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  1. #1
    Bill Adair's Avatar
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    Diesel starting fluid

    Hi diesel fans,

    I've been mixing my own diesel fuel using John Deere starting fluid, and have had great results. I don't use a Cetane booster, just Castor, Ether, and Kerosene. The John Deere product is expensive, and about a thirty mile drive for me.

    Today, I was in a local Portland OR discount store (Bi-Mart) and found they have about a case of PYROIL diesel starting fluid on the shelf, for $2.50 each out the door (11oz cans).

    Has anyone tried this stuff (or any other starting fluid with upper cylinder lubricant) in their home mixed diesel fuel?

    They don't identify the lubricant, or mention how much is in this stuff, but I can't imagine any petroleum oil causing problems in my diesel engines.

    Comments welcome.

    Bill
    BadAir

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    RE: Diesel starting fluid

    Bill I doubt that the $2.50 stuff will cause any harm but they are low on ether John Deere is at least 90% ether the rest being propellant and lube thus
    its a 7 oz can 90% of 7 oz is 6.3 oz of ether at$5.00 a can not terrible at25% ether content a qt needed about 3 1/2 cans so about $17.00 plus kero plus castor
    At 14.95 a qt Davis cost less than making your own. martin

    25% is a bit low too you usually use at least 30%

    I get a mechanics discount and still $4.35 a can for Deere I have mixed my own when out of the Davis stuff to hold me till I got more of his

    Note the premium pyroil premium starter fluid is 50% ether the regular less

    Saw your post on the 06 PAW they sip so little fuel a qt of Davis 1/2A will last a long time and a no mix hassel

  3. #3
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    RE: Diesel starting fluid

    You want to check the MSDS sheets for the particular brand of starter fluid you are interested in. They mostly contain varyong small percentages of ether in them with the rest being other not quite so volatile substances. Some brands have no ether or as little as 5%. So if you can determine the ether percentage you can adjust your fuel formula to compensate. But usually the success is limited as it is hard to get the fuel formula to come out OK.

    Club Saito #722, Sig Kadet Brotherhood #80, GlowHead Brotherhood #14,
    AMA # 928076

  4. #4

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    RE: Diesel starting fluid

    Mostly the hydrocarbon non-ether part can be calculated as kerosene. It should work.
    Pe, (www.mvvs.nl), MVVS, MOKImotor, RCexl, MTW, Xoar, Mejzlik.
    Blessing in ignorance? There is sanctuary in analysis.

  5. #5

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    RE: Diesel starting fluid

    Hi Gang:

    I am having a difficult time justifying the cost of flying diesel powered airplanes.

    I priced Davis fuel oand it was $14.95 per quart. The real kicker was that there was a $25.00 shipping charge added to the cost of the fuel. This brings the cost to $85.00 per gallon shipped to my house. Is my math correct? Someone pointed out that it costs $14.00 per quart to mix Diesel fuel at home. Is this accurate.

    Glow fuel is $15.00 perr gallon delivered to our club!

    Gone are the days when I could buy ether let alone get it for FREE!

    I enjoy Diesel engines but I must excerise a bit of common sense!

    Stay well,

    Franchi


  6. #6
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    RE: Diesel starting fluid

    For quart size containers you don't pay the Hazardous Item additional Fee. So it is like shipping anything else.
    Now if you bought a gallon container you have to pay the additional hazard fee too.
    Thus you can buy 4 quarts and only pay regular shipping and no hazard fee.

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    AMA # 928076

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    RE: Diesel starting fluid

    Yu can get it from tower also thin, about 10.00 shipping or as pointed out get 4 gets from davis should be same shipping fee martin

  8. #8
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    RE: Diesel starting fluid

    Also, I think the quart containers are pretty nice. You only have to open one container and use it before going to another quart container. So you tend to lose less ether that way. But with a gallon you tend to lose more ether as every time you open it, some of the ether escapes.

    Club Saito #722, Sig Kadet Brotherhood #80, GlowHead Brotherhood #14,
    AMA # 928076

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    RE: Diesel starting fluid

    EarlWB In total agreement with that one the " new round qts Davis ,with the dome tops" easy to handle too beats the old rectangle shape too martin

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    RE: Diesel starting fluid

    Hi Again:

    I looked up Davis prices for fuel divered to my home and this is what I found.

    Fuel $14.95 per qt.

    Shipping $10.00

    Fuel shipping charge $6.00

    Total $75.80 per gallon

    Tower Hobbies

    Fuel $12.49 per quart

    Shipping $12.50

    Handling charge $12.50

    Total $74.86 per gallon

    Is my math inaccurate? This seems to be very costly for fuel!

    Franchi




  11. #11

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    RE: Diesel starting fluid

    At that cost, buying kerosene, castor oil and then decanting John Deere starter fluid for ether starts to look attractive.

    If you can, find some vintage C/L team race or combat flyers in your area. They will put you on to a source for ether.

  12. #12

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    RE: Diesel starting fluid

    ORIGINAL: franchi

    Hi Again:

    I looked up Davis prices for fuel divered to my home and this is what I found.

    Fuel $14.95 per qt.

    Shipping $10.00

    Fuel shipping charge $6.00

    Total $75.80 per gallon

    Tower Hobbies

    Fuel $12.49 per quart

    Shipping $12.50

    Handling charge $12.50

    Total $74.86 per gallon

    Is my math inaccurate? This seems to be very costly for fuel!

