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Found an old (Davies-Charlton?) diesel airplane engine

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Old 06-06-2015, 10:54 AM
  #1
Catse
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Question Found an old (Davies-Charlton?) diesel airplane engine

Ok, so I just found this old RC airplane engine. I was wondering if its possible to get it running again?
Does it look like it has all the parts? I don't know anything about RC engines.
Also, does anyone know the exact model? It only says "D C ltd" and "MADE IN ENGLAND" on it.
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Old 06-06-2015, 11:47 AM
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Old 06-06-2015, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catse View Post
Ok, so I just found this old RC airplane engine. I was wondering if its possible to get it running again?
Does it look like it has all the parts? I don't know anything about RC engines.
Also, does anyone know the exact model? It only says "D C ltd" and "MADE IN ENGLAND" on it.
It looks like either a DC "Merlin" or "Spitfire", which were 0.75 and 1.0cc capacity respectively. The red spinner would suggest the former.

See: http://www.modelenginenews.org/cardfile/merlin.html


There was a 1.5cc version called the Sabre as well.

Cheap but useful, decent .little engines in their day. I have a few in my collection. The Spitfires were mostly anodised blue and the Merlins red, but at some stage I believe they may have skipped that step. Not really collectable but popular with Free Flighters for their docile performance.

Can you get yours to run? The position of the Compression screw suggests that it's fully wound down so it will need to be screwed out a fair way. It's probably gummed up so a good soak in a bath of Kero would help. Don't force the engine to turn over. A gentle heating with a heat gun and lots of oil may loosen it up sufficient for running.

It looks complete except for a Needle Valve. It may be difficult to get one these days. Most enthusiasts make their own. You'll probably find that someone on here may make you an offer for the complete engine.

You don't say where you are. Depending on this you may be able to find some local help with fuel etc.


Last edited by qazimoto; 06-06-2015 at 04:56 PM.
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Old 06-07-2015, 01:21 AM
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perhaps the size of the proppeller can give a clou about its capacity.
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Old 06-07-2015, 02:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieseltinus View Post
perhaps the size of the proppeller can give a clou about its capacity.
The propeller is about 18cm long (7 in)

Quote:
Originally Posted by qazimoto View Post
It looks like either a DC "Merlin" or "Spitfire", which were 0.75 and 1.0cc capacity respectively. The red spinner would suggest the former.

See: http://www.modelenginenews.org/cardfile/merlin.html


There was a 1.5cc version called the Sabre as well.

Cheap but useful, decent .little engines in their day. I have a few in my collection. The Spitfires were mostly anodised blue and the Merlins red, but at some stage I believe they may have skipped that step. Not really collectable but popular with Free Flighters for their docile performance.

Can you get yours to run? The position of the Compression screw suggests that it's fully wound down so it will need to be screwed out a fair way. It's probably gummed up so a good soak in a bath of Kero would help. Don't force the engine to turn over. A gentle heating with a heat gun and lots of oil may loosen it up sufficient for running.

It looks complete except for a Needle Valve. It may be difficult to get one these days. Most enthusiasts make their own. You'll probably find that someone on here may make you an offer for the complete engine.

You don't say where you are. Depending on this you may be able to find some local help with fuel etc.
Do I need a needle valve for it to run? Would it work if I just blocked the end of the spraybar where the needle would go in to stop fuel leaking out there or something?

I'm in Finland, I don't think they sell any fuel for diesel airplane engines in the hobby stores around here. Is there any alternative fuels I could use? Would a can of engine starter work or something else that's easy to get?

Edit:

I did some more research and it seems I have to make my own fuel..
I can get ether (start pilot or similiar spray), petrol (heater petrol/paraffin from a hardware store), and oil (castor oil from a pharmacy)

would those work? 33%,33%,33% mix for example. And can I use heater petrol for cleaning the engine? What type of oil do I use to lubricate the engine after cleaning it?

Last edited by Catse; 06-07-2015 at 09:34 AM.
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Old 06-07-2015, 10:55 PM
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Catse, those ingredients and proportions should work just fine.

Do you need a Needle Valve?

Possibly not.

I've seen the setup shown in the picture work very well in an emergency.

Seal up the threaded part of the Needle Valve Assembly with a blocked off piece of fuel tubing.

I usually use small diameter Tygon tubing for all my diesels and coincidently it just fits through the connectors suggested below. .

You should be able to buy small tubing this at a local small engine repairer.

The sort that sells or repairs Grass trimmer, brush cutters etc.

Obtain an electrical connector, the type used to connect household wiring together. There are various types but the ones shown came in a plastic covered form. Cut this off with a sharp knife..



Push the Tygon through and discard one screw if it has two. The other regulates the fuel flow to the NVA by adjustment of the screw.





