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Club ED

Old 06-02-2013, 05:03 AM
  #51  
JKinTX
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Default RE: Club ED

Ah ED's! Lets see, in engine drawers as of today:

2 Racers

2 Hunters

1 Competetion Special 2cc

1 Mk III 2.5cc

1 Mk 5 Hunter

2Mk 2 Bee

1 Sea Otter

1 Miles 5cc (boat)

1 Cadet (boat)

1 Racer marine (boat again)

Can I join the club?

John in Texas



Old 08-06-2013, 07:10 PM
  #52  
fiery
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The Hornet buzzing nicely

ED Hornet 1.46 cc Diesel - YouTube
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Old 08-12-2013, 11:18 PM
  #53  
fiery
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ED 346 Marine diesels are still being made

http://westonuk.co.uk/westonuk2_054.htm
Old 08-13-2013, 04:50 AM
  #54  
Hobbsy
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How about a little Club ED fun and some Club Member Numbers.

1==Fiery
2==Mike109
3==123Cat
4==Controlliner
5==Jim Thomerson
6==ffkiwi
7=recycledflyer
8==WarrenB
9==Gossie
10=Avalonnovi
11=GerrynDennis
12=BKfamily1
13=BalsaWorks
14=GCB
15=JHiner
16=FNQflyer
17=BrokenEnglish
18=DanVincent
19=JKinTX

Now all you need do is elect a secretary.
Old 09-09-2013, 11:47 PM
  #55  
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Gentlemen,
This seems the appropriate place to share my joy at the arrival of my fifteenth ED Bee (perhaps I need treatment...).
I saw this one, offered by a general "second hand dealer", on eBay France.
Looking at the ad, it seemed to me that the engine and box looked absolutely new. This is the eBay listing:

http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...84.m1497.l2649

Anyway, I couldn't resist it. The engine arrived yesterday and, Yippee! I was right! The whole thing is absolutely new (and 60 y.o. almost to the day) and I'm sure it really has "never seen fuel". The box staples aren't even rusty. It's obviously been stored in perfect conditions for the last 60 years.
Sometime during the next few days, I shall remove the tank and run it gently for a few minutes on a separate tank (preserve the tank's virginity!).

One thing that particularly pleases me is that this engine has taught me something already (about the serial numbering). As many of you will know, at the transition 1949-50, the year digit, at the end of the S/N, became two digits, i.e. "/9" was replaced by "/50". Studying ED serial numbering over the last few decades, I've always considered that ED reverted to a single year digit in 1954 (i.e. at the year change, "/53" was replaced by "/4").
This new Bee tells me that it must have been a bit earlier than that, as this engine was made in September 1953, and the S/N ends with just "/3" (the first one I've seen in all these years).
Another useless bit of information that may make you smile is that, while inspecting this engine, I realised that I have enough early ED engine boxes to be able to compare the handwriting of the inspectors who wrote the S/N on the outside of the box. I don't know their names of course, but I'm able to see that certain engines were boxed by the same person!

Last edited by brokenenglish; 09-09-2013 at 11:51 PM.
Old 09-10-2013, 01:45 AM
  #56  
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Default E.D Bee Mk. 1

Very nice find Brian.

I have taken the liberty of uploading the photo's from the listing before they disappear.
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Old 09-10-2013, 02:53 AM
  #57  
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I bought my first ED Bee from Polk's Hobbies in New York City and it seemed to run forever on a tank of fuel, compared to a glo engine. I was so impressed i bought another but can't remember ever having to use it.

Everyone should have an ED Bee or Mills at least once in their life.
Old 09-10-2013, 10:25 AM
  #58  
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Hi all, heres a racer I picked up a yard sale last year. It runs a treat, very easy to start. I think the crankcase is magnesium on this model.

