Rustler Oliver Tiger
07-20-2013, 03:50 PM
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Rustler Oliver Tiger
I flew my Rustler Olly yesterday, using my usual Olly brew fuel mix (plus 1.4% IPN). The model was a Hearns Hobbies Gladiator.
Conditions at my field were cool, around 17 -18 degC.
The motor took at least half the first tank to properly warm and then run smoothly. For the second tank, I richened it up a couple of clicks and it ran well for all the tank.
For cold running should the IPN be adjusted? and which way?
Greg
Conditions at my field were cool, around 17 -18 degC.
The motor took at least half the first tank to properly warm and then run smoothly. For the second tank, I richened it up a couple of clicks and it ran well for all the tank.
For cold running should the IPN be adjusted? and which way?
Greg
07-20-2013, 04:39 PM
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RE: Rustler Oliver Tiger
ORIGINAL: greggles47
I flew my Rustler Olly yesterday, using my usual Olly brew fuel mix (plus 1.4% IPN). The model was a Hearns Hobbies Gladiator.
Conditions at my field were cool, around 17 -18 degC.
The motor took at least half the first tank to properly warm and then run smoothly. For the second tank, I richened it up a couple of clicks and it ran well for all the tank.
For cold running should the IPN be adjusted? and which way?
Greg
I flew my Rustler Olly yesterday, using my usual Olly brew fuel mix (plus 1.4% IPN). The model was a Hearns Hobbies Gladiator.
Conditions at my field were cool, around 17 -18 degC.
The motor took at least half the first tank to properly warm and then run smoothly. For the second tank, I richened it up a couple of clicks and it ran well for all the tank.
For cold running should the IPN be adjusted? and which way?
Greg
we flew a Parra 15D powered Anduril yesterday in similar conditions with about 1.5% IPN. You generally add a little cetane booster to "our" average of 1.4% as the temp drops and take it away as it rises.
Apparently IPN is in short supply till the years end, so we're back to Amsoil till then.
Ray
07-20-2013, 05:23 PM
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RE: Rustler Oliver Tiger
I'm with Martin-I think you're quite a bit too low on IPN regardless-I'd be thinking in the 2-2.5% range for an Olly (could be worse-Frog 249s need about 4%!)..........its usually only in hot conditions that you get problems from the IPN/DII/amyl and %s become more critical. I'd take it up to 2% and be prepared to go higher depending on how it behaves at the 2% mark.....
ChrisM
'ffkiwi'
ChrisM
'ffkiwi'
07-20-2013, 05:47 PM
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RE: Rustler Oliver Tiger
ORIGINAL: ffkiwi
I'm with Martin-I think you're quite a bit too low on IPN regardless-I'd be thinking in the 2-2.5% range for an Olly (could be worse-Frog 249s need about 4%!)..........its usually only in hot conditions that you get problems from the IPN/DII/amyl and %s become more critical. I'd take it up to 2% and be prepared to go higher depending on how it behaves at the 2% mark.....
ChrisM
'ffkiwi'
I'm with Martin-I think you're quite a bit too low on IPN regardless-I'd be thinking in the 2-2.5% range for an Olly (could be worse-Frog 249s need about 4%!)..........its usually only in hot conditions that you get problems from the IPN/DII/amyl and %s become more critical. I'd take it up to 2% and be prepared to go higher depending on how it behaves at the 2% mark.....
ChrisM
'ffkiwi'
current thinking in Oz is that it depends on the kero and the ideal amount has to be determined experimentally.
Steve Rothwell and Lance Smith produced a graph showing the ideal range of IPN over a wide temperature range for Diggers grey kero.
It was probably published in ACLN.
Over 2% is unheard of these days in Australia, but may work very well elsewhere.
Ray
07-20-2013, 06:27 PM
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RE: Rustler Oliver Tiger
That's interesting Ray-and I can quite believe it. What would be even more useful would be good solid data on the various additives-ie the curves done for amyl nitrate, amyl nitrite, isopropyl nitrate, DII-1,2,3
This would allow published fuel formulas-many of which go back decades-to be adjusted in terms of currently available ingredients. Personally I would expect the ether to have some effect as well-as it will be the ratio of kero to ether in the fuel that will influence the ignition point (I think we can-hopefully-regard the oil as being inert for the purposes of ignition stoichiometry)
....my kero comes from the local supermarket-in one or 2 litre bottles-at about NZ $7 a litre-I've never inquired deeply into its antecedents. We do have the 'Super cheap auto' chain here and one assumes that the stuff they sell is the same as their Australian product line..........
ChrisM
'ffkiwi'
This would allow published fuel formulas-many of which go back decades-to be adjusted in terms of currently available ingredients. Personally I would expect the ether to have some effect as well-as it will be the ratio of kero to ether in the fuel that will influence the ignition point (I think we can-hopefully-regard the oil as being inert for the purposes of ignition stoichiometry)
....my kero comes from the local supermarket-in one or 2 litre bottles-at about NZ $7 a litre-I've never inquired deeply into its antecedents. We do have the 'Super cheap auto' chain here and one assumes that the stuff they sell is the same as their Australian product line..........
