Dan Vincent

During the past few weeks I've been running a bunch of mostly 1.5cc diesels and the engines start great but quickly blow off that blue Sullivan diesel line I have.

Today I ran a Frog Vibramatic, Frog bluehead and some others but the Pick of the litter has to be the CS Oliver Tiger Cub.

That little beauty came to life with a couple of flips and ran powerfully and smooth as silk. Don't know about longevity but it sure is a sweetheart when new.

Another engine that came to life and seems pretty strong is the black case AE 1.5 RC. Unfortunately, the carb is stuck so I have to free it up but it sure seems to have some power.

My "Dud of the Day" was a new Philtech 1.5. Never did get it to pop. When I washed it off in denatured alcohol all the pretty black paint started to peel off the case.

So, getting back to fuel lines on English diesels, what are you guys using? I cn probably cut some copper collars to crimp over the line on the nipple but that's a pain. Thin wire also works. I'd rather just find some fuel line that fits tightly and stays in place.

Jim Thomerson

Your local hardware/lawnmower place should have several small sizes of tygon(?) tubing for gasoline. If you need some really small tubing, I can send you a couple of feet of some that is about 1/16 ID.

ffkiwi

Texas timers does a nice flexible silicone style tubing that does NOT come off fittings for about $1.75 per foot. It also works well in shutoffs for FF, C/L or LER Vintage R/C use. It is totally unaffected by diesel fuel-so is quite different from the run of the mill glow silicone fuel tubing. The Tygon tubing mentioned by Jim is also good. Clear plastic flexible tubing was typically used from the late 50's on-you may find similar stuff in an aquarium shop in suitable sizes. The downside is that it tends to harden with time and exposure to fuel, and whilst flexible is not crushable, so doesn't work for shutoffs. Graupner used to sell it as diesel fuel line-perhaps Hobby Lobby still has some tucked away in their vaults. If you are in a large city, try a medical equipment supplier-where you will be blown away by the range of sizes and types of tubing available off the reel.

'ffkiwi'

[email protected]

Small Parts, Inc sells many sizes of Tygon tubing and other goodies for us modelers. I have ordered "O" rings, threaded rods, graduated beakers for mixing fuel and other hardware from Small Parts, Inc. Check out their web site. Jack

Dan Vincent

Thanks Guys, I'll check with some of the local hobby shops.

Martin frequents Bob's on Underhill Road in Orlando, he runs a lot of larger engines but he might know of something local here for these smaller old-timers.

It is really discouraging to get one of these sweet little English diesels running and then lose the fuel line. Years ago I had all kinds of different size lines but they did get hard with age.

I still have many diesels I want to crank up so I need to get the fuel line problems solved.

Clack-valve diesels have always intrigued me so I ran an Elfin the other day and that Frog Vibramatic today. Next will be a Taifun Hurrikan and an ED Fury.

If you don't know what a clack-valve is it is similar in operation to a Cox Reed valve.

Jim, thanks for the tip on the lawnmower shop, I'll try that too.

AMB

Dan as stated check the hardware store also hit Skycraft surplus on Fairbanks Ave ( Winter Park) Just east off I-4 They had neoprene tubing black, bought some there last year also a great place

for fastenings for our use martin

ffkiwi

The Frog Vibramatic uses a diaphram valve-all the others you mentioned have reed valves, including the Elfin. The mode of operation of the Frog's diaphram valve is quite a bit different to a reed valve.

The Vibramatic is one of the more interesting and underappreciated 1.5's of the era-and probably the most fuel economical 1.5 of its era.Would be interesting to couple up the bottom end of the Vibramatic with the top end of a Frog150R-and see what that combination was like. Vibramatics enjoyed a short period of popularity in the 80's with the UKs Flying 15 duration class-which was sort of an 09 size Texaco event-and for which they were apparently unbeatable for economy. I also recall a few R/C duration record attempts based around the Vibramatic power plant. I have two of them-and eventually will try them out in the NZ RC Texaco A event-which has a 1.5cc-3.5cc engine range limit-the lower limit set to deliberately exclude the Mills 1.3-currently the wear of choice in RC Texaco A is a PAW 2.49 R/C with the throttle virtually closed-or the Modela 2cc in a similar condition.

ffkiwi

Dan Vincent

Kiwi,

I'll have to pull one of my vibratics apart and have a look. I thought the ED Fury, Elfin, Taifun Hurrikans and Frog were all similar.

