RCU Forums - Club Mills!

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Hello! I'm happy to say that yesterday I received my long sought-after English .75 Mills, in very good condition but missing an integral fuel tank assembly.

My question is, did Mills produce some .75's equipped with no fuel bowl, but only a fuel pickup? On mine, a nut holds the valve body in place on the transfer tube/venturi; I think it's also used to secure the bowl's aluminum cover. Is it OK to gently remove the nut and install a new bowl cap (when and if I can find one).? This assumes that I can locate a complete .75cc fuel bowl assembly! Fiery kindly gave me a contact and I'll try him this week, but I thought I'd ask you all if you know a possible source.

While I'm here, I've cleaned up another recent acquisition, a <u>well</u>-used English Mills 1.3cc. As I've already mentioned, it needs a fuel bowl to replace the yellowed hunk of jelly..

So my diesel-expert friends, I'm glad to finally have two original Mills, a .75cc and a 1.3cc, both of which I want to test-run both this week! Neat, huh?

Best Regards to All, Bill

P.S. I also bid on and won a DC Sabre in well-used but otherwise good condition. To me, they are very well made British products that I really enjoy owning. I'm going to clean it up and run it this week if possible. BTW, did their cylinder head compression-stop pins screw-in, or pressed-in? Mine is missing...I know it's not absolutely needed, but I want it right! Ideas? BH

Hi, Earl, I tried the website and got a no-return message, so I guess he's finished. Too bad, as I need two Mills bowls, a .75 and a 1.3. School's out now, so let's try to get together and make some diesel noise at your house....hopefully in the cool of some morning! I've got some new (to me) goodies to show you and get some advice! Bill

Bill-AFAIK Mills always sold their engines with the appropriate style of tank (with the exception of the 2.4 which didn't have one!) Obviously for C/L use or in more recent times R/C use the integral tank was too small so would often have been removed in use. The tank retention on the 75-a couple of small aluminium tabs bent in to fit under the tank rim was not a very clever idea-and after the tank had been removed and replaced a few times-usually broke! Trying to hold the tank in with only one tab usually resulted in it coming loose in use. ....
Mills did make a throttle accessory which did not have the tank fitting as part of it, and which could be installed in place of the standard tank and venturi.
(1) yes you can run the engine without the tank top quite happily-but the jet position will be further 'up' in the venturi (by the thickness of the tank top-about .015 or .020-give or take. This shouldn't make a lot of difference at the revs a Mills does.
(2) DC stop pins are screwed in, not pressed in-the thread is 8BA (at least on the small ones-I'm not sure about the Mk2 Rapier!) -and the larger 3.5cc models didn't use a stop pin.
(3) An Irvine Mills 75 carb assembly will fit an original-but note the complete carb assembly-venturi, needle valve, tank top and tank-you can't mix and match the separate components between an Irvine and an original.......but they are thin on the ground and fairly pricey........

ChrisM
'ffkiwi'

Hello, Chris. Thanks for the good information. I did run my new (old) Mills .75cc today; it started easily and ran extremely smoothly. Not to much RPM's - an 8x3 as the guys recommended, about 7200 rpm. I can live without a bowl tank, as I'll probably use it for R/C work....I may try on the new throttle assembly that Eric sold me for the CS....hope it fits, we'll see. Bill

The Barton CL Forum has a thread where a woman offers parts (made by her dad). Could be worth investigation.

http://controlline.org.uk/phpBB2/vie...=8959&start=15

Read the email requirements carefully.

Regards

Greg

The "front door" for Lionel and Hayley Kirby, who trade as "Model Engine Spares":

www.modelenginespares.co.uk

Service is patchy in my experience. Emails are often not responded to.

****

My Mills (from post No. 36) on the bench for it's first run since being renovated. Easy starting, no issues.

Maryborough MAC Qld Australia 17th June 2012

Great pics Fiery. Thanks for posting.

Yup the sky is where they belong martin

the diesel birds take flight

Nice pics, thanks for sharing.
Fiery, which plane is everyone using and flying in the pics.

Fiery.... Wow! Bugaboos everywhere, and the smell of diesel on a foggy morning. What could be better! Thanks for inspiring me to get out more and FLY the way you fellow do!

Bill

Before we list this engine on Ebay we would like to let you know we have a new in the box Irvine Mills .045 for those who are interested.

Nice engine there DDD. I am sure it will be lively on the auction site when it goes.

From "Airborne" Magazine Vol. 1 No. 4 and Vol. 2 No. 2 1972

It's hard to remember when Airborne was a modellers mag!

