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Club Mills!

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Old 04-14-2013, 12:10 AM
  #151
James walker
 
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Default RE: Club Mills!

Thanks Chris M and Jon 
I will try and get some pics from my dad! I am only going on what he told me! Sorry. So to confirm it is probably a mills 75 mk2 if I read your post correct? And is that rare or comon? Desirable or not!
Thanks for all your help
James

Ps I must get my dad into this forum so he can ask questions and he knows what he is talking about

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Old 04-14-2013, 02:42 AM
  #152
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Default RE: Club Mills!

We can only answer what you put up-wrong information in a question will get a wrong answer (obviously). The engine commonly referred to as a 'Mills 75' is the Mills 75 Mk2. [Not to be confused with the IRVINE Mills 75 Mk2 which though related is quite a different beast, having a single ballrace and a Mills 1.3 style crankcase] A genuine (ie made by Mills Bros in the UK) Mills 75 Mk2 whilst much loved engines, are not uncommon-there were about 50,000 of them made by Mills Brothers over the period 1949-1964, and goodness knows how many Indian ones produced from about 1975 until a couple of years ago. So-hugely successful by the standards of the day-but not quite in the league of Cox-with millions made, or the ED Bee and OS Pet with 300,000 of each produced-which is a lot for a single model engine design! As indicate earlier, the Indian ones are identical to the British ones, but not quite so well made, and with not quite as high quality materials as the originals.

Note that there are also the Irvine Mills 75 (Mk1 very similar to the original Mills 75 Mk2, Mk2 Irvine somewhat different), the Australian Doonside Mills 75 from 1973-74 (and the subsequent Russian derivatives in the 1990s) and the current 'Boddo' Mills 75-made by CS in China and distinguishable by its gold anodised head.

So there are a lot of different Mills 75s out there.......and we haven't touched on the Mk1-which was only made from 1948-9 and fairly rare. Not to mention the NZ Mills 75-(ca 1990) of which only 7 were made-which makes them the rarest of the lot! And various people in the UK, the US and Europe have produced small numbers of replicas over the years as well.

Desirable-well that's very subjective-if you want to fly radio pattern-no use to you at all-if you want to fly control line-probably no use either. If you want to fly FF scale, FF vintage or R/C Tomboy-then quite desirable. They're not particularly powerful, but generally much loved by their owners for their reliable starting and handling. Most originals though-unless NIB-are showing their age, and are likely to have had a lot of use [let's be realistic-the LAST original ones were made almost 50 years ago!] They're not-unless NIB, pristine or some rare variant (like the Irvine centennial model)-going to sell for big money-you can pick them up on Ebay for anywhere from 40-70 pounds normally-depending on actual brand and condition-and if it's incomplete (and missing both piston and contra makes it simply a 'spares' offering!) you can expect to get a lot less than that for it....

ChrisM
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Old 04-14-2013, 03:47 AM
  #153
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Default RE: Club Mills!

Thanks Chris I will past that on to my dad he is getting back into free flight, done the rubber co2 and is now starting using his old diesel engines, 3 weeks ago we got his edb engine running after not using it for 35 years! I did not think it will work. Lol
Now he has sent me on a task to find a "dethermalizer" if that is the correct term? 
Thanks again 
James
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Old 04-14-2013, 07:20 AM
  #154
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Default RE: Club Mills!

Two more Replicas, these are made by Patrman in the Czech republic; a 1.3 Mk2 and a P75.


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Old 04-14-2013, 11:57 AM
  #155
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Default RE: Club Mills!

Both appear to be copies of the Indian Mills versions rather than the original British ones-(but nicely executed!)-the 75 looks very 'Indian' to my eye-and the 1.3 has an 'Indian' venturi-the original British Mk2 used an aluminium casting not turned barstock. The domed needle valves are also Indian style.........as are the tanks and tank tops.