Andrew
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Old 09-10-2013, 12:06 PM
  #59  
brokenenglish
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Very nice engine. This model is generally known as the Mk II Racer (irrespective of ED's own terminology!). If you look on the "What planes are your diesels in" thread, you'll see that I have one flying in a Junior 60 right now.
Andrew, you shouldn't be calling Yorkshire "PAW land", you'll start a civil war!
Old 10-07-2013, 07:24 PM
  #60  
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Never would I have thought I would find this thread.
I have an ED diesel, with 246 on the case.
I got it as part of an estate purchase.
Never ran a diesel, and have never seen one run. I've been in CL and RC for 46 years now, so I guess I've been sheltered.
The engine is fully locked up, and a heat gun, penetrating oil, etc, do nothing to free it. I pulled the backplate and cylinder head, and no joy in getting movement.
I've dumped the majority of the engine into carb cleaner, hoping to dissolve some of the castor, but I doubt that will work. Next option will be to gently heat in an oven I think at some low temp to be determined (could use some help here).
When I pulled the backplate, I swear a small disk of paper that exactly fits the backplate hole to the needle valve fell out. Am I correct that this is part of the engine and if so, where does it go? I was able to free up the rear valve ... interesting design. Also, the crankcase seems like it is covered in corrosion - I assume that this means it is a magnesium crankcase?
Finally, as this post demonstrates, I am a diesel idiot. Give me any glow, gas or electric motor and I can make it go, but I know nothing of these engines. Is there a tutorial anywhere?
Thanks in advance.
Old 10-07-2013, 08:16 PM
  #61  
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Reading this is a good start. While from the current owner of Cox Engines the recommendations apply to all model diesel engines.

http://coxengines.ca/files/DEG.pdf
Old 10-07-2013, 10:09 PM
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Can I join?! I have an ED Baby on the way from the land of Oz, which should be here in a couple of days. I've also tried to snag a few Bees off the oh-so-popular auction site, but they always go outside what I want to pay. Perhaps I should raise my limit some, as I really do enjoy the looks of the MkI Bee! Most seem to be located in England, however, and the shipping prices most sellers use are even more than what I paid to ship the Baby to me. Oh well. :-/
Old 10-08-2013, 12:37 AM
  #63  
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Welcome to the new guys!
This thread is a good place for ED lovers, and you'll get all the help and advice you need, from all around the planet!
Many of us have been playing with (and flying) ED engines for decades (64 years for me and I'm still hooked!).
You asked a few questions, so here are a few general answers.
If an old diesel is gummed up (i.e. castor oil residue has solidified over the years), the problem can often be solved by putting a propeller on the engine, and pouring a little fuel into the carburettor and cylinder (or onto the piston), and then try to rock the propeller in both directions, gently but firmly. If you persist for some time, this nearly always works.
If that procedure doesn't free up the engine, then put the engine in an oven at 100°C for 15 minutes. You'll then have to hold the engine with some protection (a rag) and, again, install a propeller and rock it gently backwards and forwards. If these two methods both fail, then you'll have to disassemble the engine, but they've never failed for me.
As you saw, the ED 2.46 Racer has a brown paper gasket under the backplate.

Now, for all diesel lovers, everywhere, the biggest problem nowadays is fuel and, more specifically, how and where to obtain ether.
In the States, by far the best solution would be to contact Doctor Diesel (Eric Clutton) in Tennessee, who sells fuel and will be an eternal source of good advice. The same is probably true of the Davis diesel operation, but be sure you buy general diesel fuel, and not stuff concocted for oddball engines.

I noticed on the Web that there is a guy offering (selling!!!) diesel tutorials. The little that I saw was nonsense (he was starting a team race diesel by waving a stick at it!). You'll get much better advice and help on this thread (and on other similar threads).
Another important point is that old diesels should only be started by hand. Never even consider a starter!
This means that you need propellers that can be flicked comfortably. Modern propellers just aren't made for hand starting, and flick starting using a Master Airscrew CF or similar is very painful, if not dangerous...
So wood or old soft plastic (Topflite or Tornado) propellers are preferable, and there are plenty available on eBay, still new and very inexpensive.

Just to encourage you, have a look at this little video, which could be called "ED engines and first flick starting". In my experience, 90% of all ED engines are as easy as this to operate, if properly set up.
Note that, on the video, I haven't tried to adjust the engine for performance. I just tried to get as many first flick starts as possible, until the fuel ran out...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jooo_YHYkzQ
Old 10-08-2013, 08:29 AM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by brokenenglish
Now, for all diesel lovers, everywhere, the biggest problem nowadays is fuel and, more specifically, how and where to obtain ether.
In the States, by far the best solution would be to contact Doctor Diesel (Eric Clutton) in Tennessee, who sells fuel and will be an eternal source of good advice. The same is probably true of the Davis diesel operation, but be sure you buy general diesel fuel, and not stuff concocted for oddball engines.
Just wanted to add that Ed Carlson in Phoenix, AZ also stocks and sells diesel at a reasonable price. He's local to me, so I just stopped by to pick up my first two quarts of diesel, and he's a great guy to do business with!
Old 10-08-2013, 09:03 AM
  #65  
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OK, I can see that this is going to be another fun area for me to learn about.

