test stand for the little ones
 

Modified this by just drilling 2 holes for the PAW 55 spacing really for the Coxs got it from Cox International, no way will my stand take the little ones, holes in the PAW for mounting really small 2/56 or 2mm screws needed martin

using the regular plastic mount for the engine a lot more effort and needs some run time before going into a plane

RE: test stand for the little ones
 

That's the first gold anodised PAW 55 I've seen Martin, though I've seen them with pink and red fins and spinner in the past.

ChrisM
'ffkiwi'

RE: test stand for the little ones
 

Its from David Owen down where you are martin

RE: test stand for the little ones
 

Hmm-must be a 'special' done to order then-I also note the prop driver is anodised as well, which isn't normal PAW practice............

ChrisM
'ffkiwi'

RE: test stand for the little ones
 

Chris interesting saga on this one. Years ago bought #29 of a limited series (200 MADE) of the millenium issue from Just Engines UK it was plain no anodizing , being heavy handed
bent the rod trying to start, ordered new rod from Eric Clutton here, made a holder for piston used a small punch to remove wrist pin, punch slipped broke piston skirt, crying the blues to Derek he said"send it down to me". turns out crank was cracked also. a few weeks later back from Derek comes a new PAW, the one in photo (boxed) with Owens label in it plus the bits and pieces of the original martin

RE: test stand for the little ones
 

Martin, my PSP hold down bars have an extra set of 2? holes in them, they are spaced just right for several .10 size engines. When an engine is close to fitting I just use the diagonal two bolts, (2-56). Two bolts will hold a .10 or .15 size engine just fine. You can see the holes in this shot of the Enya .25D. I just flip the bars side to side as I keep the holes outboard so the stiffer part of the bar is inside.

RE: test stand for the little ones
 

Hobbsy verv clever setup one does it all martin

RE: test stand for the little ones
 

Hi Chris, Yes it's a limited edition.It is part of a series called "-Limited- Millenium Edition" .

I have Engine No. 73 of 200. I got it from Ed Carlson over ten years ago. I paid the regular

price for it; Ed asked if I wanted the regular production or the Millenium version. It runs just

like a regular version, ie: excellent.

Tony

RE: test stand for the little ones
 

Tony I plan on picking op the pieces piston/liner/crank and get the little bugger back up again rod I already have martin

#29 will live again

RE: test stand for the little ones
 

Hobbsy you charged up my old grey matter , thinking about this the current mount uses 2 5/16 bolts to hold the clamps and allow slide in the slots for width, will make up 2 new one and have them project about 2 inchs past front of mount, then do the drill and tap thing for engine hold down the current one as is does not allow clearance to get the muffler on nut
sticks up too high martin

i.e will use same bolts but the extended length of the new clamp bars no clearance issues thenany engine fits it holds the 25s and up now with no clearance issues

RE: test stand for the little ones
 

Must've been a bit of an outbreak of 'Millenium editions' then-Irvine did 'ME' versions of their 75 and 1.3 Mills replicas as well-you could even buy a matched pair for (IIRC) 200 quid! Looked nice with the black crankcase and deep gold anodised fins. IIRC (again!) there was only a run of 100 of these variants.
Unfortunately I was rather busy watching over a nasty little war at the time so wasn't in a position to do much modelling or acquiring..........

ChrisM
'ffkiwi'

RE: test stand for the little ones
 

I just bolt my engines to a piece of wood, it doesn't take that many stands to cover an engine range from .049-.15. But then I don't run engines at home, only at the field, and bring a strong clamp.

RE: test stand for the little ones
 

I'm with Mr Cox on this one-I have a multitude of wooden mounts which I clamp to a sawhorse for running (the sawhorse has folding tubular steel legs so doesn't take up a lot of room in the car when folded). With some judicious sizing, one wood mount can cover a fair range of engines (and you have two ends to use for mounting, as the pics show). The 'small' engine mount-with the radial mount at one end and the beam at the other can handle 11 different engines (mind you the radial mount flange is riddled with holes by this stage!)

Mr Cox-how does the Queen Bee handle with the diesel head?

ChrisM
'ffkiwi'

RE: test stand for the little ones
 

We have had some really bad weather here and I haven't run the QB properly yet. Just fired it up briefly on an 8x4 prop, can't wait to see the performance.

I have included a throttle lever on my RC stands, and sometimes also bring a workmate to hold the engine stand at the field.

RE: test stand for the little ones
 

I started off using a workmate, but found that they fell apart from the vibration-and short of replacing every single nut on the workmate with a nyloc one, there wasn't a lot you could do about it. I also got sick and tired of trying to find the missing bolts and nuts in the grass afterwards. The workmate does place the engine at a more convenient height for starting and adjusting than a sawhorse though......