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Old 04-14-2013, 12:48 PM
  #156
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: James walker

Thanks Chris I will past that on to my dad he is getting back into free flight, done the rubber co2 and is now starting using his old diesel engines, 3 weeks ago we got his edb engine running after not using it for 35 years! I did not think it will work. Lol
Now he has sent me on a task to find a ''dethermalizer'' if that is the correct term?
Thanks again
James

Go and have a look at: www.freeflightsupplies.co.uk which is Mike Woodhouse's ("supplier of fyne thynges to the world wide free flight gentry" for several decades) site-and you will find enough dethermaliser options to totally baffle you-as well as all kinds of other useful items from the mundane to the unique.

'Dethermaliser' can cover a multitude of options-from fuse to clockwork timer to viscous timer to electronic timers and it depends very much on the type of model, the size, and the motive power as to what is the appropriate choice. Mike stocks all of them........

ChrisM
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Old 04-15-2013, 12:48 AM
  #157
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Default RE: Club Mills!

Those Patrman replicas look very nice. Are they good quality, and are they still available?
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Old 04-15-2013, 07:25 AM
  #158
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Default RE: Club Mills!

Quote:
ORIGINAL: johnvb-RCU

Those Patrman replicas look very nice. Are they good quality, and are they still available?
Yes John, they are very nice. The workmanship is excellent. I have tested the P75 and it runs really well too. It's not an engine I would use in a FF plane though, because I can't another one.
I bought some Patrman engines more than 20 years ago when I had two friends here in Stockholm who travelled regularly to Czechia. They were both very interested in model engines and brought home engines from almost every trip. They are both gone now. One of them was Arne Hende, and he's the one who knew Jiri Patrman.
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Old 04-15-2013, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: ffkiwi

Both appear to be copies of the Indian Mills versions rather than the original British ones-(but nicely executed!)-the 75 looks very 'Indian' to my eye-and the 1.3 has an 'Indian' venturi-the original British Mk2 used an aluminium casting not turned barstock. The domed needle valves are also Indian style.........as are the tanks and tank tops.

ChrisM
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Hello Chris, yes I agree, they look like the Aurora diesels. Could be a coincidence too, Jiri Patrman obviously likes to play with various design features. Here are two variations of the Mills type theme, they both have the doomed needle valves.



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Old 04-15-2013, 12:07 PM
  #160
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Default RE: Club Mills!

The black headed one is more typical of his style certainly-and the little gold one (0.4cc IIRC) is cute. The 'Indian' tanks and venturis are so like Indian ones I wonder if he might have actually used the real Indian assemblies? There's a lot of tedious work in a tank assembly......or else he's produced an absolutely perfect replica of the Indian tank assembly-including the venturi, the domed needle, the coloured fuel tube (I've also seen yellow) and the crimps in the edge of the tank top to retain the tank...........

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Old 04-16-2013, 04:37 AM
  #161
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Default RE: Club Mills!

Chris,
Small point of clarifiation, the Mills 1.3 Mk II venturi is an aluminium drop forging, not an aluminium casting. It is identifiable as such by the wide and constant thickness flash line running around the part. Cast parts have minimal flash lines. Drop forged parts have substantial flash lines for excess metal to squeeze out from the hot slug. After forging the part is placed in a cliptrim die to clip this flash off. Die cast parts have very thin flash and are often rumbled in a vibratory bowl with stone chips in a detegent solution to remove flash before the next operation.

FYI attached are pics. of a replica Mills 1.3 Mk I venturi, tank and cut out assy. recently made by me. Most metal parts made in nickel silver to replicate the nickel plated finish of the original satin nickel plated brass parts of the originals.
Rgds. - Jon
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Old 04-16-2013, 04:41 AM
  #162
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Default RE: Club Mills!

Oops! Loaded piccys. of Mk II assy. Flash in this case has been mostly filed off. Now to upload the pics. of the Mk I assy.....

Jon
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:17 AM
  #163
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Default RE: Club Mills!