ChrisM
'ffkiwi'
07-21-2013, 01:52 AM
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RE: Rustler Oliver Tiger
I still have the 'grey' KCB Kerosene at my local Supa-Cheap Auto store. Currently about AUD $14 for four litres retail. I have two four litre packs of it stored away. A few threads back Ray mentioned some possibility of it not coming from Australian refined feed stock in the future . I may stock up my hoard of KCB kero next time Supa-Cheap have a store-wide sale.
My little FROG 149 Vibra-matic was not completely happy on 1.5% IPN fuel.
My little FROG 149 Vibra-matic was not completely happy on 1.5% IPN fuel.
07-21-2013, 07:46 AM
#9
RE: Rustler Oliver Tiger
with the Kero issues (quality) you guys are having in "Roo land" I wonder if the addition of 3 to 5% gasoline to the Kero would improve it, then of course use it in your normal %
of kero, just a guess martin
of kero, just a guess martin
07-21-2013, 12:22 PM
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RE: Rustler Oliver Tiger
ORIGINAL: qazimoto
Greg,
we flew a Parra 15D powered Anduril yesterday in similar conditions with about 1.5% IPN. You generally add a little cetane booster to "our" average of 1.4% as the temp drops and take it away as it rises.
Apparently IPN is in short supply till the years end, so we're back to Amsoil till then.
Ray
ORIGINAL: greggles47
I flew my Rustler Olly yesterday, using my usual Olly brew fuel mix (plus 1.4% IPN). The model was a Hearns Hobbies Gladiator.
Conditions at my field were cool, around 17 -18 degC.
The motor took at least half the first tank to properly warm and then run smoothly. For the second tank, I richened it up a couple of clicks and it ran well for all the tank.
For cold running should the IPN be adjusted? and which way?
Greg
I flew my Rustler Olly yesterday, using my usual Olly brew fuel mix (plus 1.4% IPN). The model was a Hearns Hobbies Gladiator.
Conditions at my field were cool, around 17 -18 degC.
The motor took at least half the first tank to properly warm and then run smoothly. For the second tank, I richened it up a couple of clicks and it ran well for all the tank.
For cold running should the IPN be adjusted? and which way?
Greg
we flew a Parra 15D powered Anduril yesterday in similar conditions with about 1.5% IPN. You generally add a little cetane booster to "our" average of 1.4% as the temp drops and take it away as it rises.
Apparently IPN is in short supply till the years end, so we're back to Amsoil till then.
Ray
Ray
It apears that yourself and another of your club mates don't share the same opinion of diesel fuels.
When I started using Amsoil I used it at the same 1.5% as I used IPN on my Fletcher CS Oliver.
Engine would continually take a few laps to warm up and come on properly then go like the clappers.
On relaying this information to Bob Fisher, the first thing he said was that I was using too much Amsoil.
He told me to go to only 1% Amsoil and problem will go away and It Did.
Now I can't talk for our fellow Northern Hemesphere modellers or for Chris in NZ. but here in Australia,
Bob says he uses this same mixture in all his diesel engines in All weathers all year round and has never had a problem.
Bellow is the recipe that Bob Fisher gave me.
Castor Oil - 100ml
KCB (Supercheap Auto) Kero - 250ml
Ether - 150ml
Amsiol - 5ml
For larger quantities, this make for your 30/50/20 mix with 1% Amsoil.
While on the fuel topic Ray, What's your opinion of Kero Vs A1 Jet?
Another thing that everyone seems to have a different opiunion on.
Cheers guys
Fredo
07-21-2013, 03:13 PM
#11
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RE: Rustler Oliver Tiger
ORIGINAL: ffkiwi
That's interesting Ray-and I can quite believe it. What would be even more useful would be good solid data on the various additives-ie the curves done for amyl nitrate, amyl nitrite, isopropyl nitrate, DII-1,2,3
This would allow published fuel formulas-many of which go back decades-to be adjusted in terms of currently available ingredients. Personally I would expect the ether to have some effect as well-as it will be the ratio of kero to ether in the fuel that will influence the ignition point (I think we can-hopefully-regard the oil as being inert for the purposes of ignition stoichiometry)
....my kero comes from the local supermarket-in one or 2 litre bottles-at about NZ $7 a litre-I've never inquired deeply into its antecedents. We do have the 'Super cheap auto' chain here and one assumes that the stuff they sell is the same as their Australian product line..........
