Diesel Noob with KMD Question
07-24-2014, 03:40 PM
#101
My Feedback: (1)
Greetings All:
An update on the KMD 2.5. What a sweet engine it has been, thanks to all the help here! It impressed several committed glow fliers at a recent family reunion.
I've got it turning the 8x4 APC prop at 13,000 rpm leaned out; a bit under-compressed with light, coffee-colored exhaust. The contra-piston absolutely refuses to back off (I tried everything) without disassembly and using a wooden dowel and vice to do the job. Thus I'm happy to leave it under compressed in these circumstances and go with it unless someone here has a better idea.
Now a question for the collective wisdom here. It's time to start assembling a C/L ship for this mill. I've in mind a larger training craft for those who are comfortable with 1/2A trainers. It'd be nice to have something that could do loops or inverted flight, but not overpowered for 50' or 60' lines. (Hope I'm not contradicting myself here.)
I've a full-sized set of plans for a Flite Streak, so will consider it if you folks think that it might work. The model has a wing span of 42" with 390 sq. inches of wing area. Text with the plans call for glow power .19 to .35 turning a 9-6 or 10-6 prop. Given this, I wonder if I'm underpowered a bit, but not sure. What do you think? I'm not averse to having the plans reduced by some percentage for a smaller model, though I'd have to make adjustments for the dimension lumber as needed.
Finally, I enjoy tinkering and building almost more than flying. Thus construction would be a slow, fun winter project with air time expected for the North's next summer.
Dave Mo...
An update on the KMD 2.5. What a sweet engine it has been, thanks to all the help here! It impressed several committed glow fliers at a recent family reunion.
I've got it turning the 8x4 APC prop at 13,000 rpm leaned out; a bit under-compressed with light, coffee-colored exhaust. The contra-piston absolutely refuses to back off (I tried everything) without disassembly and using a wooden dowel and vice to do the job. Thus I'm happy to leave it under compressed in these circumstances and go with it unless someone here has a better idea.
Now a question for the collective wisdom here. It's time to start assembling a C/L ship for this mill. I've in mind a larger training craft for those who are comfortable with 1/2A trainers. It'd be nice to have something that could do loops or inverted flight, but not overpowered for 50' or 60' lines. (Hope I'm not contradicting myself here.)
I've a full-sized set of plans for a Flite Streak, so will consider it if you folks think that it might work. The model has a wing span of 42" with 390 sq. inches of wing area. Text with the plans call for glow power .19 to .35 turning a 9-6 or 10-6 prop. Given this, I wonder if I'm underpowered a bit, but not sure. What do you think? I'm not averse to having the plans reduced by some percentage for a smaller model, though I'd have to make adjustments for the dimension lumber as needed.
Finally, I enjoy tinkering and building almost more than flying. Thus construction would be a slow, fun winter project with air time expected for the North's next summer.
Dave Mo...
the George Aldrich profile Peacemaker is a slightly scaled down Flitestreak designed for .15 sized diesels. It's very popular with C/L diesel enthusiasts.
The plan is available free from either Hippocket or Outerzone.
The KMD will work nicely in it, but you would have to cut into the leading edge a bit to fit a tank with the rear induction engine. On the positive side a smaller than usual tank will suffice because of it's good economy.
About 40cc should be fine
07-24-2014, 03:54 PM
#102
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SydneyNew South wales, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 1,346
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
I agree with the choice of the Peacemaker.
I have one yet to be flown with a Marz diesel (same rear induction layout as the KMD) and I lengthened the tail by 50mm and the nose by 12mm to keep the CG intact.
The tank fits in fine with no leading edge notch needed.
Another popular modification seems to be using a 36" mainspar instead of cutting it down to 34" as on the original plan - this obviously gives more wing area.
I have one yet to be flown with a Marz diesel (same rear induction layout as the KMD) and I lengthened the tail by 50mm and the nose by 12mm to keep the CG intact.
The tank fits in fine with no leading edge notch needed.
Another popular modification seems to be using a 36" mainspar instead of cutting it down to 34" as on the original plan - this obviously gives more wing area.
07-25-2014, 01:36 PM
#103
Hello:
The Flite Streak is a great airplane for your .15 Diesel! I have flown a Flite Streak with a ST G20/15D and a ST G20/23 and both engines worked very well. Since they are much lighter than a .29-.35 engine, no tail weight is needed to get the plane to perform well. I have learned to use 52 foot lines for the .15 size airplanes.
