fiery

My Feedback: (2)

Here it is Gents, straight out of the box.

Engine comes in a plain stout white cardboard box as you can see, wrapped in a clear plastic sheet sandwiched between two thick foam inserts. No instructions or other papers whatsoever.

First impressions are good. In fact very good. Nice casting and machine work. Case is finely bead blasted to a uniform matt grey. Bright polished turned alloy prop driver and cooling jacket. Steel prop stud, plain untapered steel prop washer and smallish diameter propeller nut. Brass NVA, which is finely manufactured, no burrs or chatter.

Note the "Z" stamped on underside of right hand mounting lug and "239" on underside of left hand mounting lug. Just like my Russian iron and steel Mills .75 copy. I am sure it, and this ELFIN 149, were both built in the same facility. Same finish and materials in evidence.

There is the number "2" on top side of left hand mounting lug ... indicating "series 2", the series after the first "ABC" variant perhaps? Pure speculation on my part. Can anyone advise?

Needle is tapered at a moderate angle to a fine point, though it appears it is only crimped to the holder. A dab of solder on the end of the holder will sort that.

Steel compression screw shows some minor surface corrosion that will be easily polished out. No doubt from sitting in perhaps sub-optimal conditions in a warehouse at some point during the 15 to 20 years or so since it was made. It is not countersunk where the screw faces the contra piston. OK, I say to myself, it's not a Taipan or Oliver. Threads on compression screw are a little loose in the the head of the cooling jacket, as they were with the ABC variant I tested. No worse than some other engines though. Again, I suspect a locking lever will be installed when I run it.

The removeable steel threaded stud for fastening the propeller is a nice touch. There is plenty of length, and all propeller and spinner combinations should be capable of drama-free installation. Also saves the crankshaft in the event of a one-point arrival. Good one!

The backplate is sealed against the rear of the case without an "O" ring or gasket. I unscrew and remove it with an Aussie 5 cent coin (perfect fit in the PAW style notches) and my adjustable spanner. No burring of notches as a result. There are no gaps between back plate flange and case. Its threads are beautifully turned, no catches or slop at all in the mating threads in the case. This is top class machining and fitting. Inside of case is clean as a whistle. No gunge or swarf. Some evidence of light oil on piston and interior of cylinder from assembly. Nicely turned and finished tubular connecting rod. No attempt at balancing the crankweb, as with the original ELFIN.

Compression is outstanding. Plain bearing feels smooth to turn over and there is no axial play. A little more fore-aft play than I like, perhaps .4 mm. I've no idea of the bearing bushing, and I won't be stripping it further to find out. Cylinder taper seems less aggressive than the ABC example.

It would look really nice with an "MK-17 profile" polished "bullet" shaped spinner nut, which would also provide better facing support for the thin prop washer. Perhaps Ray or Chris can advise the thread used on the stud?

For $55 from Carlson Engine Imports, this looks a quality engine for the price. A bargain in fact. A nice package for 1.5 cc F/F and classic .09 C/L applications.

More to come when I fire it up.

ffkiwi

Stud is 4 x 0.7 metric

ChrisM
'ffkiwi'

123Cat

The ideal motor to fly your Mercury Picador down by the old Steel Mill

fiery

My Feedback: (2)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MERCURY-KE...item564ec159c0

fiery

My Feedback: (2)

Report on the Russian ELFIN 149 Iron and Steel reproduction.

Engine has been run in on the bench. The "Adrian Duncan" method was used.

THE GOOD:

Engine is mechanically sound. Castings are good and head fins are nicely turned. Fits generally are on the good side of satisfactory.

Neither cylinder nor cooling fins unscrewed.

Contra piston is a perfect fit in the cylinder. No blow by whatsoever, but it still moves up if compression is backed off when hot.

Compression screw does not "wander", so no lock lever required.

Engine reacts well (predicatably and steadily) to changes in needle and compression settings.

A flat on the flange of the needle holder tells you where the jet orifice is, and provides a secure place to steady the assembly when being tightened.

