Recycled Flyer

This one?

qazimoto

My Feedback: (1)

There was quite a flurry of emails going around overnight about what the T4 might be.

From context it's an Iron/Steel p/l so could it be an enhanced 15 sized Oliver Tiger mk4, a .19 sized diesel similar to the R320, or the JO 19 Oliver equivalent?

There's a bit of a market for the bigger engines for the UK Vintage Combat class.

Alberto has all of us guessing anyhow.

Ray

greggles47

Ray ,

Has anyone asked Alberto? Would be interesting to know.

I'm not sure how his difficulties with suppliers/machinists for his other engines slows down the T3

Greg

qazimoto

My Feedback: (1)

I think he's saying that the production of AAC engines is slowed down because of the bottleneck in the Ukraine.

I suppose that someone could actually ask Alberto about the T4, but that would remove the fun of continued pointless speculation.

:-)

Ray

flyingflea1

Hello Greg, as I read it, the last part of the message states that they are about to, or have, run out of cast iron piston material and a new supply is being found.

Better to have the same material from the start than make the first batch, then change to a new supplier.

My guess for the T4 would be a .19 size T3 with crankcase mods to suit a 12mm shaft, ideal for UK Vintage Combat. :-)

Sion

chuck100charles

I have wanted an Oiver Tigre type engine since Moby Dick was a minnow. Needless to say, price was always a real issue. Even the repros from recent production were pricy in the utmost. So i figured, O, what the heck? So I wrote to the chinese manufacturing firm re a CS Oliver copy. I obviously struck a bad chord, by asking if it was possible to get a clean engine since reports of dwarf were rife. I may well have started WW 111! A Mr. Peng, who seems to be their quality control/ manufacturing honcho wrote back to tell me that my letter was out of line, that they have a quick, free replacement policy, and that I was just trying to make them drop their prices. He told me that if I was really concerned about quality, Just purchase an original!
I told him that I would alert as many people as I could, for which he thanked me in a subsequent letter. His English comprehension was as sad as his English grammar. So I send this epistle out to the universe, hoping that it will quickly turn your hearts and money to the East and purchase one of these wonders of the mechanical universe.
Rev. Dr. Charles David Smith, Honorably Retired Presbyterian Minister.

Recycled Flyer

Maybe Mr Peng took a small exception to the "dwarf were rife" comment?

qazimoto

My Feedback: (1)

Mmm, I missed that!

Poor things must be cramped!

Charles, I must say that I'm surprised that you're surprised, that a Chinese national, living in China, would have "poor" English comprehension and Grammar.

Ray

fiery

My Feedback: (2)

CS do cop a caning.

My one and only purchase from them is the 'Twin 30'. This was conducted over the internet and the engine duly arrived. First impression was that it was commendably well made, apart from a couple of small issues (I am fussy).

I killed it on its 4th run. Sheared the coupling connecting the front and rear shaft. No other damage apart from shards in the main bearings. The CS web site states that with every engine purchase there is a no quibble one year wararranty. I put that to the test and emailed Peng Han (Hans) at CS. I sent it back and the engine was fixed it at at his facility at no cost, no questions asked. It was promptly returned and has remained together ever since.

Before first running and after repair I took the back plate and front crankshaft housing off. Both times the case interior was clean. By that I mean not surgically spotless, there was minor extraneous dust debris which I flushed out. Definitely no 'mountains of swarf'. No evidence of poor machining or fits at all.

It awaits a suitable air frame and in the meantime remains a curiosity. I have a friend with a CS reproduction Rivers Silver Streak who is very happy with it. Oliver quality? Of couse not. Is it adequate? In some ways it puts some other diesels I have bought to shame.

I am intrigued about possibly dropping a pair of T3 top ends into this twin though. I will try it.

steve111

I've got what I think is a fairly early CS Oliver, and it's actually not too bad. The bearings are nothing special, and Dave Owen did a bit of work to the head to stop the contra backing out, but it starts and runs very nicely and has an excellent p/c fit. I'm only running mine on an 8.5x4 in a Blue Pants - perhaps it wouldn't last so well in a team racer or combat model.

greggles47

Steve,

I think that that's the major area of concern (or maybe was the case). Once a repro Olly became available at a reasonable cost, the racers and then the vintage combaters were all over them. This was probably the most severe test engines can be subjected to. I gave mine to a well known TR flier and engineer to make it race ready, and there was a long list of things that needed correcting.