Every once in a while I decide to run similar engines, next week it might be RRV's or rear drums.

Now that you mention it I do remember some of the SAM guys were looking for Frog Vibramatics for "A" Texaco a few years ago, before the PAW Texaco .09 showed up.

Original ED 1.3 was popular, and even the Indian Mills copies were being used. I think the Indians make a 1.5cc version of the Mills 1.3, would that be legal in NZ?

I have one of those Indian 1.0cc versions of the Mills P-75 but that one went through fuel like a Russian goes after vodka.

mylamo

My Feedback: (1)

Slice off a 1/8 inch piece of your fuel line and insert
both jaws of needle nose pliers into the little piece.
Spread the jaws and squeeze your fuel line into the
band.Voila! double strength fuel tubing end.
Ralph

Dan Vincent

Ralph, That sounds like a simple fix that shoud work. Have to try that.

ffkiwi

Dan the essential difference between a reed valve and the diaphragm (got the spelling right this time!) valve of the Vibramatic is that the reeds themselves flex bend or distort as part of the induction cycle to allow mixture to pass under or around them-the Frog Vibramatic setup used a circular disc of pen steel, tension shut against the induction tract by a light coil spring. crankcase depression then lifted the disc off its seating against the tension of the spring and allowed mixture into the crankcase. The valve disc itself never flexed or changed shape, as with a reed valve. On reflection-given what a diaphragm does-it is not a very accurate name for what the Vibramatic induction system does.
Aeromodeller in its test of the Vibramatics [there was a glow version as well]noted that the setup was critical as regards the spring tension-and that the system had given indifferent results when applied to smaller engine capacities.

Yes-a 1.5cc Indian Mills would be legal under our rules-that would be the gold headed one. John Ensoll in my own Christchurch MAC is getting nearly 20 minutes out of a 12cc Humbrol tin tank on his A Texaco Simplex-which makes the 10 minute max a bit pointless!

'ffkiwi'

ffkiwi

Dan-I have all those-other than the ED Fury. Here's something for you to try-a Cox Olympic 15 backplate and carb assembly (ditto the Sportsman 15)screws straight into the back of a Taifun Hurrikan like it belongs there-I've never gotten around to seeing how it runs though-and if there is any gain to be had.

'ffkiwi'

RocketRob

My Feedback: (1)

Dan,
Could you run your Tiger cub w/ a 7x6 and tach it? Or next best thing to run it w/ the same prop then run your Hurrikan? I am curious the advantage.

ffkiwi, I recal you mentioning the Cox back plate before, but have not tried it yet since I have no Cox - but a friend does

Dan Vincent

Bob, a 7-6 isn't a lot of prop for an Oliver Tiger Cub. I might end up with a smacked finger with that one. My tractor battery died that I use for my starter so I'm back to rapping my fingers when I use little props.

I have three Original Oliver .09's plus that sweet little MK-II replica from CS. I'm more interested in comparing the Olivers than the Taifun Hurrikan. Most of these engines are new so they would also require a suitable break-in to get reliable figures. I will probably try it anyway, just to get a ball-park benchmark. My schneurle-ported Oliver Tiger Cub should be a runner.

Using the same props can sometimes be a problem because you have to hog out the back of the prop for use on a Webra or Taifun and it's larger than the shouldered prop nut used on the Olivers. I have several matching Masters black props I could modify for RPM comparisons. Also have a bunch of Taipan 7-4 grey props but they are worth keeping original.

My Hurrikan Mk-1 is new but my Hurrikan-II is pretty clapped-out with low compression, wish I could find a new jug and piston. Too bad I sold my Cox Olympic .15 on ebay last year. That would have been interesting to see if it improved the Hurrikan .09 peformance.

Here are my Oliver Tiger Cubs. The last one, the MK-III Schneurle was given to me by Arne Hende' on one of his visits here.

Mk-1
MK-II, Series-1 CS Copy) has flat bottom profile on case
MK-II, Series-2 MOD (Factory Modified)
MK-III Schneurle

gcb

If I remember correctly, some replica Frog Vibramatics were made in India. True?