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Old 06-08-2015, 01:29 AM
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Ok, thanks. I still probably want to clean it before starting it.. it doesn't seem too gummed up, it rotates but with some resistance. But the oil in it is probably at least a few decades old.
How do I remove the cylinder? If its screw-on then its stuck, i assume it has a normal thread (counter-clockwise to remove)
And I'll probably have to remove the long shaft that connects the prop and the crank with all the bearings and stuff to clean it properly, how do I remove that?
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Old 06-08-2015, 02:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catse View Post
Ok, thanks. I still probably want to clean it before starting it.. it doesn't seem too gummed up, it rotates but with some resistance. But the oil in it is probably at least a few decades old.
How do I remove the cylinder? If its screw-on then its stuck, i assume it has a normal thread (counter-clockwise to remove)
And I'll probably have to remove the long shaft that connects the prop and the crank with all the bearings and stuff to clean it properly, how do I remove that?
The small DC series engines have just a plain crankshaft (non ball) bearings. There should be no compelling reason to disassemble the engine if it turns over. Why not just remove the backplate and soak the whole lot in a small container of Kerosene for 24 hours. It's relatively benign on the engine yet still dissolves the solid oil deposits. Auto Transmission Fluid (aka ATF) is a good lubricant. .Otherwise the cylinder has a RH thread and there are flats for a spanner on the top of the fins. Unfortunately disassembling an old DC Diesel may cause more problems than it cures.
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Old 06-08-2015, 03:46 AM
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Ok, I'll try that. By the way why doesn't my engine have those flats on top of the cylinder?

Last edited by Catse; 06-08-2015 at 03:52 AM.
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Old 06-08-2015, 04:41 AM
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'How do I remove the cylinder?'

Google 'strap spanner'. Once you get the idea you can make your own from a strong length of wood and a leather strap.

But.....Don't undo the cylinder if the piston isn't completely free first.

If the piston is stuck or even stiff in the bore then it will turn with the cylinder and twist the con rod. Then you'll be looking for a new one.

So first you need to take the back plate off and with a little heat and some kerosene you can free the engine up. Then some ATF to lubricate it... just like gazimoto said.

Then you can disassemble the engine if you really need to, but as gazimoto also said if you don't need to then you are better of avoiding that.

I'm sure you'll find that it will free up nicely and then, if it feels nice and bouncy with good compression, it will run fine.

good luck,

Dave H
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Old 06-08-2015, 10:25 AM
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Once the fuel starts flowing the eather will dissolve the gunge quickly.
Have some fun with it first. Clean it later.
I think it is a merlin because of the six cooling fins. That makes the prop probably a 7x4.
Hans.
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Old 06-08-2015, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catse View Post
Ok, I'll try that. By the way why doesn't my engine have those flats on top of the cylinder?
Good question! I have about three or four of the small DC style engines and they all have the flats on the cylinder head.

As Dave has described above you use a "strap spanner" to get the cylinder fins and/or the liner off. They used to be used to screw car engine oil filters on and off

There are a few pictures of one on this site, but right now I can't find them. I do have a homemade one down the shed which I'll photograph and post during the day unless someone beats me to it. .
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Old 06-08-2015, 02:56 PM
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Double post!
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Old 06-10-2015, 05:54 AM
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Can I replace the castor oil with regular synthetic 2 stroke oil?
with 2-stroke oil the fuel would cost about 30€/liter (and cheaper in larger quantities) vs 95€/liter with castor oil
still extremely expensive though
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Old 06-10-2015, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catse View Post
Can I replace the castor oil with regular synthetic 2 stroke oil?
Better not. Castor oil has the strongest oil film between piston and liner at a high temperature.

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Old 06-10-2015, 09:24 PM
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95 Euro a litre sounds very high for Castor Oil

You can buy it on ebay (it is used in soapmaking and cosmetics) for a very reasonable price.

I have used the cosmetic grade castor oil myself (in my engines ) and it worked as well as any lubricant grade I have used.
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Old 06-11-2015, 08:48 PM
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Ray, are they standard cooling fins?

Every DC that I have seen has a single sided comp screw tommy bar and a post acting as a compression stop - as well as spanner flats.
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Old 06-11-2015, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Recycled Flyer View Post
Ray, are they standard cooling fins?

Every DC that I have seen has a single sided comp screw tommy bar and a post acting as a compression stop - as well as spanner flats.
Chris,

I suspect that they changed those features over the years. The two in Ron C's pic don't have that feature.