    Franchi
    Franchi

    Something appears to be wrong with your math. I just went on Tower's web site and tried to order 1 quart of Davis fuel. The cost was $12.45 for the fule + $9.95 shipping. Total was $22.40. That's it! I assume that like Earl and Martin said: if you buy 4 quarts you will pay less than $25 shipping. On top: if you buy $150 worth - they wave the shipping. For $150 you will get approx. 10 quarts which is 2 1/2 gallons.
    Just my 2c

    Joshua



  13. #13
    Bill Adair's Avatar
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    RE: Diesel starting fluid

    Thanks for all the great info guys.

    I used most of my last can of John Deere starting fluid, to mix a small batch of the equal parts diesel fuel. By the way, the can says JD is 80% Ether, and that isn't bad. Have to make another run to the JD tractor store to buy more. I'll report on the current price, after I get over any sticker shock.

    Ran my PAW 55 five or six long runs up to temp, and then let it cool down completely before restarting. It smoothed out beautifully, and compression is excellent now. There is no bleed down when pulled against compression, for as long as I had the patience to hold it there. Still has the tight pinch at the top of the stroke, so it's looking pretty good. I'll use the rest of that can, and then try some of my Aerodyne fuel, with Castor added to bring the total lube up to 25%.

    Think I'll do an evaporation test on the other can of starting fluid, to see how much Ether is in that stuff. The propellent and Ether should evaporate before any of the lube is lost, to give me some idea of the Ether content.

    Bill
    BadAir

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    RE: Diesel starting fluid

    Hi Jason et. al.:

    When I called Tower Hobbies, I was told by a chap that the fuel had a $12.50 shipping charge and a $12.50 handling charge.

    Even if would I purchase 2.5 gallons of fuel for $150.00, it still costs me $60.00 per gallon! At this price, playing with model Diesel engines may be a hobby reserved for only the 1%ers! Lol

    Stay well,

    Franchi

  15. #15
    Bill Adair's Avatar
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    RE: Diesel starting fluid

    Everything has gone up in price, and diesel fuel is certainly no exception.

    I never thought I'd be paying over $4 a gal for regular gasoline, or $40 for a NOS Cox .049 Babe Bee engine, but that's the reality.

    Bill
    BadAir

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    RE: Diesel starting fluid

    Bill K-1 kerosene at Ace hardware $10 a gallon martin

  17. #17
    Bill Adair's Avatar
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    RE: Diesel starting fluid

    Hi Martin,

    Thanks for the Kero tip!

    ACE Kerosene is what I used in all of my recent batches of diesel fuel, and it appears to be good quality Kero.

    Another friend has a 5 gal can of high quality Kero, and the can has yet to be opened. We now have enough Kerosene collectively, to last us for decades at the rate we use it.

    Still trying to find a good source for Ether, but it seems to have dropped off the face of the Earth, thanks to our drug using friends.

    Bill

    BadAir

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    RE: Diesel starting fluid

    Bill looks like John Deere is the only one out there. If you are a manufacturer engaged in making products say in the drug or chemical field, you can buy pts of ether CP grade the price is out of sight somehow about $75 for 500cc (a pt) rings a bell and that was a year or two ago martin

  19. #19
    Bill Adair's Avatar
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    RE: Diesel starting fluid

    Martin,

    Yes, a pity that law abiding citizens are punished for the crimes drug users and drug makers commit, but that's the way our judicial system works.

    John Deere starting fluid is now $3.89 a can here, so mixing fuel is still a bargain, compared to some of the commercial sources (when shipping is figured in). I estimate that Ether cost is $72/gal from JD, and likely to go up again.

    I'm going to find some Cetane booster (hopefully in a reasonable size), to get a more accurate cost of ingredients.

    Bill
    BadAir

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    RE: Diesel starting fluid

    Bill cetane booster, best bet is Amsoil either octyl or ethyl hexanitrate WARNING guys petroleum ether is not diethyl ether an other name for benzine

    Since I have my Davis ABC and 1/2A fuels do not have to mess making it martin

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    RE: Diesel starting fluid

    I have remnants of DD gallon that has been
    decanted and un decanted many times and
    stored in South Texas heat for three years.
    Last week I filled the tank of my Schoolboy
    and started the PAW .55 on the third flip.
    Ralph

  22. #22
    Bill Adair's Avatar
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    RE: Diesel starting fluid

    Martin,

    I found Amsoil Cetane booster on line, but the smallest container I can get is 16 oz.

    Now I'm having second thoughts about buying that much, as I doubt I'd use more than a few ounces in this life time!

    Perhaps my grandson, or great grandson will take a liking to diesels.

    Bill
    BadAir

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    RE: Diesel starting fluid

    Invest in a bottle Bill.

    My opinion.:the cost is not that great. I doubt it will ever get any cheaper. It does help achieve a smooth run.


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    RE: Diesel starting fluid


    Yes it gives a nice run and the smell of the Amsoil I find good , I use 7cc 's in 500 ml of fuel , mixed up fresh about every 2 weeks,,,,, does the 1.5cc engines quite well

    Radial port of course

  25. #25
    Bill Adair's Avatar
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    RE: Diesel starting fluid

    OK, guess I'll spring for a bottle of Cetane booster.

    123cat,

    Is that 1.4% Cetane booster you are using? Have you tried higher percentages?

    Bill
    BadAir


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