Oh yes, you can purchase an ARF Flight Streak for about what the kit costs! My flying buddy flies a Brodak ARF with a ST G20/23 and it flies very well. There is no reason to build a FS when Brodak sells the ARF. I think that there is about $8.00 difference between the cost of the ARF and the kit!
It seems to me that I always used a 7X6, 8X4 or a 9X4 on my .15 size Diesels. I let them "spin up" as I am afraid of breaking crankpins with larger props!
Good luck,
Franch
The Flite Streak is a great airplane for your .15 Diesel! I have flown a Flite Streak with a ST G20/15D and a ST G20/23 and both engines worked very well. Since they are much lighter than a .29-.35 engine, no tail weight is needed to get the plane to perform well. I have learned to use 52 foot lines for the .15 size airplanes.
Oh yes, you can purchase an ARF Flight Streak for about what the kit costs! My flying buddy flies a Brodak ARF with a ST G20/23 and it flies very well. There is no reason to build a FS when Brodak sells the ARF. I think that there is about $8.00 difference between the cost of the ARF and the kit!
It seems to me that I always used a 7X6, 8X4 or a 9X4 on my .15 size Diesels. I let them "spin up" as I am afraid of breaking crankpins with larger props!
Good luck,
Franch
07-27-2014, 09:56 AM
#104
Thread Starter
Qazimoto
Thank-you for the Peacemaker suggestion - I'd heard of it, but had no idea it was so similar to the Flite Streak. The leading and trailing edges are less complicated, so I think this will be my model. The Outerzone download doesn't show a scale, but I can impute one from Recycled Flyer's comment on the size of the main spar. Nice suggestion on the 40cc tank as it will keep flights relatively short.
Dave Mo
Thank-you for the Peacemaker suggestion - I'd heard of it, but had no idea it was so similar to the Flite Streak. The leading and trailing edges are less complicated, so I think this will be my model. The Outerzone download doesn't show a scale, but I can impute one from Recycled Flyer's comment on the size of the main spar. Nice suggestion on the 40cc tank as it will keep flights relatively short.
Dave Mo
Last edited by DaveyMo; 07-27-2014 at 09:58 AM.
07-27-2014, 10:05 AM
#105
Thread Starter
Recycled:
Thanks for your concurrence on the Peacemaker. It seems like you are making a case for enlarging the model's original dimensions. Can you expand on that a bit?
Do you ever get over to the Opera House? Quite the structure, it must provides a venue for a variety of programs? I found a photo online showing the main stage and taken from way up in the "nosebleed" section. Wow!
Dave Mo
Thanks for your concurrence on the Peacemaker. It seems like you are making a case for enlarging the model's original dimensions. Can you expand on that a bit?
Do you ever get over to the Opera House? Quite the structure, it must provides a venue for a variety of programs? I found a photo online showing the main stage and taken from way up in the "nosebleed" section. Wow!
Dave Mo
07-27-2014, 10:15 AM
#106
Thread Starter
Franchi:
Thanks for the comments. I will save the Flite Streak build for a larger glow engine that I have on hand. However if I lose patience, I'll definitely look it up in ARF format. By the way, I had no luck finding the ARF on the Brodak site, but perhaps they were just out of stock. Also I'll certainly use your suggestion for line length on the KMD .15.
Dave Mo...
Thanks for the comments. I will save the Flite Streak build for a larger glow engine that I have on hand. However if I lose patience, I'll definitely look it up in ARF format. By the way, I had no luck finding the ARF on the Brodak site, but perhaps they were just out of stock. Also I'll certainly use your suggestion for line length on the KMD .15.
Dave Mo...
07-27-2014, 03:03 PM
#107
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SydneyNew South wales, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 1,346
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
I am not the expert on these but have seen slightly enlarged ones perform VERY well.
Steve Rothwells (of R 250 fame) enlarged Peacemaker went like stink and because it had the power by using an R250 team race engine/combat probably made the best of it with more wing area.
So, if your engine is similar high power then perhaps a similar treatment would suit.
ARF Flite Streaks (to me) are rubbish - I was given one to use and then gave it to the garbage man instead.
Soft engine bearers, mylar cover that peeled everywhere, the mono wheel mount was incurably loose etc.
Best if you make your model from scratch methinks.
07-27-2014, 03:14 PM
#108
Hi Dave Mo:
You may purchase an ARF Flite Streak form Tower Hobbies for $80. Your .15 Diesel will pull it very nicely.
My flying buddy is flying one that appears to be a good one.