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Old 06-13-2015, 05:56 PM
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Catse-the Merlin first appeared in 1954 as the 'Allbon' Merlin (even though it was manufactured by DC Ltd....by this stage Alan Allbon was working with DC as one of their designers)-the very first ones didn't have spanner flats on the head-nor did the larger 1.5cc Allbon Sabre-and the compression screw was the V type. The single bar and stop pin appeared later on-in the late 50s. Yours looks to be an early one-but bits remained pretty much interchangeable over the 30 production life-so its possible parts have been retrofitted....
The spraybar thread is 5BA-not something you can expect to fin in Finland!......but a suitable tap is easily purchased from Tracy Tools in the UK for a very reasonable price. A needle can be made using 1/16" or 16swg steel wire, and the thimble from some K&S brass rod. Since its seemingly the early model, a brass thimble for the needle is appropriate.....and the Dremel....using a thin cutoff wheel-can slot the needle thimble for the 'split thimble' lock. Not a big job if you're patient and careful. The needle can be tapered using a grindstone or the selfsame dremel and cutoff disc... You can choose to force fit the needle into the thimble (using a drill press or a lathe)-or you can solder it in position-in which case a slight recess on the small end of the thimble helps-a small centre drill will work fine for this purpose-then you'll get a nice fillet of solder rather than a blob. Needless to say things have to be clean and an acid flux used-which must be thoroughly cleaned off afterwards.
If you don't want that sort of drama-look around for an OS Pet 099 Mk3 needle valve assembly-several of my Merlins are so fitted-and operate just as well with them as with the DC ones. If you can find an original OS Max 10S NVA these are equally good-the other OS NVAs will all be too large [note I'm referring to a Max 10S from 1966, not the later Max 10FSR-S or FP-S-which have much larger NVAs]

As for fuel you CAN use mineral oil rather than castor-but as others have noted above not such a good idea. I would steer well away from synthetic 2-stroke oils-such as outboard and chainsaw oils-they're intended for much larger 2-strokes with better mechanical setups such as needle bearing bigends, ball raced or shell bearing shafts etc, Synthetics specifically blended for model engine use are OK (but still fairly expensive)....

Your best bet and you were already on the right track-search your local supermarket for medicinal castor oil-in the medicine section-failing that try your local chemist or pharmacist dispensary for medicinal castor-which you should be able to buy in amounts as small as 100mls or 250ml-and that will allow you to make up half a litre to a litre of fuel-plenty. Most retail medicinal castor is supplied in 100ml and 250ml bottles. For your purposes it will be entirely adequate for lube. Medicinal castor tends to be a bit thicker than lubricant castor-but that is no bad thing on older motors. Your heating/lighting paraffin will do nicely and the start spray supplies the ether. 1/3-1/3-1/3 mix is fine-but a bit generous for oil. Youi can comfortably drop the oil to 25% and make the remaining components 37.5% each (purely for ease of measuring. The only caution you need to be aware of before starting is make absolutely certain you read the spray can of starter fluid and determine what % ether it is-very few are 100% or close to it. If it is less then you need to factor this into your fuel proportions-the other components will be hydrocarbons and perhaps a trace of upper cylinder lubricant, so these will contribute to the 'fuel' component of the mix (ie you will need to factor them in to the 'paraffin' proportion of the fuel.) For example-if your brand of starter fluid is 80% ether and you want 32% ether in the final mix-then you'd measure 40% of your final volume out as the starter fluid component. Simple proportion works-but you do need to know the % ether in the can to start with. I imagine-being up in Finland, such products will tend towards the high ether end of the range (but I've had first hand experience of 'tropical mix' engine start where the ether content has only been 25%-making it useless for our purposes!]

The only other thing you should note is don't keep your fuel in a plastic bottle-the ether in particular can leach out components from the plastic which spoils the fuel (though this depends a lot of what particular plastic is used)-its better to use a glass bottle or metal screwtop can for storing your diesel fuel in. Whatever you use-it should have a very good sealing cap-with an inner seal inside the cap, otherwise ether will slowly evaporate out.

Good luck with resurrecting this old DC...the 7" prop should be fine-it will turn an 8" quite well as well-an 8x3 or 8x4. An 8x5 is a bit much and an 8x6 is way too much load for it...one final point-as qazimoto notes above-the comp screw does look well screwed down-this may mean the engine can't be turned over, even when degummed-because the ascending piston will hit the underside of the contrapiston before it reaches top dead centre [this is what can happen when the comp screw is screwed down too far by people simply fiddling without the necessary knowledge] Once you have freed the engine up, try turning the engine over-if it won't go (and you can feel-and possibly hear-the piston striking the contrapiston, then unscrew the comp screw at least one full turn anticlockwise and try again-carefully. With care-and don't force things-you'll risk bending the conrod and/or gudgeon pin if you force it-you should feel/hear the contrapiston move back (there may be a 'snap' or a 'click' as it contacts the end of the compression screw)
......of course you may be lucky, and the comp screw may still be at the correct position where it was when the engine was last run-in which case you will be able to turn the engine over fine, without problems. It may pay to warm the engine in an oven (to the point where it is just slightly too hot to hold in your bare hand) to assist in freeing things up-old castor with time hardens into a rock like gum-and a bit of heat will soften this. Your original photo shows an engine that has been used-but doesn't look abused-I would expect to find it fairly well gummed up by old fuel residue though-so a bit of heat should help sort it.

