock photograph (from the CS web site):

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  3. #28

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    RE: Club Mills!




    Interesting that the CS.75cc is availaible from Ed Carlson but only the .375cc is currently available from CS


    .






  4. #29

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    RE: Club Mills!




    The Embee 75 (.643cc) .




  5. #30

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    RE: Club Mills!

    This is the original Boddo Mills as manufactured by CS-some users in the UK have reported issues, but mine has given no trouble whatsoever. It starts and handles well-and surprisingly for a Mills-cuts clean and quickly when the fuel runs out-with no burble.

    ChrisM
    'ffkiwi'

  6. #31

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    RE: Club Mills!

    A very nice example of an Embee, avalonnovi-looks like it's been polished............

    ChrisM
    'ffkiwi'

  7. #32

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    RE: Club Mills!





    I bought the Embee on ebay last year; it was sold with a new K-Mills 1.5cc r/c ( it came with carb and the tank, in box) for $93. The seller didn't name the Embee, thought it may have been another Indian, and this probably made the punters a bit careful.


  8. #33

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    RE: Club Mills!



    I lke the Josef Pfeffer .6cc and the MPJet replica of his Letmo .6cc.







    What other pictures of.6cc to .8ccengines (ofsimilar induction style) can 'Club Mills' thread readers post?




  9. #34

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    RE: Club Mills!

    Dear Winston....

    Yes, I have a recently-purchased (Ed Carlson) CS 0.75cc Mills replica. I've run it a lot on my test-stand because it was very tight at first, much more so than my other Mills replicas. I suppose I've put about one hour's time on it, and it seems to be loosening up a bit, however still tighter than I'd like. I've mounted it on my new Bugaboo and should try it within a few days pending good weather conditions. I run a 7x4 wooden prop and use a home-brew of 40% Ether, 40% Castor, 20% Kerosene, and about 2% DII (Amsoil brand DII). It doesn't run as well on either Aerodyne or DDD as it does my home-brew....about 8 - 8.6krpm max. My Indian Mills both run a little faster on the same prop and fuel, but I've heard they'll probably have shorter life-spans. I hope this little bit of experience helps you. I'm such a "newbie" at diesels, that I have an enormous amount yet to learn.

    Your pics of your various Mills are great. Should I presume that you may be ready to part with the English .75 Mills? I don't want to offend you.

    Bill

  10. #35

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    RE: Club Mills!



    Hi Bill,
    I assume that your CS'Mills' is the 'Boddo' type ( the photo is from Ed Carlson's site http://carlsonengineimports.net/)


    rather than the original Mills design (photo from CSsite www.csmodelengine.com/ ).

    Gld to hear that it is looking good so far. I would like one but I don't need it andit is still quite expensive compared
    to the MPJet .6cc at Icarehttp://www.icare-rc.com/mpjet.htm#Vintage_and_Replica
    I am tempted though!

    It doesn't suprise me that your own fuel works best. I don't have a lot of experience but from what I have read the high ether and high castor is ideal for a tight engine and I think it gives ample performance for sport flying. I don't find the ratios all that critical myself which probably shows how little I know. I am using 50% John Deere starter fluid, about 35% castor, 15% Keroand a few drops of an ignition improver.
    I don't plan to sell my original Mill's .75cc, and I realise that tidy examples are sought after on ebay, but for an all round practical engine of this size the MPJet Classic is hard to beat.

    Winston.

  11. #36

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    RE: Club Mills!

    I was fortunate enough to receive a nice used example of the original English Mills .75 as a gift.

    Whilst grubby, it is pretty much unmolested, has great compression, and turns over smoothly. Once I clean it up, it will be on the stand and running.

    It does need a replacement tank. The newness has worn off the current one [&o]. I don't believe it is the original parabolic shape tank, or an accurate replica. The tank lid tabs have been broken, and a wire clamp was made to hold the tank shown in place. Perhaps that is why the tank has a flat bottom.

    A wire extension has been soldered to the needle as well.

    Can anyone tell me if replacement tanks are available for the genuine Mills .75? If not I will contact Aurora in India, or CS, as they may be able to help.
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  12. #37

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    RE: Club Mills!