Good luck,
Franchi
You may purchase an ARF Flite Streak form Tower Hobbies for $80. Your .15 Diesel will pull it very nicely.
My flying buddy is flying one that appears to be a good one.
Good luck,
Franchi
07-27-2014, 04:55 PM
#109
My Feedback: (1)
Qazimoto
Thank-you for the Peacemaker suggestion - I'd heard of it, but had no idea it was so similar to the Flite Streak. The leading and trailing edges are less complicated, so I think this will be my model. The Outerzone download doesn't show a scale, but I can impute one from Recycled Flyer's comment on the size of the main spar. Nice suggestion on the 40cc tank as it will keep flights relatively short.
Dave Mo
Thank-you for the Peacemaker suggestion - I'd heard of it, but had no idea it was so similar to the Flite Streak. The leading and trailing edges are less complicated, so I think this will be my model. The Outerzone download doesn't show a scale, but I can impute one from Recycled Flyer's comment on the size of the main spar. Nice suggestion on the 40cc tank as it will keep flights relatively short.
Dave Mo
the Outerzone plan is a full size pdf. You have two options to print it out. First to take the file to a plan printing outlet. We have a national chain here in Australia called Office
Works. They print it out at 100% for about $3. The other choice is sometimes more convenient.
You load the pdf file into Adobe pdf reader, select print, and then the option of "Tile".
This prints out the whole plan segmented on a whole lot of A4 ( or whatever your printer uses) sheets. You then stick them together to produce a working plan.
Concerning the Sydney Opera House. I realise you addressed you comments to Chris, but I was there at the opening. Despite that I've never actually been inside.
However that area of Sydney including the Opera house, the bridge and the surrounding headlands on the harbour make a most glorious venue for the more spectacular type
of community events. They can accommodate up to a million people, New Years Eve celebrations there for example are possibly the best on earth.
:-)
07-27-2014, 05:03 PM
#110
My Feedback: (1)
Concerning the ARF Flitestreak. I have one but it has an OS 25 glow in it. It's light and a good performer but it's disposable. They've traded off strength for lightness. I saw Steve Rothwell flying one with his R250 diesel (number one, the test engine) in it on a 9x4 prop. I'd guess that it pulled it around at about 80-85 mph. Each flight the Streak would show more signs of stress. The leadshot tipweight for example, was loose and leaking. I believe that it finally fell apart.
Last edited by qazimoto; 07-28-2014 at 12:41 AM.
07-27-2014, 05:13 PM
#111
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SydneyNew South wales, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 1,346
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
Hi Ray,
The Peacemaker that I saw had Steve's number 1 in it also and used an 8x4 prop that (in his words) was used "to try and slow it down." (!)
And it went like the clappers even with the increased wing span!
The Opera House, I remember them building it and have vivid memories of seeing the cast in the ground concrete supports and my late father explaining to me what pre-stressed concrete was during a construction site drive by.
Its pretty but horribly impractical, a view shared by a neighbor who is the number 1 oboe player there.
The Peacemaker that I saw had Steve's number 1 in it also and used an 8x4 prop that (in his words) was used "to try and slow it down." (!)
And it went like the clappers even with the increased wing span!
The Opera House, I remember them building it and have vivid memories of seeing the cast in the ground concrete supports and my late father explaining to me what pre-stressed concrete was during a construction site drive by.
Its pretty but horribly impractical, a view shared by a neighbor who is the number 1 oboe player there.
07-27-2014, 09:39 PM
#112
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Sydney, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 530
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dave,
My latest Peacemaker is stretched out to 41.5" span. The tail moment is stretched an extra 1". Has an OS LA15 with muffler. It flies like it's on rails. So stretch away to your hearts content a larger wing is only going to be better.
On the Opera House - I've seen many great performances there, from Roy Orbison, to the Blind Boys from Alabama. A truly great venue, enhanced by the drinks at interval looking out on the Harbour set off perfectly by the Sydney Harbour Bridge. Acoustics are fantastic, there are no bad seats and the seating is comfortable. You can probably even find some performances on youtube.
Chris again you don't quote from personal experience. Admittedly I've never played any instrument, but I worked with a bloke who got to play the organ there & he was totally wrapped.
My latest Peacemaker is stretched out to 41.5" span. The tail moment is stretched an extra 1". Has an OS LA15 with muffler. It flies like it's on rails. So stretch away to your hearts content a larger wing is only going to be better.
