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Large PAW diesels?

Old 04-15-2011, 07:39 AM
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RDJeff
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Default Large PAW diesels?

Does anybody here have any experience with the .40 or .60 sized diesels from PAW? I'm thinking of getting one of the R/C versions for use in somewhat larger planes. I'd sure appreciate any input. Thanks!
Old 04-15-2011, 08:21 AM
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Default RE: Large PAW diesels?

I have the .35 plain bearing RC and the .49 TBR twin bearing RC.

The .35 is a good engine but not exactly a powerhouse.

The .49 TBR is a good strong running engine with performance like a .70 to .90 glow four stroke. I have used mine in several aircraft. I am very pleased with it. I use a 12x6 or 13x6 prop and Red Max diesel. (Fuel no longer available but I bought a case several years ago.)
Old 04-15-2011, 09:31 AM
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Default RE: Large PAW diesels?

Jeff, I have two PAW .40 and one PAW .60 diesel. I like the .40 better as both turn up about the same RPM on props from 12/6 to 16/6. Recently I tested both the .40 and .60 with a 16/6 APC prop for a SAM guy wanting RPM with this prop for the Texaco event. Both have close to the same stroke making the .40 a long stroke. Long strokes may be better for swing large props for Texaco. Possibly the .60 needs more run time. Both are robust designs but not as powerful as the MVVS .61 or the Irvine .40 diesels. Jack
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Old 04-15-2011, 09:58 AM
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Default RE: Large PAW diesels?

Who was it that described the PAW .60 diesel as a "Big Friendly Lump?"

-Gary
Old 04-15-2011, 03:01 PM
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Default RE: Large PAW diesels?

have the 40 and put a MVVS carb on it, think this is the max you want to go on PAW. The 60 is a lump and jack I agree the Irvines and MVVS have it all over them, my MVVS 10cc has DAVIS HEAD
DUMPED THE MVVS STOCK DIESEL HEAD martin
Old 04-15-2011, 03:44 PM
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Default RE: Large PAW diesels?

Gary

It was Eric Clutton who said that about the PAW .60. I quoted him (but to my embarassment without reference .. my belated apologies to the man).

I had one, and it served me well in a Cosmo King 40 trainer. However, I just could not get the thrust out of it I hoped for. I ran a three blade graupner 12 x 6 on it for ground clearance, perhaps it did not suit. Sure made it run smooth though.

It was impeccably mannered, and was th easiest starting diesel I have ever owned. It left my care and was sold here on the trading forum when a MVVS .61 diesel came along.

The PAW .40 is to my mind a much more desirable engine, as it runs and throttles well, and is surprisingly powerful for an engine of venerable design. I had one on a "sturdy birdy" and then an ugly stick!

I now have neither PAW ... but regret the sale of my .40.

Still have my PAW TBR .35, 20 years young and seemingly still running in after many hours service.
Old 04-16-2011, 01:35 PM
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Default RE: Large PAW diesels?


ORIGINAL: gmedson

Who was it that described the PAW .60 diesel as a ''Big Friendly Lump?''

-Gary

Eric Clutton
Old 04-16-2011, 03:25 PM
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Default RE: Large PAW diesels?

I wonder if the .60 would improve in power after 5 hours of running? I know that the PAW line take a long time to break in. I had a PAW .09 back when PAW used iron for the crank bushing and after 3 hours it was cranking out big prop swinging power.
Old 04-19-2011, 07:11 AM
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RDJeff
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Default RE: Large PAW diesels?

Well, I ordered a PAW .40, and a Senior Telemaster to mount it on. This should be fun! Can anybody spell endurance?
Old 04-19-2011, 09:05 AM
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Default RE: Large PAW diesels?

RD, I fly a Sig Rascal 40 with an inverted PAW .40, its a great combination. I think the .60 would have been a better choice for the Big Tele. That .40 is going to fall right through the mounting beams.
Old 04-19-2011, 11:41 AM
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Default RE: Large PAW diesels?

Here is my Big Friendly Lump in action with a Graupner 14x7

PAW .60
Prop===Graupner 14x7
Fuel====Davis ABC mix
RPM====7,160
Idle====1,660
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Old 04-19-2011, 01:30 PM
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Default RE: Large PAW diesels?

Nice upgrade to a JetStream English Irvine Carb Dave ... it really sets the look on the Big Friendly Lump!
Old 04-19-2011, 04:20 PM
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Default RE: Large PAW diesels?

Fiery, did you happen to end up with an Irvine .40 with an MVVS 7mm carb? If so, the carb on the PAW .60 came off of your engine. I'll never get the carb back out of the PAW. Its in there for the duration. The PAW .60 throttles like a rheostat. I was smacking the throttle lever trying to trick the PAW into stumbling but no way, its just went 400 or 500 rpm faster at every tap completely unruffled.
Old 04-19-2011, 04:53 PM
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RDJeff
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Default RE: Large PAW diesels?