    Fiery,

    Check with Dave Owen he lists a replacement tank on his procelist.

    http://oea.modelenginenews.org/pricelist_2011-04.pdf

    Greg
    Regards
    Greg

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  13. #38

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    RE: Club Mills!

    Thanks Greg. I will do that.

  14. #39

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    RE: Club Mills!

    Hi Winston.... No, my CSMills .75 isn't the Boddo, but the older model, with one-piece crankcase and finned cylinder head. It's not gold-anodized, however, but natural polished aluminum. BTW, I just ordered a Throttled-Carb from Eric Clutton for the CS Mills. It installs into the same crankcase hole that the conventional carb does, and produces a variable speed for R/C throttle use. For just $20 it's not too expensive a gadget, and I'm looking forward to seeing it.

    For fueling the CS and the Indian Mills, I may now go ahead and mix up some increased either fuel (50%JD, 35% Castor, 15%Kero plus a little Amsoil DII), and see how that does. I really don't understand the subtleties of the role that ether plays in diesel fuel, and would appreciate a plain-spoken explanation if you have one. Yes, Castor for lube, Kero for fuel, but what about the true role of the Ether, and why would an increased ratio of it do better than less? These questions are what makes diesels so interesting to me!

    Another question,,,,, is there any comment on the Boddo type Mills that Ed Carlson is offering now? I really like its classic look, but does it perform OK? Also, does the little CS .375 Mills do well also? Both seem very well made. Any comments?

    Nice corresponding with you, Winston.....and also my friend Chris M. of course! Be well. Bill.

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    RE: Club Mills!

    Hello, Feiry! Congrats on your acquiring the neat little Mills. The wire clamp mod to retain the fuel bowl brings back pleasant memories to me. My Aeronca Champ 7AC has a glass fuel filter bowl that's held together exactly the same way as your Mills bowl! A wire clamp runs from the top lid, around the sides and has a small compression screw attachment that pushes up against the bottom of the bowl to keep it in place. My plane came off the assembly line in October 1945, so it's done its job ever since! To me, the wire clamp adds a nice aviation look!

    Have you run it yet? I sure would like to have an original Mills. I bid on a NIB one a couple of weeks ago, but was beat out at $152.50 USD! To me, that's just outrageously expensive so I'll just be content with my nice CS and two Indian Mills. Keep well. Bill Hanshaw

  16. #41

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    RE: Club Mills!

    Thanks for the kind words Bill.

    Sounds like your Champ is true to it's name. Lovely aircraft.

    Please post back with your findings on the R/C throttle. No doubt you will install it on your CS Navo "Mills". I would be interested to know just how effective it is.

    CS have some kind of limited offer on for the R/C throttle. I presume it is included for $12 if you buy an engine.

    www.csmodelengine.com/index.php


  17. #42
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    RE: Club Mills!

    I just got done repairing a old Indian Made Mills engine I bought way back in 1977. It didn't work at the time and when I discovered the connecting rod was bad, I put it back in its box in disgust and it sat like that until now. So after a few attempts at it I was successful at making a new rod for it. I still don't know if it will run or not. The intake ports are drilled rather poorly. The exhaust and transfer ports look OK, but it is hard to say about the port timing though. I also discovered that the bushing for the crankshaft would come out too. I don't know if other Mills engines have loose bronze bushings in them or not.

    Actually using two little holes for the transfer and intake ports is reasonable as that prevents the wrist pin (gudgeon pin) on the connecting rod from catching in the holes, as there is a bit of cylinder in between them. But on the transfer port they drilled the two holes rather sloppily.

    The engine all disassembled ready for cleaning and reassembling.






















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  18. #43
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    RE: Club Mills!

    What the old Aurora Indian made Mills engine looked like before I started working on it again,







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  19. #44

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    RE: Club Mills!

    Nice restoration job earl. I can't believe that original conrod [:-]

    If you would like a new tank bowl to really set it off, Barton Model Products in the UK sell them. Ask for Paul. Yours looks like it is badly perished - even though you have not been using it!