On the Opera House - I've seen many great performances there, from Roy Orbison, to the Blind Boys from Alabama. A truly great venue, enhanced by the drinks at interval looking out on the Harbour set off perfectly by the Sydney Harbour Bridge. Acoustics are fantastic, there are no bad seats and the seating is comfortable. You can probably even find some performances on youtube.
Chris again you don't quote from personal experience. Admittedly I've never played any instrument, but I worked with a bloke who got to play the organ there & he was totally wrapped.
Last edited by greggles47; 07-27-2014 at 09:42 PM.
07-31-2014, 09:00 AM
#114
Thread Starter
Qazimoto:
Very good directions on how to print out the plan! We've got a local engineering company that'll do them in one go, but I think I'll try the print and paste method first here at home. Thanks.
Mo...
Very good directions on how to print out the plan! We've got a local engineering company that'll do them in one go, but I think I'll try the print and paste method first here at home. Thanks.
Mo...
07-31-2014, 09:19 AM
#115
Thread Starter
Greg
Nice comments on the Opera House, particularly on the legendary programs you've had the opportunity to attend! Now regarding the Peacemaker, just a bit of clarification is needed. When you mention that the model flies like it's on rails after your modifications, do you mean that it flies more predictably and smoothly (perhaps at the expense of some maneuverability)? If so, that is what I'd like to achieve. Thanks.
Dave Mo...
Nice comments on the Opera House, particularly on the legendary programs you've had the opportunity to attend! Now regarding the Peacemaker, just a bit of clarification is needed. When you mention that the model flies like it's on rails after your modifications, do you mean that it flies more predictably and smoothly (perhaps at the expense of some maneuverability)? If so, that is what I'd like to achieve. Thanks.
Dave Mo...
07-31-2014, 03:09 PM
#116
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Sydney, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 530
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Greg
Nice comments on the Opera House, particularly on the legendary programs you've had the opportunity to attend! Now regarding the Peacemaker, just a bit of clarification is needed. When you mention that the model flies like it's on rails after your modifications, do you mean that it flies more predictably and smoothly (perhaps at the expense of some maneuverability)? If so, that is what I'd like to achieve. Thanks.
Dave Mo...
Nice comments on the Opera House, particularly on the legendary programs you've had the opportunity to attend! Now regarding the Peacemaker, just a bit of clarification is needed. When you mention that the model flies like it's on rails after your modifications, do you mean that it flies more predictably and smoothly (perhaps at the expense of some maneuverability)? If so, that is what I'd like to achieve. Thanks.
Dave Mo...
The additional wing area gives a smoother flying model, while the extra tail moment gives more responsiveness. So all up the mods give you a model that will fly where you want it to, with snappier maneouvers. I just love the way bigger wings fly.
07-31-2014, 03:28 PM
#117
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Wollongong, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 393
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've in mind a larger training craft for those who are comfortable with 1/2A trainers. It'd be nice to have something that could do loops or inverted flight, but not overpowered for 50' or 60' lines. (Hope I'm not contradicting myself here.)
I saw the results of someone's first attempt at inverted with an ARF Flitestreak. It looked like Semtex was involved. Admittedly it was being powered by an Enya SS30 with a 9x7, but even so, I think you'd be wanting something a bit stronger.
As a completely different alternative, a recent edition of Aeromodeller had plans for something called an 'Ee-zee', which is a 320 sq.in profile for .15s. There are two slightly different versions - 'Ee-zee 1' is a trainer, and 'Ee-zee 2' (with a different wing section and more elevator area) is for basic aerobatics. I've just built the trainer version with my son, and it's enormously strong. I'm pretty sure you could bludgeon someone to death with it without damaging the model. Not that I intend to or anything. While the aerobatic version would build heavier than a Peacemaker and wouldn't ultimately be as capable, it might be just the sort of thing you're after.
Steve
08-02-2014, 07:46 PM
#118
Thread Starter
Steve:
Very perceptive of you to recall the statement I made earlier concerning the type of model I'm looking for. The idea of a choice between a trainer craft and a ship that's built for limited aerobatics certainly appeals here. I'll take a look at the magazine's web site and see if those plans can be had. I hadn't realized to what extent the Peacemaker and the Flite Streak were designed for speed and high performance aerobatics, though the speeds mentioned in the written material accompanying the Peacemaker plans did give me pause. Thanks!