Finally-an old toothbrush makes an ideal tool for cleaning up engines-gets into the gaps between the fins-and the various crevices on the crankcase.

ChrisM
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Old 06-14-2015, 12:13 AM
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Indeed, the OS PET099 Needle Valve Assembly is a refined and universal substitute.
What a coincedence, I have some here. And they are new in package.
So, the missing needle is not a stumbleblock. You have alternatives.

When you mix the paraffin and castor oil they will not mix. No panic; this will happen when you add the ether.

Do not use a silicone tubing. They become very, very slippery drenched in diesel fuel and they degrade fast due to ether.
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Old 06-15-2015, 12:31 AM
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That's a Merlin .75cc for sure from '54 or so. The first Merlin to come out then.. I had one of those long ago.
They had a screw on the front to hold the prop. on, and your one has been fitted with a later model Merlin threaded and anodized spinner to hold the prop. on.

If it's not too late, may I suggest PLEASE DON'T pull it apart, as it will not go back exactly the same way as when it was first run, so will run it's self in again and so will be inclined to wear out and lose compression.
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Old 12-23-2015, 04:37 AM
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Good day, Iam in need of some Merlin spares, actually a conrod
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Old 12-23-2015, 04:45 AM
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I got hold of a couple of diesels, of which the crank cases are the same, only the bore and strokes differ, one has a green head, other red, for which I need a conrod
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Old 12-31-2015, 03:15 PM
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So do you have two-or three engines? You enquired about a Merlin rod, but also mentioned two engines with identical crankcases-these will be an early Mk2 Spitfire of 1cc which had (briefly) a green head and its larger stablemate the 1.5cc Sabre with a red head. Actually only the bore differs between the two, the entire bottom end-case, crankshaft, drive assembly-is the same. Note that I did not mention 'rod' in that list as though the stroke is the same, the Spitfire usually had a smaller diameter gudgeon pin so the rods are not generally interchangable (but exceptions are known)
So it is not clear from your post above whether you need (a) a Merlin rod and (b) a Sabre or Spitfire rod or just one of the latter None of the Merlin parts will fit the larger two engines-now for the bad news....these engines ceased production in the early 1980s-and the final ones were assembled from existing parts inventories-so more than 30 years on your chances of finding a new replacement rod are about the same as a snowball's survival in hell.....that being said there ARE people out there who can make you one. Where are you located? If the UK or USA then there are various people you can get in touch with-elsewhere things become a bit more problematic. Rods are not to difficult to make yourself if you have access to a few machine tools-the critical one being a pillar drill. Bear in mind these were run of the mill sports engines, so if you should inadvertently make a rod a few thou shorter or longer between centres than the correct distance it will be no major drama. The key thing is to get both holes drilled parallel in both planes-then it is a case of simply shaping the rod outline-even using files if you have nothing better-it won't look pretty but it will work. If you do have access to something a bit better than a drill and files then of course the rod holes should be drilled reamed and have a relief on the big end face, and the shaped can be turned with ball ends on a lathe. But a piece of flat plate with two drilled holes will work at a pinch. You DO need some decent alloy-I don't know what DC were using towards the end of production but the rods wee rubbish and slogged out quite easlly. The Merlin was particularly bad for this-it may have been due to the longish stroke and short rod length.
I would suggest something like HE 15 or a high tensile aircraft alloy to make a rod from. A diesel's rod takes a fair hammering in normal everyday use, and skimping on the material specs to save a few cents is false economy (and in the case of engine manufacturers-the difference in component cost between quality and average conrod material would have been mere cents-in the quantities of stock they would have been buying for production). HE15 is quite expensive though if you're buying a 12" piece just to make a 1" conrod...

ChrisM
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Last edited by ffkiwi; 12-31-2015 at 06:09 PM.
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Old 12-31-2015, 05:11 PM
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"Mk2 Spitfire of 1cc which had (briefly) a green head and its larger stablemate the 1.5cc Sabre with a red head."

So iam looking for thr sabres rod.
Got hold of an AE 35, lost some fingers ther.

Reworked the ED racer magnesium to a shiny buety, and she runs lovey.

Then finished my ED BEE.also operating like never before.

35 green head toredo.
201 green head topedo.

The only lome is the DC motor i want to revive.there is something about those DC motors, they just want start

Iove
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