Jon-I stand corrected-in any case my meaning was that the venturi on the Patrman unit was turned from bar, unlike a Mills original..........FWIW the exceptionally rare NZ Mills 75 DOES use a casting for the venturi (in fact the venturi, jet and tank top are all a single casting)........

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Old 04-16-2013, 02:16 PM
  #164
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Default RE: Club Mills!

G' Day Chris,

I have to confess I have never heard of a NZ version of the Mills .75 until reading your mention of it here. Some pics. would be of interest if possible. Talking of pics. mine of the Mills 1.3 Mk I venturi and tank assy. disappeared off into cyberspace. I'll try again with this message.

Jon


PS all parts on the assy. made by me except the 6BA round head screw, which I could have made but managed to buy some........
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Old 04-16-2013, 02:46 PM
  #165
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: aeroland

G' Day Chris,

I have to confess I have never heard of a NZ version of the Mills .75 until reading your mention of it here. Some pics. would be of interest if possible. Talking of pics. mine of the Mills 1.3 Mk I venturi and tank assy. disappeared off into cyberspace. I'll try again with this message.

Jon
Jon
In the late eighties or early 90s, a guy called Steven Hainsworth initiated a project to build Mills 75s, Mills 1.3s and planned to do the Kalper and Kemp 0.2 as well. A lot of guarded interest was expressed by NZ modellers-and we waited in eager anticipation-then everything went quiet! I visited him on a number of occasions-he had a big garage (4 car size) and a lot of machinery-but (as often happens) grossly underestimated the work, time, effort and money involved in bringing such a project to fruition. [a lot of work was contracted out....and when you do that people expect payment!] The whole thing just petered out-and to the best of my knowledge, only 7 Mills 75 replicas were ever produced. ....and I don't have one....despite being one of the first to put my name down. He also made a start on the 1.3 as what I do have is a machined backplate of his in one of my original British 1.3 Mk2s, and an unmachined 1.3 crankcase casting. I also have the replica 75 box....see attached pics.......to the best of my knowledge, Steve never completed any 1.3s. I'll ask him next time I see him (he's a Wellington MAC member just as I am, but doesn't always attend meetings)

ChrisM
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Old 04-16-2013, 07:41 PM
  #166
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Default RE: Club Mills!

The latest offering from CS.

The new Navo 0.375 ccm diesel engine.
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Old 04-16-2013, 08:10 PM
  #167
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Default RE: Club Mills!

How does it run-and where did you source it from, fiery?

ChrisM
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PS I ask because my Clan .24 and .48 were both big disappointments (and hail from the same source).....but my Mk1 Boddo Mills (which the Navo is styled on...) was a joy............
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Old 04-16-2013, 09:56 PM
  #168
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Hi Chris.

A few days ago I received an email from Peng Han (Hans) at CS. Hans advised this engine was the latest CS 'Navo' offering. I have not purchased the engine.

Images posted above were copied from those forwarded with Hans' email.

I like the tinplate 'tobacco tin' box with the Navo logo. If the engines are supplied with that box (and the engine is decently executed) I may yet weaken.

Cheers

Derek
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Old 04-16-2013, 10:49 PM
  #169
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Default RE: Club Mills!

I am very happy with my two VA Mills 0.4s-but the supply of those has long since dried up, the K&B Infant based 'Imp' diesel seems to be going nowhere, AE .1s and .2s are gone-as have the .25 ED Baby and Frog 50 0.25cc and the Schlossers ditto-the market could still use a pleasant handling sub .5cc diesel......if this Naro handles OK (and it looks like the bigger 0.75cc red head mentioned on the Barton forum) then it might get a bit of market penetration......not as if there's any market competition at present ....

ChrisM
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PS I wonder if MP Jet could be persuaded to shrink the Classic 0.6 to 0.3cc............now THAT would be a winner..............!
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Old 04-17-2013, 12:36 AM
  #170
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Default RE: Club Mills!