Greg

It was. And is no longer.

Aussie built Doonside Mills engines have appreciated more than gold bullion at a sub $AUD 14.00 sale price 40 years ago. When I look at prices obtained today for NIB examples - amazing.

<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); ">Hello Guys</span><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: Arial; font-size: 12px; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); "><div>I have been following this thread with interest and am another 50 year plus, small diesel addict. I recently managed to acquire (don't ask!) about 500mls of IPN. I was wondering ifffkiwior anyone else that might be qualified, could advise me on how to store, handle and use (I.e. add to my fuel mix) this stuff. Many thanks, Alan</div></div>

Juxy,

I keep my fuel components in a steel box (large tool box type) well away from any heat or sparks. Try to keep it in a spot where the temperature will not get too high either.

Fuel mixing is best with good quality measuring cylinder (mines 500cc). Measure each component then decant into a mixing tin, or bottle. You'll find that the separate components never add up to the total amount mixed. The reason I've been given is that ether atoms fill in some of the open atoms in Castor. IIRC.

In Oz racing diesels get around 1.2 to 1.4% IPN depending on air temperature. UK fliers tend to use a bit more, might have something to do with more humid atmos on the top side of the world??

Check with your local TR fliers and be guided by their usage.

Greg

This is an excerpt from an email I received from Mr Rishi Kumar on 9th July 2012

Quote: "We also used to make the big Mills 500 and sold I think 50 of them back in the 90s."; Unquote.

I am correct in thinking Mr Kumar is referring to a 5 cc Mills?

I am aware of the short lived Mills 2.4 cc .... but 5 cc?

Chris ????

Bummer, I missed out on that big 5cc one. That would have been really nice to have.
Of course I missed out on the 2.4cc one too.
I have read about one here or there where someone ran or used a Mills 5cc engine on a plane. I think it was mostly in the UK though.

Juxy-I keep my fuel components in a variety of containers-in an unheated garage workshop. That being said, having a science background in chemistry and biochemistry, I probably have a better appreciation of the hazards (or lack of them) than most. I have a few basic rules that are so ingrained that I don't even think about them-they're automatic.
Diesel fuel is NEVER kept in plastic containers under any circumstances (the sole exception being the actual squeezy bottle I fuel the engine with-and its only in that a relatively short period)-I keep mine in metal bottles-the type either used for hikers/trampers for drinking or for fuel storage. They are either spun aluminium or stainless steel. You can pay a small fortune for a branded one-ie with'Coleman' on it-or a perfectly serviceable one for a lot less at big department stores. The pics show my diesel fuel containers-these are 750ml capacity-and are colour coded, so i know what mix is what. They are 'bullet proof' in the sense that they won't crack break or shatter, have good solid screw in caps with a soft sealing washer that actually seals, and of course keep the light out. They can be stood on and driven over without coming to harm. The only downside (if you ignore cost-which in my case was about NZ $7 each) is you can't see how much you have in them without peering down through the opening-and likewise it is hard to see if any dirt or particulates have gotten in. Glass bottles are quite acceptable-but should be dark glass-which seems to be only amber in the sort of sizes we are talking about. In anycase it is getting harder and harder to find suitable glass bottles these days. In the past I found 200-250ml glass medicine bottles quite useful for storing fuel. These you would typically find cough medicine and similar in.
Glow fuel I simply store in a suitable plastic container-the main consideration is having a good strong cap that seals well. Metal caps are preferable to plastic-but again a lot harder to find these days.
Shown in the pics is my fuel caddy-not terribly tidy-simply a blow moulded polypropylene tool carrier-but it takes ALL my fuel for flying-3 different diesel blends, and four glow. The third pic shows a typical drinking bottle as you would buy it from the sports goods/camping/department store. I have a couple of these sitting in the cupboard as spares against a future need.

Now to component storage-the only key proviso is metal or glass for ether-which is what it is stored in commercially anyway for laboratory use (OK -your lab may get it in 44 gal drums-but you're going to get REAL funny looks and a lot of unwelcome attention doing that at home.........!)-in either glass winchesters (normally 2.5-litre, or 3.8-litre [1 US gal]) or spun aluminium containers-I have 5-litre and 2-litre aluminium ones. The good thing about both the glass winchesters and the spun aluminium ones is they have good solid screw caps with a teflon liner. School laboratories would almost certainly get their liquid reagents in these type of containers-mainly the glass winchesters-so there is a potential source if you can befriend a teacher. And I'm talking about nearly all liquid reagents used in quantity-all the common acids, and many organic solvents-though in recent years there has been a trend towards plastic containers in the 2.5 litre size. These are generally polypropylene, reasonable solid, and of an off white colour-good for storing just about everything fuelwise except ether and made up diesel. Ie-fine for methanol, oil, kerosene, nitro and made up glowfuel.