"brokenenglish" (you sure write very well, so I'm not sure why this is your handle) - you wrote, "As you saw, the ED 2.46 Racer has a brown paper gasket under the backplate.
" Could you be very specific about where exactly that paper disc sits? This disc I'm talking about looks like it came out of a paper punch, but a little bigger. Does it literally just drop in the hole that goes to the needle? If so ... what keeps it there? Seems like as soon as the engine opens the valve, it would suck the paper into the engine.

I've unstuck a lot of engines and tried the prop thing as part of the routine. Tonight, after I get the engine out of the carb cleaner, still locked up I'm sure, I'll try the oven. you gave me the temperature, which is what I needed. I was just worried about warping the crankcase, The case looks like it has been in seawater for a day ... all this white corrosion was on it, which came off fairly easily with oil. I think it must be a magnesium case.

Thanks for the "no starter" tip. I have over 100 old wood props so I'm sure I have something that will work.

I wonder what to do with it if I get it running ... no throttle, so I guess put it in a vintage RC bird and just run until it shutsdown. Ah ... that is too far in the future ... focus on getting it loose first.
Old 10-08-2013, 11:12 AM
  #66  
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OK, let's try to get your engine in running condition.
I think your eyes probably deceived you when the paper fell off. It certainly shouldn't be a disc. The paper gasket is square, with a round hole in the middle.
Looking in the open rear of the crankcase, you should see the big end, i.e. the bottom of the con-rod, with a crank pin protruding through the big end, just enough to locate in a corresponding hole in the crank disc (on the backplate).
Now, if you look at the backplate, it should have a disc on the inside, with one larger elongated hole (for mixture induction) and one small round hole, into which the big end crank pin fits.
The paper gasket that you'll need to make has to be square, to match the contact surface between the crankcase and backplate, and with a big round hole in it, that allows the paper gasket to fit around the perimeter of the rotary disc and go down onto the backplate mounting contact surface.
If it's your first attempt, don't bother about cutting the gasket square, start with an oversize piece of paper, and just concentrate on cutting a hole for the disc valve exactly the right size (measure accurately and use a compass). You can actually install the backplate with the outer edges of the gasket well oversize (protruding), and trim the gasket down to shape after the engine is assembled.
You'll also have to make four small holes around the gasket, for the backplate/crankcase assembly screws. An easy way is to put the gasket on the backplate and hold it up to the light, with the paper facing you. You'll see the mounting holes, through the paper. Poke a pin roughly through the center of each hole, then open up the hole slightly with a small drill bit (say 1/16"). Having done that, install the backplate and you'll be able to screw the assembly screws through the holes in the gasket.
One final and very important point. When you install the backplate, you have to make sure that the crank pin (protruding from the con-rod) locates in the small round hole in the disc, and NOT in the larger induction port! Be warned, this is a very easy mistake to make. So make sure that the crank pin and the round hole in the disc are accurately aligned before you push the backplate fully in (I usually set both the hole and the big end exactly at BDC). When the backplate is in position, you can check that it's in the correct hole by just slightly rotating the crankshaft while looking into the carburettor tube. The slightest movement of the crankshaft must move the disc, and you must try both directions. If the crank pin is in the wrong (larger) hole, it will be possible to turn the crankshaft through about 15° without moving the disc... which ain't right!
Let us know how you get on...
Old 10-08-2013, 09:29 PM
  #67  
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"Free at last, thank God almighty, free at last!"
Well I guess carb cleaner is better than I thought. I pulled that engine out of the bath, stuck a big prop on it like before, heated with the heat gun like before, and with just a little push she spun. I reinstalled the head and flipped with oil until she ran free. Nice and clear now.
I've made many backplate gaskets, so this one is no problem. However ... this engine had no gasket at all at the backplate. The paper disc I have must have been from some hole punching I was doing earlier, and not associated with this engine.
The reassembly of the backplate should be childs play in comparison to reassembling an RCV 120, which I've field stripped several times (another story).
So ... I guess I need to decide if this engine had a gasket or not, and if so, make one and reassemble. Broken, you are sure this engine has a gasket at the backplate? (if it does not, it would be a first for me). I noticed that the head was on, rotated 120 degrees when I got it, so it is highly likely that the original owner took it apart ... and possibly lost the backplate gasket.
This engine looks really clean. There is no carbon on the piston or cylinder, and the backplate valve shows no wear at the disk to disk interface.