Quote:
ORIGINAL: ffkiwi

I ask because my Clan .24 and .48 were both big disappointments (and hail from the same source).....but my Mk1 Boddo Mills (which the Navo is styled on...) was a joy............
Chris, I think your "PS", sums up the situation pretty well... It's a lottery! Manufacturing non-quality and a corresponding lack of quality control are giving total inconsistency, i.e. a few engines run well... most don't, and there's a sort of generally prevailing optimism (unjustified in my view) that maybe the next one will be good!
In fact, not only arethese exotic "name riders" not nearly as good as the originals, they're not as good as the corresponding size of current PAW either and, in many cases, they are not even up to the minimum standard to give a decently running engine.
At best, they generate buzz while the bubble lasts... A subject for forum discussion, when we'd be better occupied playing with proper engines, which is where I'm going right now!
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Old 04-17-2013, 05:39 PM
  #171
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Default RE: Club Mills!

CS have shown they can get it right. The RedFin is apparently made by CS and has good reports from users.

That said there are all too many examples of CS diesels where the product was not up to scratch.

It is to be hoped this latest offering is of merchantable standard.

I will pass. I have a couple of nice micro-diesels already so have no need of it. That said, if the price point is good, it is far better to lose one of these (replaceable) CS engines than a pb, Schlosser, VA or similar.
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Old 04-17-2013, 05:52 PM
  #172
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That's exactly what I was suggesting-assuming the thing turns out OK (and even CS must get better over the years as they manufacture-ASP/SC certainly did) I'd rather lose something replaceable than irreplaceable....and the VAs, Schlossers, AH's, John's and DC Bambis are all in that category.....
I tragically lost my VA Bambi in the Pomilio (which has featured here in the past) a couple of months back when the roof box on the car blew open as I emerged from the Terrace Tunnel in Wellington and was hit by a severe sideways wind gust. You can't stop on an 8-lane motorway in the middle of traffic and retrieve items blowing all over the place...........

ChrisM
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Old 04-17-2013, 06:00 PM
  #173
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Default RE: Club Mills!

I can feel your pain Chris.

Went through the Mount Victoria Tunnel last week, not really designed for large cars. Enjoyed a hot chocolate in a cafe bearing my surname in a large complex in Hutt City as well.

No model diesels found by me on the motorway north though
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Old 04-17-2013, 06:04 PM
  #174
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Quite sad to lose them that way at least at the field after a"hard landing" you may be able to do rebuild was not a good day martin
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Old 04-17-2013, 06:36 PM
  #175
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: fiery

I can feel your pain Chris.

Went through the Mount Victoria Tunnel last week, not really designed for large cars. Enjoyed a hot chocolate in a cafe bearing my surname in a large complex in Hutt City as well.

No model diesels found by me on the motorway north though

Why the hell didn't you tell me you were in town-we could have got together! I shop down in Hutt City quite a lot

Yes-I was bl...dy annoyed-all I heard was a bang (which turned out to be 2 of the 3 hinges letting go) and then seeing in the rear mirror a plastic box bounce onto the carriage way and shatter-and the contents blow everywhere. Then I had to find a place to stop-about 500m further on, walk back-try and see what was recoverable-it was about 2pm on a saturday-not rush hour but still busy! Managed to get across to the centre meridian and recover some unbroken bits (the box was mainly tailplanes from vintage and nostalgia)-but also, as it turned out held the Pomilio fuselage. Fortunately the wind was blowing from the east-so most of the items blew onto the verge and gutter on my side (northbound) of the motorway.It was only when I got home (after having to rip the lid off the box-it wasn't going to survive on one hinge and no latch-so much for expensive commercial moulded plastic roof boxes!) and worked out what was missing, that I realised the Pomilio fiselage was missing.....

.....then followed about a 3 week period of self flagellation-all the 'if only......' totally justified because this was Nats models that I hadn't bothered to unload on returning to Wellington, and they'd been travelling around (unnecessarily) in the roof box for over a month..............

ChrisM
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