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  1. #1

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    C S Oliver Tiger 2.5 cc

    I just purchased a CS copy of the 2.5 cc Oliver Tiger from a dealer in England. I think that I paid way too much for it, but I am stuck and would like some help. This one was listed as a "1990's" model. I need to know if I need to take it apart and have it cleaned, as these are supposed to be full of shavings, etc. If, so,what is the bestway toclean it? What solvent do I use?
    Second, what is the bore on the shaft that actually goes through the prop? It seems large, and there don't seem to be many stock props to fit it.
    Third, and final for the moment, I ran diesels some 40 years ago, in the 1960's. I had a DA Drabant, a PAW, and I think that was all. Never had an Oliver, though I much wanted one. I am told that finding diesel fuel for these is difficult,and making my own, which I used to do, is hard because it is hard to get Ether. I ran 1/3 Ether, 1/3 castor oil, and 1/3 kerosene, all easily available at the time. What do I do now?

  2. #2

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    RE: C S Oliver Tiger 2.5 cc

    chuck 100charles Model techniques makes and sells diesel fuel there, they have 3 formulas depending on engine type and use, some of the CS copies had quality control issues, you did this before I would consider getting a PAW , MVVS, or a glow that you can get a Davis Diesel head for, this makes life much easier so you can enjoy and use your diesels. the Tiapans from "down under" are a great choice also martin

  3. #3
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    RE: C S Oliver Tiger 2.5 cc

    Model diesel fuel is easy enough to get. Tower Hobbies sells the Davis Diesel Development fuel  in quart cans and it can be shipped to you like that without having to pay the extra hazardous chemical fees. http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...fu%3C%2Fb%3Eel
    Davis Diesel Development also sells the gallon cans, but there are additional fees to buying and shipping it like that.
    I think Eric Clutton still sells model diesel fuel too. http://www.cafes.net/doctordiesel/

    One can certainly make their own fuel, but I would suggest using some store bought fuel at first so that you have a known good reference point. Then once you have running diesel engines, you can experiment with your own fuels.

    Club Saito #722, Sig Kadet Brotherhood #80, GlowHead Brotherhood #14,
    AMA # 928076

  4. #4

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    RE: C S Oliver Tiger 2.5 cc

    I would strongly recommend taking any CS engine completely apart for a good clean prior to its even being turned over. You can also use the opportunity to remove any machining burrs and flashing - there's usually some of that to be seen. Dismatling is best done in a tray or wide dish which will catch any small parts which you may drop during the dismantling process.

    While you have it apart, you should stress-relieve the shaft. This is very simple - you place the cleaned shaft in a cold domestic oven which you then heat up to 550 degrees F. Leave it there for 2 hours and then switch the oven off and allow it to cool slowly over the next few hours. After it's cooled to the point where you can handle the shaft, it's done. The shaft will have a blue tint to it after this treatment, but it will be far tougher since the steel will have had internal stresses relieved and the material will be normalized. The CS engines have a tendency to break shafts if this is not done, since the material is over-hardened and is not stress-relieved. By contrast, I have yet to break a CS shaft which was heat-treated in the above manner.

    A point to note when taking the shaft out - many of the engines have thin shims behind the front ball race to set the correct end-float in the shaft. Do not lose these when dismantling the engine, and make sure that you re-fit them when re-assembling! You should also ensure that the circlips which retain the wrist pin are in place. (no need to disturb the pin itself) If not, the pin can score the bore. When dismantling, it's always a good idea to mark the cylinder lightly with a Dremel tool so that it can be reassembled in the same position. It's also wise to mark the piston as well for the same reason.

    You'll have to drill out the hub of a stock prop to fit the Ollie prop mounting system. Make sure that you re-balance the prop afterwards!

    If you do this, you'll end up with a fine-running easy-starting engine that should give good service. I have two of them in models, both of which have served me well. However, be careful of those dealers - they tend to over-charge people for engines like these! If well set up, this is a good $100 engine, although it takes some effort by the owner to get it to that point.