THE BAD:

Needle as crimped to the split thimble holder is 1/32 " too short. When fully wound in, passage of fuel is still possible. This lead to a running setting of between 1/2 and 1/3 of a turn out.

Prop washer is a thin stamped "off the shelf" mild steel affair. It distorts (caves inward) when prop nut is tightened. I added a thicker washer for extra security.

Minor issues, annoying but easily resolved.

THE UGLY:

This engine will not reliably hand start. It will pop and even run a little if borderline flooded, but I only achieved one hand start in the whole session.

It would start immediately on the touch of my Sullivan Hornet 1/2A starter.

PERFORMANCE:

It pulled a grey composite Taipan 8 x 4 prop at 9,900 rpm.

A grey composite APC prop 7 x 4 at 11,800 rpm.

Settings were not "pushed" and a little more was available.

Not earth shattering figures. I was not expecting more. This is a reproduction of a 1950 design. As Chris has reported the ABC version will spin 1,000 + RPM faster.

A nice little engine nonetheless. It came through its bedding-in session with flying colours; and has a nice "bounce" when flicked over cold. Value? in my view it is well worth the $55 asking price from CEI, if you can live without hand starting.

Do be careful using a starter though - conrods will bend, and crankpins will shear, if you try to use an electric starter and the engine is hydro-locked.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PR5M...ature=youtu.be

123Cat

Thanks for the report

Well done

Ive missed 2 weeks , will have to burn some kero this Weekend and splatter some castor around

fiery

My Feedback: (2)

Doesn't this just pour my whisky and butter my turnips.

Thanks again to the kind forum contributor who made this beautiful spinner nut for me.

May your diesels always start and your landings be smoooth.

AMB

Fiery or anyone that can answer , how does this compare with an 09 PAW??? I Have the 03, 06, 19,29 and 40 but no 09 , do have a semi clones Sharma 09,15,19 no issues with them

martin

nice that you got a good one

Recycled Flyer

But is proper Rrrrrrussian iron and steel comrade!

Is best to take zis engine to nearest state farm, drink Vodka and create some noise. Da!

123Cat

I know it came from Russia ,, but it will always be a British bulldog to me , there are some things that you cant take away from the British

like ruling the 7 seas

and LSR attempts


and tiny round head Diesels

AMB

123 cat Add one more, the first practical steam engine James Watt ,start of the industrial revolution martin

fiery

My Feedback: (2)

Lets look at the external differences between the Australian Doonside Elfin 149 reproduction (DE); and the Russian Elfin 149 reproduction (RE).

Note:

The DE in this example is in lightly used (very good overall) condition, with some minor surface scratches on the case, particularly adjacent to the mounting holes. The RE has only been clamped in a test stand and bench run by myself. The bullet spinner nut on the RE is not original fitment.


**** DIFFERENCES****


1. The DE has a silver "bright" finish, the RE a duller "grey matt" bead blasted finish.

2. The DE has "crisper" casting lines.

3. The DE has a taller, gently flared cast venturi with a sharp, finely machined top. The RE a shorter cast venturi with abrupt angular flare and a flattened top surface.

4. The DE has a very shallow "V" angled compression screw tommy bar. The RE tommy bar is "T", straight each side.

5. The RE has rounded section front edges on the mounting lugs. The front edges are also slightly angled back in plan view.

6. The DE has the letters KTM stamped under the right hand lug and the number 047 under the left hand lug.

The RE has the number 2 stamped on top of the left hand lug, the number 239 under the left hand lug, and the letter Z under the right hand lug.

7. Head fin thickness is slightly less on the DE.

finally, the two 'easy to spot' give aways:

8. The DE has a cast raised circle outline surrounding the dispacement numbers on the right hand side of the upper crankcase; and

9. The DE has "MADE IN AUSTRALIA" prominently cast on the crankcase under the left hand lug.

There are numerous other detail differences, especially the shape of the exhaust port pillars, which are a much wider internally and more acutely tapered to a narrow bottomed "V" externally on the DE.

brokenenglish

Sorry, this may seem a bit extreme to the gentlemen in Oz, but
Can someone explain to me why these engines are being called Elfin?
It's just a marketing hype.
The Russian engine doesn't look much like an Elfin andI think Fiery said that it doesn't even run properly... It's a shame thatsuch **** should be riding onthe Elfin name...
Not to mention the fact that the comparison reference used is ... another replica!!!
PS: I thought Ivor had the Doonside engine made in Russia... is that not correct?