    My English Mills as shown in post no. 36 above has run. David Owen looked over it for me. It's a quality engine, very well made. It now has a new (correct shape) tank bowl, and a nice period 8x4 prop. The cut down yellow tornado that came with it has been consigned to my "old props" box [&:]. I will post pics and a video of it in a week or two.


  20. #45
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    RE: Club Mills!

    Thanks, I'll contact them and see if they have any fuel tanks left. Worst case is I might have a go at machining one out od some Delrin I have on hand. It won't be transparent though. The old crazed up ugly looking fuel tank still looks like it will hold fuel though. So I give it a whirl and see how it goes.

    I re-read the Model Engine News article about the Mills engines and I noticed thatin one of the pics that the bronze bushing does come out on the original engines, so Aurora didn't mess that up. That might have been a feature where one could replace the bushing if it wore out too much.

    I think that the pot metal aluminum alloy they used for the rod was simply too soft or something. As if it had hydraulic lock or too much compression, then the rod would have bent instead of gouging itself out like that. Or the rod was like that when they assembled the engine.

    I have a few newer replica engines made byAurora and those engines work fine. So I think this example was from when they were first making them and not very good at it yet. They may have thought of the engines being collector engines more than running engines at the time too. I had bought two engines way back then and they forgot to drill out the intake and transfer ports on the cylinder sleeve. Go figure. I had sold or traded off that second non-working engine many years ago to someone else. So who knows maybe it will pop up on Ebay one of these days. It will be a unused example too.


    Anyway, I'll be seeing if it will run real soon again.

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    RE: Club Mills!

    Hello, Chris....Well, I've continued to work on my little VA Mills .4cc, and it will start and run very weakly, about 2krpm. I feel it's a compression problem, and I've carefully sealed the crankcase so it's not leaking. I saw in Eric Clutton's book "Everything You Need To Know About Diesels", where he describes another way of increasing compression - of the contra piston, not the main piston. He tells of using acid-core solder to coat the contra, then carefully peel away the excess solder until the contra fits very well. Have you tried this? I may still have a weak piston/sleeve situation, which the solder doesn't work on. But I'll give it a try if yuo think it's a good idea. Any suggestions?

    By the way, the little Spitfire runs great and the delrin tank really adds to the look! Thanks again! Bill

  22. #47

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    RE: Club Mills!

    Hello Fiery....I read your comment about the British company that may have replacement Mills tank bowls. Do you think they might have a replacement sleeve/piston/contra assembly for my little VA Mills 0.4cc? Thanks, Bill

  23. #48

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    RE: Club Mills!

    Bill-I can't comment on the use of solder to increase the diameter of the contra-I've never heard of this method being used before-and it would be impossible to get an even coating-so you'd then be faced with having to restore circularity as well as optimum fit. Do not underestimate the criticality of the fit required-its of the order of 1/10000 of an inch or smaller-much more critical than a piston fit. By criticality I'm talking about a contrapiston fit that is tight enough to hold its position when the engine is running, but loose enough to return to a lower setting when the compression screw is backed off. Any idiot can make one too loose or too tight.
    If too loose, you can always fit a locking bar to the comp screw-either out of thick (~3mm) aly sheet or use a nut with a wire handle soldered into one of the hexagonal faces and live with it. If it is so lose it is being sucked up and down the bore then I don't think the engine would run.

    Sorry-and I thought it would be fully understood by now-I keep having to repeat it here and elsewhere-there aren't any VA spares about to speak of. VA engines appeared in the early 90's-and the two Mills replicas were the first. VA produced them to order-and the originators had to guess at what the overall market would be-so were no doubt conservative. I would estimate that probably only a few hundred of each type were produced in total. Secondly they weren't sold through normal retail channels, but through agents in various parts of the world-and there were only about half a dozen of these-Dave Banks in the UK, Dave Platt in the US, Dave Larkin in Canada, and David Owen in Australia [apparently you had to be named Dave to get a look in ;-) ] VA then went on to produce the Bambi 0.15cc, Elfin 0.25 and 0.36, the Micro 0.4cc, the Kalper .32, the 0.5cc ED Bee Mk1, 0.5cc Mills 1.3, the VA 049 Mk1 and Mk2 glows and the VA 020 [these are not necessarily listed in the ORDER of manufacture and marketing]. Once the engines were produced they were shipped off and sold via the agents. Spares and longevity were not a big consideration from the manufacturers. Spares do exist-but mainly through the goodwill of the various agents-and I suspect largely drawn from cannibilised engines rather than manufacturer inventory stock.
    VA got out of the model engine business around 2000-2001-so any engines date from then or earlier-in the case of the Mills-these were produced in the early 1990s-so they're 20 years out of manufacture.