I use an electrical connector block with the throttle wire passing through it as a manual throttle adjust. By tightening the connector screws appropriately you can adjust the amount of friction to the point where the throttle can still be moved back and forth by hand, but vibration while running won't alter the setting.

I must introduce my Queen Bee to that diesel head. It looks like the 09 Mecoa one to me-and I have one of those. My Queen Bee is one of the early ones with the straight reed and spiral spring reed retainer.

ChrisM
'ffkiwi'

RE: test stand for the little ones
 

Yes the head is the Mecoa, RJL 09 one. I don't care much for the DDD teflon seal type, it simply doesn't work. I have another RJL head for the 05RC too;

RE: test stand for the little ones
 

Mr Cox sort of did that with the MPJet 061 (there is pix posted) used the regular MacGregor engine count attached to a piece of plywood screwed to a piece of 2x3 martin

RE: test stand for the little ones
 

Chris

Where was that Irvine .20D stored? Looks like lots of oxidisation there ..

RE: test stand for the little ones
 

In a cupboard in the garage-I noticed the corrosion too when I pulled it out this morning to take a photo. Will have to give it some TLC. I suspect its only surface though. None of the others in the same cupboard are showing any signs.

ChrisM
'ffkiwi'

RE: test stand for the little ones
 

In a cupboard in the garage-I noticed the corrosion too when I pulled it out this morning to take a photo. Will have to give it some TLC. I suspect its only surface though. None of the others in the same cupboard are showing any signs.

ChrisM
'ffkiwi'

RE: test stand for the little ones
 

My test stands for small engines consists of a 1950's E-Z Just and some boards.

Edit: Forgot to mention...I clamp the boards to a table.

George

RE: test stand for the little ones
 

OK Guys looks like I am gilding the lily ,a few boards a lot easier and quicker than the metal working martin

RE: test stand for the little ones
 

GCB my test stand sort of looks like yours but aluminum the nuts conventional hex nuts not wing nuts like yours but no clearance for the mufflers on the small engines 15 and up are no issues martin

RE: test stand for the little ones
 

Hi Guys; I have an old E-Z just mount, and have taken the carrage bolt out and put it in from the top. and put a nut and washer on the bottom, giving clearence for the muffler on some engines. just a thought. Tom P.

RE: test stand for the little ones
 

Here's a purple anodised 049Mk1 Chris. Screw in liner and cooling fins as oposed to the current engine with hold down bolts.
Engine wil do 19000 on a 6x3 APC prop, Some performance.
I'm in the process of mounting it in the nose of a Gentle Lady. Should get it up there ok..
I don't know about the gold anodised one but I was of the understanding that all small PAW's were anodised earliy in the peace
with PAW stopping this as a cost cutting exersise.
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RE: test stand for the little ones
 

I believe all the smaller sizes (.03-.061) are screw in liners, and the hold down bolts are on the .09 and up.
I have a green anodized one somewhere...

RE: test stand for the little ones
 

I inherited an old PAW that was tiny and had three hold down bolts. I believe that some time ago the 049 and 06 were re-designed and are now "screw-in" liner and fins.

RE: test stand for the little ones
 

Not quite right-the PAW 55 was first introduced in plain form-subsequently a 'de-luxe' version was offered with light red/pink (it's a subjective call on colour!) fins and a spinner of the same colour. The 049 and 06 were developed from the 55, as it was the first PAW to use a screw-in cylinder setup. They came with mauve and green heads respectively-right from the start. The 09 had a blue head, and some came with a matching anodised hex stock spinner. Some of the multitude of 249 models had a black head and spinner, and at one time the 49 and 60 had anodised heads-dark green and black (but I forget which way round-I don't own a 49 or 60).

You are correct though that PAW did drop anodising as a cost cutting measure about 5 years ago-(a pity in my opinion!)

That being said the vast majority of PAWs out there (and there must be many tens of thousands by now after 50+ years of production- perhaps even hundreds of thousands) are plain without any form of anodising.

My comment was directed specifically at Martin's gold PAW 55-which is not a normal colour for any regular PAW [yes I'm aware that Peter Fisher had a short run of PK 86's made for him by PAW and these were anodised gold-but they were in the nature of a rebadging exercise-he also did similar things with several DC models]
If you take the time to compare the current small PAW's (55,049,06) you'll notice that the head shape has changed slightly from the earlier versions-the top of the head is now a lot flatter, without the gentle upwards taper towards the centre-I think (but I'm not certain) that this change came in around the time PAW ceased anodising. Personally I prefer the earlier shape (and colour!)

