srad750c

any one out there knows where i can find plans for a lanova cell or where i can buy one. [>:]

gkamysz

My Feedback: (19)

What are you converting?

srad750c

a traxxas trx 3.3 .23cc engine or a kyosho grx28 .28 cc engine [&:]

gkamysz

My Feedback: (19)

You don't need a lanova cell for that. You need a diesel head to replace the glow head.

ddd

For clarification only, a Lanova cell is a precombustion chamber were both glow plug and fuel injector are placed in a big world diesel engine, it was invented by Recardo research of england back in the 20's and refered to as a swirl chamber. What you are refering to on the other hand is an adjustable volume chamber that screws into the glow plug hole of a 4 stroke model engine. It is used to decompress an over compressed engine.

Bob Davis
Davis diesel

srad750c

thanks, been to your site. i going to get one of those babies. thanks

Motorboy

Bob, refresh you knowledge...

The diesel engine with Lanova cell:
The fuel spray, if injected through the injector with a small spray angle toward the mouth of the cell, does not produce much mixture in the main combustion chamber before ignition, which burns slowly until the outflow of hot gases from the cell has improved the mixture formation to such a degree that quicker combustion becomes possible. These processes contribute toward a slow pressure rise in the early stage of combustion and high thermal efficiency.

Also the Lanova cell are a air camber.

The Lanova cell is a development of Franz Lang who in the early days of the Diesel engine was associated with Dr. Rudolph Diesel.

The diesel engine with "swirl camber":

The swirl chambers developed by Sir Harry Ricardo, using a two-piece spherical chamber with a narrow "throat" to induce turbulence and has a injector and glowplug in the swirl camber.

gkamysz

My Feedback: (19)

Please note that we are calling these Lanova cells just like everyone else calls our HCCI model engines "diesels". The "lanova cells" do not just "decompress an over compressed engine." I'm sorry it's not the same way you think diesels should be, but it does work.

gcb

I am not familiar with these, but it seems that you need a lot of support hardware to make it work. First you need an injector or the fuel would fire all the time, then you would need to keep power on the glow plug because the catalytic reaction in a glow plug is normally sustained by alcohol in the fuel.

What would this device gain you in a model size engine that would be superior to the diesel head?

George

gkamysz

My Feedback: (19)

It seems everyone has forgotten the four stroke diesel thread.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_900816/tm.htm

AMB

Greg I have not the 52 Mag 4 strk that you did for me is a great runner, just needs a plane to go into Looks like the Enya 4 strk may be history martin

OS is running in all directions at once really surprised they have not given this a shot

AMB

Diesel? semi diesel?? well sort of like a woman being pregnant either she is is is not. Our model engines by definition are diesels, compression ignition, regardless of the means
of fuel getting into it by injection into a precombustion chamber , direct injection, or in our case thru a carb its still a diesel since the heat of compression lights off the charge
of course ether lowers the amount of heat needed to do this. the term semi diesel has been applied to glow engines , not correct, they are not compression ignition the reaction the of the
methanol keeps the wire hot by catalytic reaction hence a constant source of ignition is supplied, lose the glow plug the engine stops. My new OS32 which has lots of compression
was being broken in on glow while awaiting the arrival of the Davis diesel head, Just to see what would happen I used some Davis ABC mix, put power to the glow plug and it started
instantly, the engine was hot when I pulled off the glow power it kept right on running and very well, there is no way diesel fuel will keep a glow plug hot, the engine was warmed up , high compression thus ran as true diesel, of course when I got the davis head, it had better response and idled well martin

The Lavona cell in our model diesel may be a misnomer since there is no precombustion chamber is involved all it does is adjust the compression serves the same purpose of a contra pistion in a 2 strk conversion since a conventional contra can not be used, it goes in the glow plug hole, years ago Davis made and used one in a overcompressed Satio
some of you have decked the cylinder and or worked the head to increase the compression then to get a good running adjustment installed the "lavonia" in the glow plug hole

This what should have been done with the Enya but due to the plug being on the front of the head, you can not really safely adjust it. thus the head shim thing (a pain)
as stated before gregs cell works well in my mag 52 after raising the compression and as stated before Davis did this years ago with the "odd Saito" . It has not become
an off the shelf 4 strk diesel by any maker except Laser in the UK and it is no longer produced
from a practical standpoint a 2 strk diesel either factory or conversion from glow is still the most practical only 3 moving parts and every stroke is a power stroke, this post is long enough so no point in bringing up the advantage of 2 strk diesel again

DarZeelon

In full-size car Diesel engines of nearly all makes, the Lanova cell was present...

But since the introduction of TDI, TDCI, HDI, PowerStroke, and all other new, direct injection Diesel engines, the Lanova cell is all but extinct.


Any car manufacturer that still cannot offer (or outsource) a modern, direct injection Diesel, is better off not offering a Diesel at all.


As to the "Lanova cell device" for controlling the C/R in a model Diesel... All Diesel conversion heads from Bob Davis and also from Andrew Coholic, are better at this, having a single, unified combustion chamber.

The only place for this gadget is those converted engines that use the original glow head and use the 'variable plug volume'...

Patxipt

Dar, the Lanova cell is essential in our 4-stroke conversions due to the nature of the engines (overhead valves with lateral camshaft), otherwise, a conventional contrapiston would suffice.

DarZeelon

Quote:

ORIGINAL: Patxipt

Dar, the Lanova cell is essential in our 4-stroke conversions due to the nature of the engines (overhead valves with lateral camshaft), otherwise, a conventional contra-piston would suffice.