    This is a fairly generic problem associated with replica and collector engines from eastern europe-not just VA engines-they are general produced as a single batch, on contract to a western seller, by people who see it as a 'one off' job. Any spares support has to be factored in by the original buyer-and the market is likely to be collectors in any case-why produce spares for people who are not going to run the engines anyway. What? You're going to actually put it in a model and use it?.............umm, er.................

    Short of someone stripping another VA Mills, your only option is to get a rebore done-and I have indicated previously that while quite feasible, there are few people with the skills to do it, and it won't be cheap. The people most likely to do a good job are based in the UK.

    My VA 0.4cc runs around 7,000 rpm on a nylon 6x3-so yours is definitely sick if it only does 2k.

    The guy making replica tanks is Roger Whittingham-AFAIK he does not sell direct, but various suppliers such as BMP (Barton Model Products) and David Owen stock them-the range is quite extensive, so the suppliers may not have your particular tank in stock. BMP does not as a rule hold much in the way of spare parts for anything......I wouldn't even attempt to calculate the odds that they would have a VA Mills 0.4 P/L set just sitting around.

    ChrisM


    PS.......you HAVE got your liner in the right way round I hope............
    PPS the situation with the VA 049 glows was a bit different-these were probably produced in larger numbers, and more widely sold-especially in the US. Dan Rutherford sold the Mk1 (initially) and Larry Driskill the Mk2-there was some spares support for these engines

  24. #49
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    RE: Club Mills!

    If you missed reading my earlier post a page back from here I had bought a Indian made Mills .075 engine way back in 1977 and it had a bad rod in it, In disgust I had put it back in its box and it languished in the engine bins all these years, until I decided last weekend to make a new connecting rod for it. I didn't have much hopes for it, so the rod was sort of practice for me as I need to make a couple of rods for a larger vintage O&R engine too.

    Anyway...
    Wow, amazing, the old crappy vintage 1977 Aurora made Mills .075cc engine actually runs. I was successful at getting it to run. It is still running on the anemic side. At first it could just barely run at about 3,600 rpms. But gradually as I ran more tanks of fuel through it, including refilling the tank before it ran out too, it gradually started running better and better. At first it was barely able to hold 3,600 RPMs. but on the last tank I ran through it, it held up running at a little over 6,000 RPMs. So maybe it will improve a little more and push towards 7,000 RPMs, which is around where my other Mills .075 engines are running. So if it doesn't wear out prematurely, I might actually be able to use it in something to fly.

    I was using a Master Airscrew 8x3 prop and DDD model diesel fuel.





    When it was first running it was barely able to hold 4,000 RPMs


    But gradually it started improving on its performance.


    I also used my small lathe and made a few Prop Spacers as the hole in a 8x3 prop is too large for the little engine. The spacer fits into the back large recess molded into the prop. If you use that large recessed hole, then the prop is centered and balanced too. So since I have several Mills .075 engines, replicas, etc. I made a spacer for each engine.







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  25. #50

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    RE: Club Mills!

    Excellent work Earl. Never say die.

    ***

    My Mills .75 (shown in post no. 36 of this thread) is now all tidied up.

    My thanks to David Owen for his help in sorting it, and supplying the new tank bowl.

    It has serial no. 926 stamped on the right hand lug and 76 tamped on the left hand lug. I would be grateful for an explanation of what these numbers mean, and in particular would like to know what year the engine was made.

    Running report to follow.
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