  5. #5

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    RE: C S Oliver Tiger 2.5 cc

    Chuck sorry for the mis-information on the fuel thought you were in the UK / yes here its davis fuel, tower or direct from Davis- Diesel Die Hard gave you some good info the getting engine up to snuff martin


  6. #6

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    RE: C S Oliver Tiger 2.5 cc

    I bought a CS Oliver, used, from a knowledgeable friend, who told me it was a good engine. I flew it a good bit and was happy with it. Its performance matched an Aeromodeller engine review I have. I bought another, NIB, and never ran it. I put both on eBay and made a little on the deal. I got about $20 more for the used engine than for the NIB.

  7. #7

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    RE: C S Oliver Tiger 2.5 cc

    Yes, a good used one from a knowledgeable source is probably worth more than a new one because you have some assurance that it's been sorted!

  8. #8

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    RE: C S Oliver Tiger 2.5 cc

    YUP some else already has sorted it out martin

  9. #9

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    RE: C S Oliver Tiger 2.5 cc

    Chuck,
    I bought a CS Oliver replica some years ago. I had to repair the needle because it stuck too far out of the engine in the running position. I solved that by shortening the needle. It also has a somewhat wet nose (leaks out the front bearing), but it runs very well.

    Here are a couple of pics with a real Mk-3 and a CS replica. The one with the prop is the CS.

    George
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  10. #10

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    RE: C S Oliver Tiger 2.5 cc

    My CS Tiger is fine.
    I've had it and used it for 12 years in CL models, so it's got some time up. The only thing I replaced about two years ago was the conrod. The motor got a little clunky on turnover that was in the rod. A friend supplied one and now it's fine. It has good compression and is a one flick starter.
    As suggested I would strip it, de-burr it inside, and do the crank as suggested in the oven.
    In the past I have run mine on Oliver fuel.......50% Kero, 30% Ether, 20% Castor with 2% IPN added. They run hard on a 7X7 prop. on this mix. Recently have just been using 1/3 of each fuel plus 2% IPN on a 8 or 9X6 prop.

  11. #11

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    RE: C S Oliver Tiger 2.5 cc

    I own two of these as well. The first was a real "kit of parts" but it went off to a local Team Race engine tuner (Andy K) straight away. He chromed the liner and fitted his own piston. He also replaced the rod with a rectangular section replacement with 2024 alloy rather than the standard CS cheezy material. He set the timing and replaced the cylinder fin assembly with one that could be shrunk on..

    It went well but the crank broke after a few races. This happened often with the CS. I don't believe it was a heat treatment problem. The crank metal just wasn't up to the job. It was replaced with one made by Steve Rothwell out of nitrated heat treated steel. I also replaced the races and fitted a Cox 09 venturi/NVA.

    The engine now performs very well, however the only original bits are the crankcase the backplate and the compression screw.

    A few years ago Steve Rothwell did a run of CS Tigers with his crankshaft, and a complete modified R250 top end. In tests they came within 500 rpm or so of an R250. He doesn't have any more cranks left and isn't making any more.

    Within my club people are modifying the newer versions of the CS. The metallurgy seems to be much better than it was.

    What they do is basically this:

    Pull it apart completely and clean it. Replace any obviously faulty parts and debur the rest especially within the cylinder. Replace the races with good quality C3 races. Lighten the piston. Reassemble the motor and check the exhaust timing. Modify it to open for 140 degrees. This usually means skimming the crankcase cylinder liner face on a mandrel on a lathe. After this is right do the shaft timing to Oliver Tiger "mod" numbers. The exhaust open duration is important because it's usually all over the place on CS engines. This possibly explains why some run poorly yet occasionally one runs really well.

    The new rods seem ok, but the crucial mod seems to be to fit a hardened steel disk on the backplate front face held in place with a central rivet and JB Weld. The backplate/rod clearance is then reduced to a minimum. This really works well since it seems to hold the rod big end onto the crankpin. As far as I know no engine with this mod has yet broken a rod or a crankpin.

    The picture below shows a similar hardened steel disk (off an auto brake system) mounted on the backplate of a Rothwell R150, a modern copy of an Oliver Tiger Cub 1.5cc diesel. Notice the excellent finish.

    After all this the CS engines seem to really perform in c/l combat models on a Taipan 8 x 4.

    If you're not into fiddling with engines though it's a lot of trouble to go to for a runner. A genuine Oliver isn't all that more expensive if you're paying someone to do the work on your CS.

    Another option is the Rustler range of OT replica's. They're very good, much better than any CS.

