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Thread: Club Mills!


  1. #101

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    RE: Club Mills!

    I recently picked up an "as new" Irvine Mills .75, with box and papers, from a forum contributor. After settings were found, starting was as easy as it gets. One choke, two flicks, and it starts. Every time. Hot (back off compression 1/4 of a turn first, then increase when running) or cold. Just like a Mills should.

    Compression (piston seal) on this Irvine Mills .75 is excellent.

    A minor issue with it. There is too much "fore and and aft" crankshaft play. I will relieve the prop driver very slightly. It needs to be set back towards the case. About one millimetre.
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  2. #102

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    RE: Club Mills!

    A hardened steel washer or shim maybe easier to take the play out as duplicating the exact angle the crankshaft has is going to be difficult, and unecessary in the end.

  3. #103

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    RE: Club Mills!

    After more thought, I was thinking the same thing. O.S. do just that on many of their plain bearing engines.

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  4. #104

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    RE: Club Mills!

    Fiery I did this on one of my PAWs however used a brass one thinned it down by rubbing on emory whick was on a flat surface , piece of glass martin

  5. #105

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    RE: Club Mills!

    Cox International have shim thrust washers for the various models of Cox (TD 049/051, Killer bee, Queen Bee and TD 09) that used them. Fairly thin too at ca. 10 thou. You'd still (probably) have to reduce the OD a bit to fit the Irvine. IIRC the Killer Bee thrust washer is the smallest diameter of the Cox offerings.

    ChrisM
    'ffkiwi'

  6. #106

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    RE: Club Mills!

    Hello fiery,

    Just joined Club Mills and picked up on your Irvine Mills .75 excessive crankshaft end float problem. That would suggest that something is seriously wrong. Normal Irvine Mills .75 end float is ~ 0.010" (0,25mm). Excessive end float will cause the conrod ends to wear oval, the crankpin to scour the back plate and the resulting debris in the engine will cause bore wear.

    Short term expediency is to pack the float out with a washer behind the prop. driver. Long term is to correct the problem. What serial no. is your engine please? Early Irvine Mills I have been told were made entirely in the UK. Later ones were made in Taiwan. Have dismantled and rebuilt both and the Taiwanese built ones usually have issues.

    The Irvine Mills .75 design secures the prop. driver to the shaft taper on taper. To achieve a controlled end float requires precision in manufacturing. If as I suspect the taper in the prop. driver is not machined deep enough then this can be remachined to fit. Either I or others skilled in model engines can do this for you.

    Regards - Jon

  7. #107

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    RE: Club Mills!

    Welcome to the diesel forum at RCU Jon.

    There is a further problem with the above Irvine Mills .75 engine. It will not turn more than 4,800 rpm on my Tornado nylon 7x4 propeller. It should do about twice this.

    I will disassemble it. I suspect that the cylinder or piston are 180 degrees out. Piston and contra-piston fits are superb.

    ** EDIT **

    There is no serial number on the Irvine Mills .75 anywhere.

    Engine as acquired was unrun NIB and overall presents very nicely.

    A further matter.

    If anyone has a tip on how to unscrew a fuel bowl when locked solid from either old castor oil residue or factory preserving oil it would be much appreciated. I am starting to think I prefer the original Mills "tab" securing method, despite the weakness of the tabs, or the "snap" fitting of the Russian "Z" version.

    There is no pressing need to remove the fuel bowl on this engine. However numerous specks of workshop debris are lining the inner walls of the bowl. I would like to wipe the debris off.

    I am thinking of drizzling WD-40, or a penetrating oil, on the screw thread of the "upturned" bowl, and leaving for a few days to soak in, and hopefully loosen it.


  8. #108

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    RE: Club Mills!

    G' Day Fiery,

    Oh dear! 5,000 rpm on a 7 x 4 means a problem. I test run Mills .75's on a white nylon Taipan 8 x 4. Depending on engine type and condition 7,250 rpm is typical. Irvine Mills are usually quicker than genuine Mills by ~ 500 rpm.