Now ... gotta order some fuel ... and post some pics ... and then figure out what to use an engine that has no throttle in ...
Please add me to Club ED!!!
Old 10-08-2013, 10:55 PM
  #68  
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Sorry LF, you obviously have more experience than I thought! Good!
Concerning the backplate gasket. I'm "fairly sure" that it should have a gasket. Someone may know better and be certain...
I've looked at two Aeromodeller engine tests, and they make no mention of presence or absence of gaskets.
I possess quite a few of these engines, including one new one (1953), and I "think" the new one has a gasket. It's not easy to be sure and removing the backplate to have a look is almost certain to destroy a 60-year old gasket.
My own attitude would be, in case of doubt, install a gasket. It can't possibly prevent the engine from running and it may well be essential.
Old 10-08-2013, 10:56 PM
  #69  
fiery
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"Racers" are really nice. There should be a gasket on the back plate as Brian noted. Easy to make.

How is the compression seal on yours? Photograph as well please.

[An honourable mention: John S. Oliver was a consultant on the development of the RCV SP 2:1 geared inline range].
Old 10-09-2013, 04:31 AM
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Yes, they DO have a gasket, I would drop the motor in a small container of either paraffin or diesel and leave it for a week or two, take it out every couple of days and use a heatgun or an oven, then drop it back in, patience with added patience usually solves problems.
Old 10-09-2013, 09:33 PM
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Guys -
Just so you know where I am on this engine and don't waste your time with me ... the engine is free now and has a lot of pop when turned over. I'm not sure if the "contra-piston" moves because when I turn the adjustment screw on top (ok, what is the correct term for the T handled screw? Gah! I feel like such a newbie!) it does not seem to engage anything nor does the compression seem to change. It is probably still locked up.
I will make and install a gasket. And ... get pics uploaded.
Thanks for the help so far ... once I get my hands on some fuel the fun will really start. Then I'll be back at you again.
Old 10-09-2013, 10:37 PM
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Hi LF.
Before you go any further, I think you should remove the head and check that the compression screw actually screws up and down properly (firmly). The head is a casting and, if a contrapiston is particularly tight or gets excessively gummed up, it can happen that the compression screw strips the threads in the head.
Obviously, if you're turning the screw and nothing is moving, it ain't a good sign.
It would be good to check, although the damage may already be done...
Old 10-09-2013, 11:48 PM
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The Miles Special. 5 cc displacement.

Has anyone run one? How many 'versions' were made? I would be interested to know how friendly they are to operate.
Old 10-10-2013, 12:49 AM
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Default Miles Special

Derek, I don't possess the die-cast ED engine, but I have three of Basil's originals, like this one.
I've been running them for years! One of my favourite engines. Props 10x6 to 12x6, Topflite wood or plastic.
I'm still dreaming of an oversize Junior 60, say around 75" span (I have the plans) but, as always, so many projects and obligations, and so little time...
I was wondering which engine to video next, maybe I'll do this one. As I've mentioned before, a Taplin Twin carb screws straight in. I imagine that would still be true
with an ED engine and an Indian TT.
Old 10-10-2013, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by brokenenglish
Hi LF.
Before you go any further, I think you should remove the head and check that the compression screw actually screws up and down properly (firmly). The head is a casting and, if a contrapiston is particularly tight or gets excessively gummed up, it can happen that the compression screw strips the threads in the head.
Obviously, if you're turning the screw and nothing is moving, it ain't a good sign.
It would be good to check, although the damage may already be done...
No, I have not stripped the head threads ... the compression screw goes in and out fine. It just does not move the contrapiston, which looks to be locked up ... more heat gun work needed.
Pics of my little diesel posting next.

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