    Ray


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  12. #12

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    RE: C S Oliver Tiger 2.5 cc

    Here is Rustlers list of engines and it's quite impressive!
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  13. #13

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    RE: C S Oliver Tiger 2.5 cc

    I emailed Mr Russell a few weeks ago. He was very easy to deal with.

    I am on the list for an OT Replica, and a lynx, a batch of which will be commissioned in the near future.

  14. #14

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    RE: C S Oliver Tiger 2.5 cc


    ORIGINAL: fiery

    I emailed Mr Russell a few weeks ago. He was very easy to deal with.

    I am on the list for an OT Replica, and a lynx, a batch of which will be commissioned in the near future.
    He also offers an R/C throttle for his Oliver range which will fit the Genuine OT, and the R250. Generally Rustler OT bits will fit the genuine article and visa versa.

    Ray

  15. #15

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    RE: C S Oliver Tiger 2.5 cc

    Anyone care to share IanRussell's current emal address with us? I have several of his Ollie Mk. III replicas, and they are indeed truly excellent engines - way better than the CS ones. I also have one of his half-size E.D. Baby models - what a little gem!!

    The above thread more or less confirms that unless you're a competent"in-house engine guy", the CS engines are probably best left alone - there are better engines available for little more cash and far less hassle!!

  16. #16

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    RE: C S Oliver Tiger 2.5 cc


    ORIGINAL: Diesel Die-hard

    Anyone care to share IanΒ*Russell's current emal address with us?Β* I have several of his Ollie Mk. III replicas, and they are indeed truly excellent engines - way better than the CS ones.Β* I also have one of his half-size E.D. Baby models - what a little gem!!

    The above thread more or less confirms that unless you're a competentΒ*"in-house engine guy", the CS engines are probably best left alone - there are better engines available for little more cash and far less hassle!!
    rustler@aero.fslife.co.uk

  17. #17

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    RE: C S Oliver Tiger 2.5 cc

    Hi, 
    i am new to all this stuff because of being at a much younger age. i received a bag full of Remote control things from my grandpa and in it was an Oliver Tiger 2.5cc diesel, i believe that it is an original. as he would have had it from the 60's. now my main concern is that because i live in Australia it is very hard for me to get ether. my grandpa has the knowledge which i have been using to my advantage. but i was wondering what is the best way to get ether?

    [img]C:\Users\44651\Desktop\DSC_0001.JPG[/img][img]C:\Users\44651\Desktop\DSC_0001.JPG[/img]
    [img]C:\Users\44651\Desktop[/img]

  18. #18

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    RE: C S Oliver Tiger 2.5 cc

    our best bet would be John Deere starting fluid from a tractor supply outlet almost pure ether , the stuff in the auto parts store is low or none will not work also ignition improver 1 to 2% Amsoil the best ethyl Oct/ hex. nitrate, castor and kerosene easy to come by martin sure some of the chaps can give you the %s mix for that engine martin

    welcome to diesel land you have a fine engine learn and enjoy

  19. #19

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    RE: C S Oliver Tiger 2.5 cc


    ORIGINAL: quizzwizz

    Hi,
    i am new to all this stuff because of being at a much younger age. ireceiveda bag full of Remote control things from my grandpa and in it was an Oliver Tiger 2.5cc diesel, i believe that it is an original. as he would have had it from the 60's. now my mainconcernis that because i live inAustralia it is very hard for me to get ether. my grandpa has the knowledgewhich i have been using to myadvantage. but i was wondering what is the best way to get ether?
    [img]C:\Users\44651\Desktop\DSC_0001.JPG[/img][img]C:\Users\44651\Desktop\DSC_0001.JPG[/img]
    [img]C:\Users\44651\Desktop[/img]
    You need to hook up with the controline guys at Ipswich..........they will give you all the clues on fuels and where to get the makings.


  20. #20

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    RE: C S Oliver Tiger 2.5 cc

    Make contact with a local model club and then take from there. Ether is no longer generally available to members of the public in the USA, New Zealand and Australia, due to its increasing use by illicit drug manufacturers. Your local chemist shop certainly won't sell you a litre of it, the way they would in years gone by (they'd be breaking the law if they did). Some clubs and modelling suppliers have been able to obtain a licence to purchase ether in bulk, and they will supply people known to them whose bona fides they can be sure of.