    If you unscrew the carb. assy. and look into the crankcase the two cylinder holes should be in the centre of the venturi hole. If you have two holes or a slot at the upper edge the cylinder is in the wrong way round. Bring the piston to BDC and if you see an edge uncovering and can see into the cylinder then the piston is the wrong way round. It has a step at the top which must always face the front of the engine.

    Next with the carb. assy. off unscrew the needle and spring and look through the venturi. Should be a hole ~0.125" dia. right through. If someone has unscrewed the spray bar the hole could be partially closed off. Common fault on genuine Mils P75's when the early thin type tank top broke. By way of explanation the Mills venturis were drilled through the spray bar on assy. Retightening for a loose tank top will also cause the mismatch problem.

    Contra piston could be too loose and riding up and down on the piston when hot. You would need to unscrew the cylinder jacket to check for this. Take care turning the engine over with cylinder jacket removed as the contra piston can be blown out and lost. Lastly check for good crankcase pressure. In a well fitted engine nice and clean and oiled the piston should bounce up slightly against crankcase compression until the transfer ports are opned. At that point a little puff of gas should be heard and resistance to turning the engine through BDC should cease. If you can hear a hiss as the piston descends check for where its coming from. Irvine Mills uses a paper backplate gasket, genuine Mills a red fibre washer. Gas can be coming from the back platejoint, down the crankshaft or up past the piston and out the exhaust ports. In the case of genuine Mills also through the corrosion holes in the magnesium crankcase!

    With the cylinder jacket off pull out the cylinder and looking into the crankcase check to see if congealed castor oil is blocking the transfer port. Also check the holes/slots in the cylinder for the same blockage. To refit Mills .75 Mk II cylinders I use of piece of hardwood carved to fit right through the exhaust ports. Taper it slightly. This holds the cylinder from rotating whilst retightening the jacket. When done wriggle out the stick and blow any wood fibres clear.

    Regards - Jon

  9. #109

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    RE: Club Mills!

    Inspection process under way.

    Tank bowl unscrewed without drama after a "zen moment". Firstly, tank lid was heated with a hair dryer. Purpose - to soften gummy oil residue. Then, fingers devoid of oil residue (unlike at the field) actually achieved some purchase on the bowl.

    Debris and gum removed from threads and inner bowl.

    Carburettor securing nut was then loosened, and the assembly removed. Photographs show no issue with carburettor venturi or intake port.

    It looks like a full strip down of this wee beast is required. Partially blocked transfer passage or transfer port holes are suspected.

    I will post again once the culprit is identitfied and problem sorted.
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  10. #110

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    RE: Club Mills!

    Ah yes,  the Achilles heel of screwed tank bowls!  Really good idea to clean out thread in both tank top and bowl before neglecting the engine for some years.   I found this out same way as everyone else.   

    Be very careful using heat around Perspex/ Plexiglas acrylic type plastics.  They melt at about 100 deg C.  I made a wooden "tool" to unscrew the bowl consisting of a piece of 1 1/2" dia. wooden dowel (ex curtain rod)  and turned a tapered hole in one end to match the tanks taper.   If you wet the wood as well you can get a surprising amount of grip.  Could also use fine wet and dry paper to grip the bowl and then polish off the tank OD with Meguiars paint cleaner or a Perspex or polycarb. polish. 

    To unscrew stuck alloy Mills cylinder heads I use two pieces of 1/4" MDF into each which I have carved spherical recesses which roughly match that of the head.  Then very gently nip it up on a 4" bench vice.  For really old untouched for half a century genuine Mills I heat the head with a small butane torch first.  
    Jon

  11. #111

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    RE: Club Mills!

    Here is a new offering for the club. The new CS 0.82 cc. In R/C and F/F versions. Image is taken from the CS Engines web site.

    Looks like a "series II" of the Boddo Mills.

    There is also a claim by a contributor on another site that a 1.6 cc in-line twin version of this engine will be offered very soon. I may contact CS (Peng Han) to verify.
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  12. #112

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    RE: Club Mills!