I have a real one in poor condition...but runs. I bought it used. The lower conrod is worn and the mounting holes are enlarged. Other fits are good.

George

gcb

Dan,

Are you going to run ALL of your .09's? That should keep you busy until at least next winter.

George

Dan Vincent

George, I don't know about running all of them but I need a new glo-driver to run the glo engines too.

I had this spare tractor battery and a power panel that I was planning to build into a portable field/test stand but the battery died and I no longer have a source of 1.5 volts of "Battricity!" Time to go to K-mart.

My plans for running engines were dashed this week when I discovered the neighbor lady has taken a week's vacation and is hanging around her house so I won't be making any noise 'til she goes back to work.

This noise thing has me thinking about building a test stand for the back of my Ford Ranger pickup so I can go out in the boonies and make noise. Trouble is gasoline is getting close to the price of glo-fuel so you don't want to go too far.

Jim Thomerson

The review of the Tiger Cub, Aeromodeller Aug 1961, gives a peak HP of 0.170 at 14,000 RPM. 7 x 4 Frog nylon - 14,400, 7 x 6 Frog nylon - 12,400, 8 x 4 TopFlite nylon - 11,900. This suggests a 7 x 6 or 7 x 5 is about right. HP for the 8 x 4 is about 0.160, not bad.

RocketRob

My Feedback: (1)

Dan, thanks for the Ollie photos
I've never even seen one in real life[]

And I've always been hesitant to buy a cs version thinking I just won't appreciate it - fake chinese copy[:'(]

ffkiwi

George-you're quite right-in the 70's IIRC the Vibramatic and the 2.49 at least were both being made in India. I think the quality was pretty iffy-as it was for all the Indian motors then-they've got a lot better. IIRC the Indian Vibramatic had a gold anodised head and parallelish fins-so should be easily distinguishable from an original Frog made one. I'll try and post some pics of mine over the next few days.

ChrisM
'ffkiwi'

Dan Vincent

Jim,

Yeah, 09 diesels use a 7-5 or 7-6 or an 8 with less pitch. I was thinking about .15 quarter midget engines and the way they can bite on a small prop.

For bench running I like to use about a 9-3 or so on an .09 until I find the compression and needle setting because some of these little buggers can move a 7" pretty quick when they decide to bite.

I used a 7-3 on a glow .09 engines such as a McCoy .098 and quickly learned a McCoy diesel would spin a 7-4 or larger with little effort.

The old McCoy diesel is still a favorite of mine and one of the quickest starters around. Their downside is they are noisy.

For a noisy glow .09 I think the old Arden .099 is right up there with the best of them.

lildiesel

I walked through the small engine equipment section at Home Depot today looking for bar oil. Noticed 2 feet of clear tubing with a 3/32" ID and 3/16' OD. Grabbed a package just because it was cheap compared to Tygon from the notsoLHS. No idea what it is made of, but if it can stand up to gas/oil I suppose it will work. Seems a bit softer than the same size Tygon but not a soft as silicone. The medical supply store is a good idea. Will stop when I next go past one. I have oodles of medical grade silicone tubing left over from giving drip feeds to my sister's aged cat during its last year. Too nice to throw away, but I don't own a glow engine large enough to need 1/8" ID tubing. Also have dozens of hypo needles in three sizes. Now if I could only find a Monoject with a plunger that can stand up to diesel for more than a few weeks I'd be priming and fueling with precision all the time.

Dan Vincent

I bought some printer ink a while back that allowed you to refill the cartridge.

The empty container makes a great primer. It has an accordion type construction so you can compress it to let it fill. Then just squeeze to prime.
It has a thin, almost needle size, tube which also keeps the ether in and keeps out the humidity that can mess up diesel fuel.

RocketRob

My Feedback: (1)

Micro mark has those bellows fillers with a cap - fit the small Texas Timer silicone tube, or make a brass adapter to fit 1/8" tube

[link=http://www.ares-server.com/Ares/Ares.asp?MerchantID=RET01229&Action=Catalog&Type=Product&ID=60363]http://www.ares-server.com/Ares/Ares.asp?MerchantID=RET01229&Action=Catalog&Type=Product&ID=60363[/link]

gcb

Dan and Rob,

I use both types, and both work fine. The one Rob describes has a little larger tube, and mine were bought originally for glue application.

George