    You have three options:

    (i) track down a supplier-but be prepared to pay a lot in freight, as it will either have to come by dangerous goods or chemical supply courier.

    (ii) get on the net and source ready made diesel fuel from an Australian fuel supplier-'Airborne' magazine should help, as the likely suppliers will almost certainly advertise in it. Once again, be prepared for high freight charges.

    (iii) brew your own fuel-'Oliver mix' is nominally 50% kerosene, 20% castor oil and 30% ether by volume, with an additional 2-3% (again nominal) of ignition improver-amyl nitrate, amyl nitrite, isopropyl nitrate and the proprietary 'DII' which is a mixture of nitrates. You are almost certain to have even more difficulty obtaining ignition improver than ether!

    For ether you can use commercial 'cold weather engine start' products which come in a pressurised spray can. A proportion of the contents is ether-(nearly all of it in some brands). The preferred brand (at least in North America where most members of this forum live) is John Deere-which has a high ether content of about 80% or more. Other brands may be a LOT lower-be very careful of what you're buying if you take this route-and if the can doesn't list the % ether-don't buy it! I have found (during peacekeeping service in Bougainville) Australian branded engine start with ether content as low as 25%-which is useless for our purposes.

    You then have to extract the contents-which can be done (you MUST cool the can in the freezer first) by spraying into a suitable cold glass container or bottle (to minimise evaporative losses and splash), and let any residual propellant gas escape, then cap the container and use this as your ether source. Note that it will not be pure-so you need to keep in mind the quoted % ether on the can then factor this into your fuel formulation by simple proportion. The other components will be hydrocarbons (and possibly a bit of upper cylinder lubricant) so these will displace a portion of the kerosene component you would otherwise mix your fuel with.

    Do NOT store either ether or mixed diesel fuel in plastic bottles-glass or metal containers are mandated. If glass -then dark glass (brown or green) is preferable to clear. Also ensure the cap has a good seal and has a sealing insert (sometimes plastic, sometimes foil coated card, sometimes cork) on the inside. Ether is highly volatile, highly flammable and will find its way out of all but the most tightly sealed containers.

    ChrisM
    'ffkiwi'

  21. #21

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    RE: C S Oliver Tiger 2.5 cc

    ORIGINAL: quizzwizz

    Hi,Β*
    i am new to all this stuff because of being at a much younger age. iΒ*receivedΒ*a bag full of Remote control things from my grandpa and in it was an Oliver Tiger 2.5cc diesel, i believe that it is an original. as he would have had it from the 60's. now my mainΒ*concernΒ*is that because i live inΒ*Australia it is very hard for me to get ether. my grandpa has the knowledgeΒ*which i have been using to myΒ*advantage. but i was wondering what is the best way to get ether?

    [img][/img][img][/img]
    [img][/img]
    Actually Ether isn't terribly hard to get in Australia, it's really just a matter of asking the right questions. There is a hobby shop source in southern Queensland and I guess that a local will soon post the info.

    Otherwise I will. Gossie's advice is sound, search out your local c/l clubs.

    Can you post a pic of your Olly?

    Ray

  22. #22

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    RE: C S Oliver Tiger 2.5 cc

    Chris I am surprised that David Owen has not added premix fuel to his line martin

  23. #23

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    RE: C S Oliver Tiger 2.5 cc

    Hi Quizzwizz, you can buy ether from Solchem Pacific in Chetwynd St, Loganholme.

    Steve

  24. #24

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    RE: C S Oliver Tiger 2.5 cc


    ORIGINAL: AMB

    Chris I am surprised that David Owen has not added premix fuel to his line martin
    David used to make up fuel (glow and diesel) for supply to various hobby places, but that was a long time ago. These days I doubt it's worth the trouble sourcing all the chemicals in bulk, and shipping the fuel round the place. Plus, I would guess that most people running diesels here in Australia like to mix their own fuel anyway.

  25. #25

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    RE: C S Oliver Tiger 2.5 cc


    ORIGINAL: steve111

    Hi Quizzwizz, you can buy ether from Solchem Pacific in Chetwynd St, Loganholme.

    Steve
    Yep that's it!

    See: http://www.rcfuelsupplies.com.au/ind...ewCat&catId=76



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