ChrisM
'ffkiwi'

RE: test stand for the little ones
 

Fiery-the small 3 bolt job would be either an '80' or '100' -the 80 came first-around 1980-ish and was the first new PAW for nearly 20 years. There were a number of variants though-plain bearing, single ball bearing, and a very few twin BB-as well as the 'Vintage Classic 80' [whatever that means!][Physically it means a PAW 80 with a single rear exhaust, single BB shaft and a nice polished spinner nut-but I've never seen any description of where it is different internally from the normal 80]. The box states 'Hi torque' as well so one might assume the timing has been altered or possibly even the S/B ratio. Both 80 and 100 models were superseded by the 049 and 06 screw in versions, after the commercial success of the 55 which IIRC was introduced in the mid 80's-85 or 86. The 049 and 061 followed ca 1994.

Mr Cox-quite right-only the three smallest PAWs are screw in, the 09 up are bolt down cylinder and fins. I've read somewhere that the bolt centres are different for the 149 and 09 models, meaning you can't interchange them....and perhaps other components as well.......

ChrisM
'ffkiwi'

RE: test stand for the little ones
 

Thanks Chris, most informative.

RE: test stand for the little ones
 

Here is the "Racing Green" 1cc engine. It is a pitty they stopped making the anodizing, I could imaging paying a little extra for that. The mufflers are additional options, so why not have anodizing as an extra feature too.

RE: test stand for the little ones
 

Here's a selection of coloured PAWs-ranging from the black 15 Texaco down to a 55 De Luxe. The second photo shows that there is some variation in the production. The lighter coloured R/C 06 was a second hand Ebay purchase, the dark one I bought new here in NZ-it appears the same as Mr Cox's. Note the spinner nuts are also different........both the R/C 049 and 06 were bought as a pair-the instructions for the 06 are over stamped with 'Carlson Engine Imports' at the bottom of the first page. A case of simple time fading of the colour-or a different batch of anodised components..........?

ChrisM
'ffkiwi'

RE: test stand for the little ones
 

This is exactly what DC did with the Merlin and Super Merlin after a period-the Merlin was the economy model-no anodising, no integral tank, no spinner, the Super Merlin had all 3. Internally they were the same. I forget what the price differential was-but it wasn't much. Presumably competition drove this-the Merlin originally appeared in 1954 with a red head, but no tank or spinner, and was well accepted, and pretty much had the market to itself (the Mills 75 was relatively expensive) till the Frog 80 appeared in 1957. IIRC the Frog was cheaper than the Merlin and in its Mk2 version was the cheapest diesel on the UK market. No doubt this did impact on DC's sales and they must have decided to offer two versions. Both Frog and DC I think were caught unawares when the ultra cheap ED Pep 0.8cc hit the market in the early sixties-(1963?)luckily for them the Pep proved a flash in the pan...........and as a consequence is highly sought after these days.

ChrisM
'ffkiwi'

RE: test stand for the little ones
 

Here are pics of the PAW .08 three bolt head version in CL and RC...sorry for the poor pic of the RC version.

George

RE: test stand for the little ones
 

Yes, I ran into that situation with a couple of .10's and decided to break-in small engines without the muffler. When I bought some NORVEL .049's and .061's I also got a tank mount and screwed it to a board, then held the board with a BIG "C" clamp...it didn't go anywhere. :)

George

RE: test stand for the little ones
 

OK group change of countries made in USA Cox front intake ( medallion I think) 6x3 white tornado prop Davis head teflon disc davis 1/2 A fuel NO spring starter on it
after a prime and about 20 quick snap flips off it went martin

RE: test stand for the little ones
 

They may well fire, if you are lucky, but I have never managed to get any flying out of the teflon seal heads. I cannot get them too seal. The head is either too loose, and leaks because of that, or when tightened the head flattens and punches through the teflon and then it leaks because of that. With a metal gasket though they can run, I have gotten up to ten tanks and then the seal/disk needs replacement.

The RJL is better then as it has an o-ring that seals the counter piston.

RE: test stand for the little ones
 

Mr Cox I think the Davis Cox conversion has been around since 1975 and many thousands have had success, yes the RJL in conventional in design, I think it is interesting that Cox international made and is selling direct copies of the Davis Cox conversions I would expect this of China but not Canada but I guess imitation is a form of flattery martin

the killer crank is a good idea eliminates the issue of breaking the standard cox crank, even in glow use a good idea

RE: test stand for the little ones
 

I have not seen any successful Davis cox conversions around here, and have my own experience with the teflon disk that says that it is a very bad design from the start.
Why someone Canada would copy it, I cannot see any other reason other than a lower production cost, compared to a proper head. For the end user the RJL heads are superior in every aspect.

RE: test stand for the little ones
 

Mr Cox I understand some folks have backed up the teflon with a thin aluminium one over it martin

you still have the perfect seal no blowby cut from a beer or soda can

Mr Davis is very quality orinated and ethical, he did make a head sometime back for the TT07 which is a pretty badly preforming engine on glow the diesel head did not help and he dropped it from production, the cox engines production was in the millions over the years and he has sold thousands of his conversions