That's true, Francisco,


Four-stroke engines are among the conversions, for which a contra-piston would not work (unless this engine has a Ricardo type combustion chamber like many Briggs & Stratton engines with side valves - there are no such four-stroke model engines in production).

And as to this device, the "real" 'Lanova cell', in full-size auto engines, has the fuel-injector in it and it is also called a "pre-chamber"...
The one intended for model engines is just a variable volume device.


I think the name is totally inappropriate for the model item...

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

Dar, I was familiar with the Lanova cells early in life, I just didn't know that was their name. On farm tractors they had various names like. Energy cell, on Case tractors they were called Power Cells. On Farmalls the injector shot the fuel through the cell and on Case' the injector shot the fuel straight across the combustion chamber into the Power Cell, which was an acorn sixed chamber in a screwed in unit. The Power Cell had a small roughly 1/8th inch hole that the fuel was fired at then when combustion ocurred the burning fuel blew back out of the hole providing more energy to main combustion chamber. The purpose of this was to enhance mid range torque. On the Farmalls, (281 cu. in. 560s at least) the pistons would have a light brown, almost pink deposit in the center where the Pre-combustion cell would focus the fuel burn.

AMB

Hi Dar, good to see you back on the diesel site, The Vari-compression head for the conversion to diesel is still the best , PAW and MVVS 15 works but sometimes the. contra gets stuck and
then you are doing all types of stuff to getting it free including pulling the cylinder to work it free. Davis for years has made 1000s (list is on his site), A. J. Coholic has made some one offs, for a,few of us that Davis does not make. Davis did "break ranks" on the Irvine 40 diesel and made some heads to save these engines, they had a brass contra
which would drop on occasion so he did his thing and made some up which saved the engine and will keep then in service a long time, thing I have at least 5 ( it also fits the Q40 Irvine glow) no comment needed on the full size modern diesels, Downsizing I just got the Davis conversion for the Cox 049 for one of my electric park flyer conversions, guess this goes back
at least 30years, again 1000s were sold and light, strong, (yes it is getting his killer crank) martin

DarZeelon

David,


The Lavona cell in previous generation auto Diesel engines was there to enhance running smoothness... The disadvantages were that it made the engine less fuel-efficient, as well as less powerful.
Larger Diesels (most), such as those in large trucks, always had a direct injection system.

With the advent of very high-pressure, electronic injection systems and injection units (VW's Pump Düse), that replaced the old injection distributor; 'tailored injection' and multiple orifice injection valves are now used to smoothen the power delivery and noise, without taxing power, or economy.

All current generation Diesels no longer need a Lanova cell.


Martin,


I currently own no Diesel model engine.

This is the reason I don't frequent this forum as often as I did.

gkamysz

My Feedback: (19)

The discussion of Lanova cells as we have applied them to model engines, pertains only to four stroke conversions. I have never seen anyone put one on a two stroke so it's a moot point. The easiest way to convert a four stroke is with a Lanova cell. The operation is very similar, except we don't have fuel injection.

In full scale diesel there are many variations of the Lanova concept. There are even active patents for new variations. I think with piezo electronic injection the era of these things is gone.

Motorboy

This you mentioned are a swirl camber with injector in the camber.

The Lanova camber are a air camber where the injector are shooting the atomized fuel straight across the combustion chamber into the air camber who are mounted in other side of the combustion camber. Then the burning fuel blew out of air camber into the combustion camber, it will give smoother running, allowed to run higher rpm and improved starting properties. In this period the direct injection was not designed to run in higher rpm who was needed to use in the vehicles.

Also the Lanova cell are older invention than modern swirl camber.

The Lanova cell was invented before glowplug was installed togheter with swirl camber with injector in same place. Results was to save the place of the room of the engine size with smaller swirl camber. Lanova camber took more place in the cylinder head.

We call the part of the engine for "Lanova cell" in our 4 stroke diesel engines, because it works in same principle as in full size engine with "Lanova cell". Combustion are starting in the Lanova cell before the burning fuel mix are shooting into the cylinder head. See pic where the fuel mix will ignite..

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

The Lanova camber are a air camber where the injector are shooting the atomized fuel straight across the combustion chamber into the air camber who are mounted in other side of the combustion camber. Then the burning fuel blew out of air camber into the combustion camber, it will give smoother running, allowed to run higher rpm and improved starting properties. In this period the direct injection was not designed to run in higher rpm who was needed to use in the vehicles.

That's the reason I mentioned the Case Farm Tractors, the larger sizes in the 30 series Case tractors were 336, 401, 451 and eventually 504 cu. inches. But the injectors shot the fuel across into the Power Cell. The university of Nebraska tested tractors for and may still, they said exactly what Dar said that the Power Cell/Lavona cell reduced effeciency slightly but in the case of the Case tractors increased midrange torque which the Case tractors were famous for. When you ran across one of those red or yellow clay spot when plowing a field the Farmall or John Deere would struggle, the Case just belched a cloud of smoke and kept right on truckin. I loved that about them.

Motorboy

Hobbsy

I my personal never saw a real diesel engine with Lanova cell since the engine was gone out of production a long time since. I had the theory about Lanova cell in school for car mechanic. It is correct, there are not much efficient and not fuel economical compared with swirl camber engines who has smaller camber volume.

But the model 4 stroke diesel engines with Lanova cell has really better fuel consumption and more torque compared with model 4 stroke glow engines. [sm=thumbup.gif]