IPN (Iso-propyl nitrate) is the modern equivalent to Amyl Nitrate which is virtually unobtainable these days-and IPN works well in our fuels. Most of these organic alkyl nitrates are slightly unstable, and will deteriorate with time in storage. This is accelerated by exposure to light-so ideally they should be kept in a dark container-I would use glass in preference to plastic, simply because glass is more inert. You would expect the stuff-when fresh, to be a very pale amber colour, and to darken with age. I have a bottle of Southern Modelcraft IPN that is now over a decade old (I bought it in the UK in April 2000) and it is now a darkish orange colour-but still perfectly OK for our use.

Now the main issue with IPN, DII or similar is that they are used at pretty small percentages in fuel, generally around 2-3% and increments of as little as 0.1% change can have a marked impact on engine running. But again this is for extreme use such as C/L team racing where the engines are running hot, hard and lean-and where the weather on the day can have an effect. Some teams have even gone as far as to have fuel mixes with different amounts of IPN or DII and use them at different times during the race or the day as conditions dictate. The vast majority of us do not need to be that picky. As you can see in the pics-I use the Model Technics diesels formulas-D1000, D2000, D3000 (plain bearing running-in and general purpose, plain bearing racing, ball bearing racing respectively) even though I mix my own fuel. These mixes use 2%, 2.25% and 2.5% IPN respectively. If your'e mixing up a litre of fuel that's 20-25mls-not too difficult-if you're only mixing up a 200 ml bottle then it becomes a little more difficult to get accurate. You need a measuring cylinder for this sort of accuracy-as Greggles has said-except that I have a range of them from 2-litres down to 2.5-ml! For diesel work in small volumes, a 5ml or 10-ml measuring cylinder will ensure you get the added amount accurate. I would use a plastic or glass eye dropper (also known these days as a 'transfer pipette') to transfer the IPN from whatever bottle or container it is in to the measuring cylinder. Plastic (polyetheylene) measuring cylinders are reasonably cheap-glass ones more expensive-but not outrageously priced in the small sizes (up to and including 25-ml) l personally prefer glass ones as they are easier to read accurately-but of course they will break if knocked over or dropped!

ChrisM
'ffkiwi'

Quote:

ORIGINAL: fiery

This is an excerpt from an email I received from Mr Rishi Kumar on 9th July 2012

Quote: ''We also used to make the big Mills 500 and sold I think 50 of them back in the 90s.''; Unquote.

I am correct in thinking Mr Kumar is referring to a 5 cc Mills?

I am aware of the short lived Mills 2.4 cc .... but 5 cc?

Chris ????

Yes Derek-its all true-the Aurora Co in India did make a 5cc Mills-as well as a Mills 2.4 replica and an enlarged 3.5cc (I don't know if it was bored or stroked or both!) variant of the 2.4, which was also available in an R/C version. Pic of the latter below. In the UK, Bipin Cholera of Michaels Models....which latterly became 'Engines Unlimited' had a few for sale on an intermittent basis. Bipin being Indian of course may have had better contacts with the factory in Calcutta than other dealers..........they also produced a Mills 0.37cc in the mid to late 90s (probably after seeing how the VA Mills 0.4cc was snapped up) but I think in very small numbers-and it was a bit of a dog I gather....

ChrisM

If you have a look back on page 1 of this thread I posted a picture of my Mills, including Aurora 5cc RC and a 3.46 RC.
I can confirm the 3.46 is a bored out verison of the 2.4.
Mine ran quite well, and throttled well also, but the crank pin climbed out of the rear disc and seized the motor.
A new disc should beeasy enough, it's on my list of jobs.

The 5cc was in a Super Scorpion for several years.
It's a heavy beast, but runs quite well on a 14x6 (about 6,200 rpm).
The throttle is great brrrm, brrm.....(long pause) brrm like an old bus.

It's being given a rest at the moment, replaced in the SS by a PAW 35 which does about 6,400 on the same 14x6, but with a much lower idle (less character but more fun for touch and goes).

I've attached a photo of the Mills 5 cc in company with an ETA 5 and Wildcat 5.3.