If I'd have put it in a Peacemaker it probably would have performed well in that unstressed environment.

From memory there were no mountains of either swarf or dwarfs in the crankcase when I got it.

Greg

flyingflea1

T4 now added to his website, scant extra details though.

http://www.clubtamaran.com/Parra%20T3.htm

qazimoto

My Feedback: (1)

Well that confirms your hunch about the T4 being a .19 and having a 12mm diameter shaft.

You seem to have an insight into Alberto's plans flyingflea. ;-)

Ray

chuck100charles

Note from Parra says that prototype T-3's will be out next month (October)

chuck100charles

What! No swarf or DWARFS (duh) my bad. I meant well
Chuck smith

Recycled Flyer

Hi Ray,
what the deal with the12mm shaft?
Bigger rear bearing I assume (and that's the Achilles heel of the TBR PAW 19 If I recall.)

Thanks. (And I am interested in getting a T4 actually.)

qazimoto

My Feedback: (1)

Yes bigger rear bearing, but also a larger diameter shaft (also 12mm) so it's stronger

and consequently a larger hole down the centre so the engine can breath better.

So there's three combat diesels for the UK Vintage event, the PAW 19 TBR, the R320, and the JO19.

I only have pics of the latter.

Here's some images of a standard mk4 Olly, and then a JO19 that's currently on ebay.

It's obviously built around a mk4 Oliver case but I don't know if that means a bigger crank diameter as well.








It's not obvious that the JO19 has a bigger crank. Anyone know?

Ray

errormuddler

Good question Ray

here's an extract from a note from Tom Ridley in which he says the older Tiger VCS has a 12mm shaft, but I guess its a question of whether the MK IV case will accept the bigger shaft

Tom wrote "The JO19 is a 3.2cc model designed for vintage combat. It is based on a MK1V crankcase with a drop-in liner.
.
The VCS is the same engine that JSO produced many years ago, more suited to the collector. It has a 12mm Shaft and a .525 square Bore and Stroke.
Kind regards
Tom "

errormuddler

A post on this is at http://controlline.org.uk/phpBB2/vie...=128182#128182

It goes " Here is Tom Ridleys clarification of the JO19's & VCS.
I think you'll still have to phone him for confirmation

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:08 pm • Post subject:

The JO19 clarified.
While building in it's original form, designed by JSO, it was difficult to produce this motor with the competative edge required in Vintage Combat. I have redesigned the liner, and along with other mods, have now achieved the results with which I am satisfied.
The purist, or collector, will no doubt want a JSO design, while the active combat boys will want the modified version. I shall be supplying the mod version, unless a specific request is made for the JSO design.
The peripheral carb ,as supplied, is standard.It will also fit the MK111 and MK1V
The VCS (Vintage Combat Special) is available. This is John's original 2.5cc engine, which had a 12mm shaft and .575 "square bore and stroke together with a 3/4 Muffler.
Sorry for any confusion and hope this makes things a little clearer.
Regards
Tom"


I'd say the Mk IV cased JO19 has a 12mm shaft, from this.
But since the R320 is sadly out of production, still only 3 options incl the T4 when available

qazimoto

My Feedback: (1)

That's good info Alan.

I wonder if the mk4 Olly now has a 12mm shaft?

I've just realised that I've actually replaced the bearings in my old one with R4 and R6 just like what fit the mk3 so it can't be one.

All very confusing still.

There must be a mk4 3/8" shaft, a VCS mk4 with a 12mm shaft and the JO19 also a 12mm shaft.

Ray

errormuddler

Ray, the info was from a post by flyingflea on Barton, he's the one with the knowledge !

flyingflea1

Maybe of interest.


I only noticed this a few months ago, these 'photos show how the R250/320 crankcase can take a 12mm shaft,
the parallel area between the bearings has a greater diameter than the Oliver, the venturi boss is larger too.

Also notable is the increased distance between the bearings but overall the Rothwell is shorter, very crafty.

errormuddler

Getting back to the T3, there's a nice photo of the cutaway display engine, interesting that the front of the piston is shown as recessed at the bottom to clear the crank web . Why do it this way, is it to reduce crankcase volume maybe ?
And the comp screw is different, not that this matters looks like a push-pull contra piston setup

flyingflea1

The cutaway display engine is not a T3

errormuddler

You're right, of course.
Same question applies though, why do it that way ?