Dave Mo
Very perceptive of you to recall the statement I made earlier concerning the type of model I'm looking for. The idea of a choice between a trainer craft and a ship that's built for limited aerobatics certainly appeals here. I'll take a look at the magazine's web site and see if those plans can be had. I hadn't realized to what extent the Peacemaker and the Flite Streak were designed for speed and high performance aerobatics, though the speeds mentioned in the written material accompanying the Peacemaker plans did give me pause. Thanks!
Dave Mo
08-03-2014, 09:15 AM
#119
Dave,
George Aldrich designed the Flite Streak for Combat. That event progressed rapidly and the Flite Streak was soon outpaced leaving an excellent sport plane. Smaller variations followed. He designed the Peacemaker for the British/European flyers and sized it for the Oliver Tigre .15 diesel. It is similar to the Flite Streak but has a smaller aspect ratio.
If you want a full-fuselage ship for 2.5cc (.15) George designed another ship...also called Peacemaker. :-)
George
George Aldrich designed the Flite Streak for Combat. That event progressed rapidly and the Flite Streak was soon outpaced leaving an excellent sport plane. Smaller variations followed. He designed the Peacemaker for the British/European flyers and sized it for the Oliver Tigre .15 diesel. It is similar to the Flite Streak but has a smaller aspect ratio.
If you want a full-fuselage ship for 2.5cc (.15) George designed another ship...also called Peacemaker. :-)
George
08-04-2014, 08:26 AM
#120
Thread Starter
Thanks, George. Mr. Aldrich must have been quite fond of that Peacemaker moniker!
Perhaps I'd better communicate a bit more of what I've in mind for the KMD. I like to demonstrate model engines and airplanes at family and community events. My CL skills are rather limited, and I probably won't do anything more ambitious in my remaining lifetime. But occasionally someone from the crowd wants to try their hand at the handle. Thus it'd be nice to have a model on the end of the lines that would be both a predictable flyer and somewhat rugged.
Dave Mo...
Perhaps I'd better communicate a bit more of what I've in mind for the KMD. I like to demonstrate model engines and airplanes at family and community events. My CL skills are rather limited, and I probably won't do anything more ambitious in my remaining lifetime. But occasionally someone from the crowd wants to try their hand at the handle. Thus it'd be nice to have a model on the end of the lines that would be both a predictable flyer and somewhat rugged.
Dave Mo...
08-04-2014, 03:56 PM
#121
My Feedback: (1)
Thanks, George. Mr. Aldrich must have been quite fond of that Peacemaker moniker!
Perhaps I'd better communicate a bit more of what I've in mind for the KMD. I like to demonstrate model engines and airplanes at family and community events. My CL skills are rather limited, and I probably won't do anything more ambitious in my remaining lifetime. But occasionally someone from the crowd wants to try their hand at the handle. Thus it'd be nice to have a model on the end of the lines that would be both a predictable flyer and somewhat rugged.
Dave Mo...
Perhaps I'd better communicate a bit more of what I've in mind for the KMD. I like to demonstrate model engines and airplanes at family and community events. My CL skills are rather limited, and I probably won't do anything more ambitious in my remaining lifetime. But occasionally someone from the crowd wants to try their hand at the handle. Thus it'd be nice to have a model on the end of the lines that would be both a predictable flyer and somewhat rugged.
Dave Mo...
It looks very suitable to be a diesel powered c/l stunter. I'll see if I can PM it to you.
Ray
08-04-2014, 04:40 PM
#122
Perhaps I'd better communicate a bit more of what I've in mind for the KMD. I like to demonstrate model engines and airplanes at family and community events. My CL skills are rather limited, and I probably won't do anything more ambitious in my remaining lifetime. But occasionally someone from the crowd wants to try their hand at the handle. Thus it'd be nice to have a model on the end of the lines that would be both a predictable flyer and somewhat rugged.
Dave Mo...
Dave Mo...
George
08-04-2014, 04:52 PM
#123
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Wollongong, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 393
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just to give you an idea, this is the 'Ee-zee 1' I've built with my son. It's no oil painting, but I'd say it ticks the 'somewhat rugged' box. The tank is 1 1/3 oz, and the engine is mounted as far back as it can be - so I'd imagine that you could get your KMD in there ok.
08-04-2014, 09:45 PM
#124
My Feedback: (1)
Just to give you an idea, this is the 'Ee-zee 1' I've built with my son. It's no oil painting, but I'd say it ticks the 'somewhat rugged' box. The tank is 1 1/3 oz, and the engine is mounted as far back as it can be - so I'd imagine that you could get your KMD in there ok.
I think I'll put one on my to build list, I'm all "peacemaker-ed" out!
:-)