    Other way round Dereck-this was the first version of the Boddo Mills-which CS are obviously keeping in production. Now a twin would be fun. I suppose since the CS Oliver Tiger twin has been fairly well received, CS are looking at something a bit more suited to the vintage flier. After all there are a few Mills based in-line twins out there-I think Mike Crisp has produced the odd one from time to time....

    ChrisM
    'ffkiwi'

  13. #113

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    RE: Club Mills!

    Hi Chris

    Was the Boddo Mills always 0.82 cc?

    I know that the late Mr Boddington did sell some Boddo Mills "twins". Some left over Boddo engines were recently offered for sale on Uk 8bay.

    I have not heard any bad reports about them. I'd say they were carefully inspected before sale.

    Hopefully the new CS Navo "twin" will be as good, or even better. Having an R/C throttle option will add to it's market appeal.

  14. #114

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    RE: Club Mills!

    I'll measure mine up and see..........I think his son is dealing with the vestiges of the Boddo Mills project stock-0.5s, 75, 1.3s and the in-twin 5cc Oliver

    CJM

  15. #115
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    RE: Club Mills!

    I think of all the model airplane engines that have been made over the years that the Mills type of engine has to be the best one ever done.
    If you get a decent engine, they run OK, start easily, fly planes OK and are just plain lots of fun too.

    Club Saito #722, Sig Kadet Brotherhood #80, GlowHead Brotherhood #14,
    AMA # 928076

  16. #116

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    RE: Club Mills!

    Earl,
    Well a couple of guys obviously think this.   Genuine used Mills P75 just sold on eBay for 185 GBP (~ $290).  Item no. 170915445154.  Record I think,   even for a new one in its box.
    Jon

  17. #117

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    RE: Club Mills!

    Irvine Mills shown above:

    1. Cleaned internally. It's transfer ports were gummed up.

    2. Thrust washer installed.

    I am looking forward to re-running it.

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  18. #118

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    RE: Club Mills!

    Had some fun re-running in the Irvine Mills .75 Replica shown above. Good performance on a Master Airscrew 8 x 3, and (just for fun) a Master Airscrew 6 x 4.

    For ease of starting and moderate load, the Master Airscrew blue 8 x 3 propeller is ideal.

    As to speed, mid 7,000 rpm's for the 8 x 3 propeller were the norm. Mid 10,000 rpm's were sustainable for the 6 x 4 propeller once dialled in.

    Best running needle setting is 2 1/4 turns out from closed.

    Overall it runs well and starts very easily. With compression unchanged from best running setting, open needle 1/4 of a turn to richen, give it two choked primes, and a small port prime. Three smart flicks and it's away. Every time.

    All starts were by hand only. Electric starters are not recommended nor required for these engines.

    Video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbSn-...ature=youtu.be

    Stills:
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  19. #119

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    RE: Club Mills!

    Ha!  A pleasing result.  

    The Irvine Mills .75's are very good.  A few weak points as opposed to all the rest which have a LOT of weak points and best to avoid crashing hard into anything as the crankshafts have been known to break.  In my experience the early  Irvine Mills .75 are by far and away the best of the replica Mills .75's.

    Jon

  20. #120

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    RE: Club Mills!

    CS "Boddo" twin and single.

    A report on the running characteristics of the twin would be interesting.
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  21. #121

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    RE: Club Mills!

    Fiery-Hmmn-any indication on price?

    CJM

  22. #122

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    RE: Club Mills!

    Chris .. this one could be yours

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DB-mill-75...item337d0309a8

    But hurry ... it's available for a limited time only

  23. #123

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    RE: Club Mills!

    Could be expensive collecting it in person though..................

    CJM

  24. #124

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    RE: Club Mills!

    That crankcase on the CS "Boddo Twin" looks bulky, and heavy.

  25. #125

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    RE: Club Mills!

    Ed Carlson emailed me to advise that he has CS "Boddo Mills" .75 engines available. Current price is USD $95.00, plus shipping.

    www.carlsonengineimports.net/CHINA.html

    This engine is better priced than buying from CS directly, where the engines are listed for USD $122.99 plus shipping.

    Recent reports are that the CS Boddo Mills is quite acceptable in finish and performance.

    It is the engine on the right, not the traditional Mills replica.



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