I was wondering about the mounting arrangements, so I looked the information up on PAW's site. The .60 is only 2mm wider than the .40, and the bolt holes are 3.5mm farther apart. I'm wondering if either engine will fit without doing some mods... I'm sure I can up with a solution.

PAW also says that the .40 will swing props from 11/8 to 17/5, I wonder which I'll wind up with!
Old 04-19-2011, 05:08 PM
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Default RE: Large PAW diesels?

Did you buy the big yellow ARF, that's what I have and its made for a wide engine, I sanded the paint off the inside of the beams and epoxied 1/8" basswood strips to the inside to the beams to accomodate my Saito .80. It looks like the PAW may have to replace the Saito .80. Keep thjis going on how it goes.
You may be interested in knowing that I had to partly disassemble the PAW .40 to get it into the Sig Rascals smallish engine compartment. I removed the cylinder bolts, rotated the exhaust collector around to squeeze the engine in and then reassembled everything, cutting a hole for the exhaust first though.
Old 04-19-2011, 07:38 PM
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Default RE: Large PAW diesels?

Hi David

You just have to love the JetStream Carbs.

Glad to hear the PAW "BFL" .60 runs as well as it looks with it.

The Irvine .40 I have has an AJC conversion head (really nice) and a JetStream Carb. Throttles like a rheostat; as expected!
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Old 04-19-2011, 09:01 PM
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Default RE: Large PAW diesels?

I measured up an O.S. .61 FX that I have here, and it is 42mm wide, while my PAW .29 is 30.5mm, and the PAW .40 is supposed to be 34.8mm. The Tele looks to have a large engine compartment, so I should be able to modify the engine bearers.
Old 04-20-2011, 09:01 AM
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Default RE: Large PAW diesels?

I found my APC 14x6, I don't fly APCs so I had to search for it. the PAW .60 turns it at 8,000. I had to increase the compression by turning the tommy bar about 60 degrees and richening the HS needle by about 60 degrees. THe idle at the same throttle setting as the 1,668 rpm idle is now 2,000. Nobody is going fly it below 2,100 anyway.

Fuel again is Davis ABC mix

RPM===8,000

It took all toll 1hr and 15 minutes to burn 16oz of fuel at various throttle settings. Now if I can find a real 14x6 prop I'll run it again.
Old 04-20-2011, 04:05 PM
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Default RE: Large PAW diesels?


ORIGINAL: RDJeff

PAW also says that the .40 will swing props from 11/8 to 17/5, I wonder which I'll wind up with!
Are you sure about these prop sizes mate? The PAWsite gives between a 13x8 and 11x6 (or 10x8 when runing in.)

Its just that Isee a 17x5 as truly massive lumber for a 40 sized diesel!

Cheers.

Old 04-20-2011, 04:20 PM
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Default RE: Large PAW diesels?

Here is alink to the instructiopns

http://www.eifflaender.com/instruct.htm
Old 04-20-2011, 08:01 PM
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RDJeff
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Default RE: Large PAW diesels?

Good catch there Recycler! The information on the props came from the Carlson website. He's the US importer. A 17" prop would be pretty big for a .40 sized engine!
Old 05-02-2011, 07:32 AM
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RDJeff
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Default RE: Large PAW diesels?

I got the .40 on Saturday, and ran it yesterday! The biggest prop I had on hand was an APC 12x7, but figured it would do alright. The engine started on about the 10th flip, which I thought was pretty good. I ran a 12 oz. tank through it, and it ran around 10,000 rpm the whole time, although I did play with the throttle a little. I think I'm going to like this one!
Old 05-02-2011, 08:38 AM
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Default RE: Large PAW diesels?

Jeff, The .40 is my favorite PAW. I used a MA 12/6 prop for break end on mine. The PAW being the old style iron and steel needs a long break in. A number of 3 to 5 minute runs with a complete cool down between runs. Usually takes 10 minutes on a warm day to cool down. Jack
Old 05-02-2011, 10:03 AM
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RDJeff
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Default RE: Large PAW diesels?

Oh yeah, there are a lot more break-in runs scheduled! On the other end of the board from the PAW .40 was a MARZ 2.5 that I did some work on, and it got it's first runs too.
Old 05-02-2011, 10:48 PM
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Default RE: Large PAW diesels?


ORIGINAL: RDJeff

I got the .40 on Saturday, and ran it yesterday! The biggest prop I had on hand was an APC 12x7, but figured it would do alright. The engine started on about the 10th flip, which I thought was pretty good. I ran a 12 oz. tank through it, and it ran around 10,000 rpm the whole time, although I did play with the throttle a little. I think I'm going to like this one!
Iintend to use an 11X7 on my control line PAW40 and it is what PAW's Tony Eiffliender used on his own stunt models - if its good enough for him then its good enough for me!

But it only runs at 9500 with that prop due to a miniscule throat in the fixed venturi.

Cheers.


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