ChrisM
'ffkiwi'
That's interesting Ray-and I can quite believe it. What would be even more useful would be good solid data on the various additives-ie the curves done for amyl nitrate, amyl nitrite, isopropyl nitrate, DII-1,2,3
This would allow published fuel formulas-many of which go back decades-to be adjusted in terms of currently available ingredients. Personally I would expect the ether to have some effect as well-as it will be the ratio of kero to ether in the fuel that will influence the ignition point (I think we can-hopefully-regard the oil as being inert for the purposes of ignition stoichiometry)
....my kero comes from the local supermarket-in one or 2 litre bottles-at about NZ $7 a litre-I've never inquired deeply into its antecedents. We do have the 'Super cheap auto' chain here and one assumes that the stuff they sell is the same as their Australian product line..........
ChrisM
'ffkiwi'
I'm not aware of anyone doing direct tests on all of those additives. The IPN available here is lab grade but the DII is either the 2EHN from Amsoil or lab grade stuff.
The latter seems to be "different" in that they smell different and they seem to have a different range of effective percentages.
One of the oz teams at a recent F2C WC took their own "Diggers" brand kero with them to Europe and varied the DII during the races using a mulch-chambered filling device.
They won!
I'll see if I can find and post the fuel instruction sheet for the R250.
It's an interesting read.
Ray
07-21-2013, 03:35 PM
#12
My Feedback: (1)
RE: Rustler Oliver Tiger
ORIGINAL: PWF63
Ray
It apears that yourself and another of your club mates don't share the same opinion of diesel fuels.
When I started using Amsoil I used it at the same 1.5% as I used IPN on my Fletcher CS Oliver.
Engine would continually take a few laps to warm up and come on properly then go like the clappers.
On relaying this information to Bob Fisher, the first thing he said was that I was using too much Amsoil.
He told me to go to only 1% Amsoil and problem will go away and It Did.
Now I can't talk for our fellow Northern Hemesphere modellers or for Chris in NZ. but here in Australia,
Bob says he uses this same mixture in all his diesel engines in All weathers all year round and has never had a problem.
Bellow is the recipe that Bob Fisher gave me.
Castor Oil - 100ml
KCB (Supercheap Auto) Kero - 250ml
Ether - 150ml
Amsiol - 5ml
For larger quantities, this make for your 30/50/20 mix with 1% Amsoil.
While on the fuel topic Ray, What's your opinion of Kero Vs A1 Jet?
Another thing that everyone seems to have a different opiunion on.
Cheers guys
Fredo
Ray
It apears that yourself and another of your club mates don't share the same opinion of diesel fuels.
When I started using Amsoil I used it at the same 1.5% as I used IPN on my Fletcher CS Oliver.
Engine would continually take a few laps to warm up and come on properly then go like the clappers.
On relaying this information to Bob Fisher, the first thing he said was that I was using too much Amsoil.
He told me to go to only 1% Amsoil and problem will go away and It Did.
Now I can't talk for our fellow Northern Hemesphere modellers or for Chris in NZ. but here in Australia,
Bob says he uses this same mixture in all his diesel engines in All weathers all year round and has never had a problem.
Bellow is the recipe that Bob Fisher gave me.
Castor Oil - 100ml
KCB (Supercheap Auto) Kero - 250ml
Ether - 150ml
Amsiol - 5ml
For larger quantities, this make for your 30/50/20 mix with 1% Amsoil.
While on the fuel topic Ray, What's your opinion of Kero Vs A1 Jet?
Another thing that everyone seems to have a different opiunion on.
Cheers guys
Fredo
Generally most people warm up their diesels before launching it. The slight variations in the DII volumes also vary the warm up time.
Have a look at the instructions that came with your R250.
Otherwise most people seem to get by with a summer and a winter mix, although there hasn't been too much difference lately.
Nothing wrong with Jet-A1, although they do say that all kero is that anyway.
When the "good" Diggers brand went we tried Jet-A1, but there seemed to be differences in colour between batches. So when the Super-Cheap proved ok we stuck with it.
As you say it's easy to get into a religious war over it as well.
Ray
07-21-2013, 05:42 PM
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RE: Rustler Oliver Tiger
Chris,
here's the link to Lance Smith's tests.
http://aerosports.net.au/LS/Classic_...IPN_Usage.html
So interesting stuff there.
Ray
here's the link to Lance Smith's tests.
http://aerosports.net.au/LS/Classic_...IPN_Usage.html
So interesting stuff there.
Ray
07-22-2013, 03:10 PM
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RE: Rustler Oliver Tiger
Thanks for all the feedback on this, some really interesting replies.
I wonder if just dropping the oil content by a couple of % might work as well??
I wonder if just dropping the oil content by a couple of % might work as well??
07-30-2013, 01:36 AM
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RE: Rustler Oliver Tiger
Well the problem disappeared with the cold weather. So now the accepted answer is as Ray said, to add a touch in colder weather.
OR
Play with glows in the cold.
Greg
OR
Play with glows in the cold.
Greg