PWF63

Ivor had the Mk2 Doonside Mills ABC made in Russia and they were heaps of excrement .

brokenenglish

Yeah Fredo Thanks, but I did actually mean the "Elfins".
I thought Ivor's "Elfins" were made in Russia...
Maybe I dreamed it!

PWF63

Same deal here, Ivor made the first Elfins in his own workshop in Sydney. All steel ones and they were great engines.
He then had the Russians do the ABC Elfins and they were crap, or most of them were anyway.
There would be guys on this forum that would know more than me if they want to chip in.

Fredo

fiery

My Feedback: (2)

BrokenEnglish

Welcome.

The full story (well, a summary) of the Elfin 149 reproduction saga can be found on page 149 (I do not jest) of the book "Gordon Burford's Model Engines" by Maris Dislers.

Well worth a look. Essential reading for any appreciator of the Burford engines.

PWF63

Thanks Fiery for posting this. I should have know that. Got the book myself. Must read it again..lol

brokenenglish

Thanks to you two, Fiery and Fredo. Useful information.
Shamefully, I only possess one Oz engine (a Sesqui), but the good news in all that is that we still have original Elfins and the original Ivor!

raglafart

My Feedback: (10)

Ivor came out to an engine collecto at the REMAC Christie Park field back in the early 90's before it was lost to the M2 Motorway.
He had a box load of his Russian Steel Elfin Replicas. He had a test stand and was going through every engine to see if it was a runner.
If the engine ran, it was for sale. If it didn't it was put in the non runners box. There were a fair few going into that latter box!
There was no way I was buying one.
That said, I've had a good run with his Ruskie Mills, well the one that I used in my scamble model, from memory it's an ABC too. It is fine. I bought a couple of others on the strength of that engine but have yet to run them though! Then again I don't mind projects
Maybe in retrospect I should have bought a swag of them seeing what they go for these days! [] but 09 diesels didn't have much allure to me back then [&o]

Ployd

Maris's book gives some details regarding the Doonside Elfin but it is not the whole story. I prepared this piece while the details were still fresh in my mind some years ago after the article published on the Model engineering site but never got around to sending it to Maris.

The advent of Vintage or Nostalgia free flight events in England, USA, Australia and New Zealand has witnessed a revival in the use of engines from the early 50’s especially English diesels. The demand for such engines has its roots in of all places Australia, and while the Mills 75 is not technically speaking a “competition engine” (how many versions have you seen?) it sowed the seeds of what was to come.
Having got Ivor F fully committed to the Sesqui 1.5 diesel, Gordon Burford began to consider other projects (like the Deezil, Elfin 2.49 radial mount and the Sabre 2.5 beam/radial mount engines) and it was during this frenetic period that he took time out to attend a contest at Bordertown in South Australia, the results of which would have a later impact on Ivor.

While at Bordertown (in 1986), Gordon trotted out a neat little 049 glow he had knocked up and during the ensuring discussion with the late “Bluey” Coppock and me, the topic swung around to the lack of a small legal diesel engine suitable for Vintage free flight, The pros and cons of a number of engines were considered and it boiled down to a choice between the FROG 150 or the Elfin 149. Like all wishful thinking, the discussion ended there as a pie in the sky dream, but not with Gordon as rumours started to circulate a little later that he was actively considering the Elfin diesel (the FROG name was still active and legal ramifications would prevent its use on a reproduction) to the extent that that he had completed the die to cast the crankcase AND had made a reproduction engine which surfaced at the 1988 Richmond Nats and was put up for auction.

Only bank manager and I know how much I paid for that engine but having been involved at the start of the process, I considered it a small price to pay to have the end product.

This Nationals also witnessed the delivery of Ivor’s final batch of Sesqui’s which meant that he was now free to pursue other projects and having already involved himself in the concept of reproducing Elfin 149 with Gordon’s help, undertook the project along with others in Sydney to bring it to fruition.

Elfin 149 Versions and variants.
• 1950 Elfin, UK, Mk 1. As advertised in the 1950 Aeromodeller. 10 fin cylinder jacket. There was also a glow version made. The fuel spray bar was straight. Some engines have serial numbers some don’t.
• 19?? Elfin, UK, Mk 2. Yet to find an advert for this version but the cylinder jacket now has 8 fins and the crankcase venturi tube is shorter, below the exhaust ports (see page 61 of Clanford’s book). The cylinder jacket is commonly found fitted to the Mk1 so it does exist.
• 1988 Elfin, Aust. The Gordon Burford reproduction. Basically the Mk1 with the Mk 2 cylinder jacket and a straight spray bar fitted. The “149” is enclosed in a raised circle instead of an oval and “made in Australia on the bottom of the crankcase.
• 1990, Elfin, Aust. The “Doonside” version from Ivor’s production group. Approximately 250 made from Burford supplied crankcases (Yamalloy, but that’s another story). All engines were serial numbered. Closer to the Mk1 in appearance but with the following differences: - Back plate uses an O ring seal in lieu of a paper gasket; the shaft modified to fit a removable prop stud and the prop driver stepped extension reduced in diameter. The stray bar now incorporates the bulb around the jet hole.
• 1996, Elfin, Russia, Used the Doonside engine (steel piston and liner) as a starting point and utilized a new crankcase die. The differences are obvious in that metric threads are used and the mounting lugs are smaller. Later it was produced as an ABC variant. The steel variant needed extensive work done on the liner (excessive taper), some times a new piston and the gudgeon pin replaced (too loose).

Ployd in OZ

fiery

My Feedback: (2)

Thank you for that Ployd.

As you say, this detail is not in Maris' book. Have you advised Maris? I am sure he would appreciate it. It may be useful should he ever decide to bring out "edition 2" of his work.

"Only bank manager and I know how much I paid for that engine but having been involved at the start of the process, I considered it a small price to pay to have the end product"

Your bank manager (past or present) would nowadays be delighted with the astuteness of your investment.

brokenenglish

Ployd, just a slight remark/correction, concerning your statements below:

"• 1950 Elfin, UK, Mk 1. As advertised in the 1950 Aeromodeller. 10 fin cylinder jacket. There was also a glow version made. The fuel spray bar was straight. Some engines have serial numbers some don’t.
• 19?? Elfin, UK, Mk 2. Yet to find an advert for this version but the cylinder jacket now has 8 fins and the crankcase venturi tube is shorter, below the exhaust ports (see page 61 of Clanford’s book). The cylinder jacket is commonly found fitted to the Mk1 so it does exist."

All the early 1.49s that I know of, have a 13-fin cylinder jacket (see my photo a few posts higher). I possess four early ones and, while there are minor differences, they all have 13-fin heads.
Sparey's A/M test (June 1950) and the early ads. I looked at (Elfin and KK - May 1950) all show a 13-fin head.

Secondly, concerning the later model, with fewer fins and the shorter/fatter carb, photos are extremely rare. I think this is because they were produced concurrently with the ball-race engines, which were given priority in the Elfin adverts. However, I'm sure I have seen a photo in A/M somewhere, but right now I can't find it...
Finally, and this point is only my interpretation, I think that when you note that the later heads are sometimes found on the earlier type crankcase, it's likely that, when the change was made, the new head machining was adopted immediately, whereas they probably had some early-type crankcase castings in hand, that they were obviously going to use up...

Dan Vincent

Here is a picture of a Russian VA Elfin ABC, a 1950 Elfin and an Elfin 1.49cc "Clack Valve" BB engine.

brokenenglish

Dan, you don't say whether these are your engines or not...
The PB looks nice (a great engine), but did you know that the BB engine should have a spinner nut and the NVA is wrong (the present NVAlooks like it's from a small DC engine). It would be fairly easy to obtain replacements for these two itemsin the UK.