RE: starting an MK 17 for first time
 

Comments on starting a new diesel which you don't have any information on. Set the contrapiston where it flips about like a comparable glow engine. Do not connect the fuel line. Prime in the exhaust with the piston up. Turn over once to assure no hydro lock. Flip three or four times. If no pop, turn the contrapiston in 1/8 turn, and flip some more. Keep this up until it fires. If it gets real dry prime again. Once it will run the prime out, connect the fuel line, open the needle a couple of turns, and suck fuel to the carb. Prime and flip. It should start running. If it dies with fuel coming out the exhaust, turn the needle in. Once it gets running back off the contrapiston until it is running smooth and fast. Back it of a little more so it is undercompressed and missing, and proceed with break in. Fiddle with compression and needle until you understand same.

RE: starting an MK 17 for first time
 

No argument re the lower compression required, but I believe there may be more to it than that. The suggestion to run a lighter load when running-in a diesel came from someone I regard as being very knowledgeable and experienced on the subject.

RE: starting an MK 17 for first time
 

Agreed, I think that a 10x4 is a bit much too when running in also - in normal circumstances.

But here the owner is having trouble getting even that far and its more the quoted 'flywheel weight' thats could assist here rather than the sheer diameter.

Get a 'pop' out of it firstly and if a 10x4 helps this then I am all for it!
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RE: starting an MK 17 for first time
 

My MMVS15D reads a 9x5 on the instructions a 10x4 should be the same load or close it will allow running at a lower compression as stated also the temp should be a little lower and more even
if you can run 9500 to 10000 good peak break in speed of course vary the speed and allow a cool down between runs this should really temper up the liner and piston in a classic iron piston engine even on my ABC conversions I break the rules they may only get 10-15 minutes on glow then on with the diesel head, of course the compression screw is pretty far down
but slowly after a few runs you hear the compression picking up (running overcompressed) so I back it out as time goes on its on the money maybe hits an other turn out finally there.
sooner or later, but in the air doing it. Have not had any issues or engine failures I have stuck with TTs irvines,ASP, OS, Enya( not conversions diesel from the factory) the ringed engines do take longer but we get there. and the ringed do get the electric starter martin

Post note my new sure start Cox 049 NEVER saw glow fuel on with davis head and off we went

RE: starting an MK 17 for first time
 

The Mk-17 is a short stroke .09 (1.5cc).

George

RE: starting an MK 17 for first time
 

George and the rest thought it was a 15 do not think it will spin a 10-4 at 10000 maybe 7500-8500 and yes maybe the 9x4 is the right one, the 10x4 is a little aggressive and really can be an overload on the crank and rod martin

RE: starting an MK 17 for first time
 

Ok, point taken, a 10x4 may be too much of a on a 1.5cc short stroke diesel as Diesel Fan says its the flywheel affect that I was aiming and it was not my intention to give out bad advice - I will amend that post.

Thanks.

RE: starting an MK 17 for first time
 

Ok group the only reference I have is the instruction sheet with my PAW 09 Max 8/6 run in 7/6 min 6/3 (these numbers for the PAW 09) and if not mistaken?? a long stroke engine also my AP hornet 09 says min, 6/4 max 7/4 and it is short stroke 12.5 bore 12mm stroke ( well almost square) and this engine is well, not a powerhouse

regards martin

RE: starting an MK 17 for first time
 

Martin, you can't compare the wide range of prop use on a diesel with glow because you would need to adjust fuel, head shims, and glow plugs for timing adjustment for a glow. Also you would need to compare the firing characteristics and lubricating qualities of the fuels, I believe.

I just reread the Mk-17 instructions. There is a small sheet CARLSON added which suggests a 7x3 to 9x4 prop, plus recommends break-in with a 8 or 9 inch prop.

George

RE: starting an MK 17 for first time
 

hello again,
great advice from this forum . You guys are great. I'm sure that this thread has not only helped me but has also helped a lot of other people.
I planned on using the prop that came with the engine, but  I wondered what the dimensions 7 x 3 or 9 x 4 for the props mean.
John           mlazee

RE: starting an MK 17 for first time
 

Use the 9X4 to first start it.  It will give you some flywheel effect.
Be sure to bolt it down properly to a strong bench as well so it can't escape when it fires up.

RE: starting an MK 17 for first time
 

GCB I forgot to mention the AP hornet 09 has been converted to diesel with a head by A.J. Coholic so guess add an inch to the prop sizes shown on the AP instruction sheet (glow) sizes
Davis does show and 8x5 for a .10 conversion so 8x4 sounds about right a 9x4 should be in range too
martin

RE: starting an MK 17 for first time
 

John,

Although mine did not come with props, the instructions refer to a 7" prop as being included. When we quote prop sizes, the first number is the diameter (in inches), the second is the pitch, or distance traveled (in theory) in one rotation.

A 7x3 is a seven inch diameter prop that would travel forward three inches in one revolution. In actuality, many factors prevent it from actually moving that far. In this case, props from seven to nine inches in diameter are recommended.

Think of prop sizes as gears in a car. A larger diameter and lower pitch would provide more pulling power...like low gear, and a smaller diameter but larger pitch would be like high gear. You generally vary diameter and pitch depending on the type and size of airplane you have.

George

RE: starting an MK 17 for first time
 

Why not use the prop it comes with?:D The reason I said to use the 1/3, 1/3,1/3 mix is that that is what the manual says to use.



Here is a few more manufacturers recommendations on fuel

http://www.carlsonengineimports.net/...eselinfo.shtml

scroll down for table

RE: starting an MK 17 for first time
 

Something is seriously wrong here, I wouldn't recommend anyone to that doesn't even know what a prop is (?!) to begin with a diesel engine on their own....

These things are not toys and they can seriously heart you, if you don't know what you are doing. Better join a nearby club and they'll help you out.

RE: starting an MK 17 for first time
 

I has the two engines MK-17 and one of the the MK-17 are unused (NIB). I checked the instruction about fuel and propeller (i am reading russian cause i am married with ukrainan wife :)).

1. The propeller size are 180 mm, also use 7" propeller. But there are not wrote about pitch, my propeller who are included in the engine set for MK-17 has a about middle to near coarse pitch. Also difficult to find how much are the pitch in the propeller. The solvent are to compare the original propeller with a lot of 7" propeller with differnce pitch and a tachometer to learn out wich propeller has about same rpm as a MK-17 are running with original propeller.

2. The fuel mix are 1 part kerosene, 1 part ether, one part castor oil. No ignition improver added.

From the factory who are tested the MK-17 for effect and venturi: 12 000 rpm with 5 mm venturi who are giving the effect 0,15 hp.
The measuring of hp can be difficult to be reliable since the measuring tools are not better as in modern tools.
The alternative are testing the propeller and tachometer then checking the hp and thrust in the Thrusthp program.

RE: starting an MK 17 for first time
 

Why not use the prop it comes with? Probably because its the size its designed to run with (once its run in so go up a size here) and anyway who in their right mind would choose a nylon Russian prop over what is available over the counter these days?

The first thing that I would do with any of these Russian package deals is ditch the prop and use an equivalent APC or similar as they are far moreefficient.

Just be careful about using the fuel table on the Carlson site, it states good ratios for different engines but its not a given that the oil is castor.
I wouldn't use anything but in a steel liner/ cast ironpistonengine and a few percent of amyl nitrate or iso propyl nitrate wouldn't hurt either.


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RE: starting an MK 17 for first time
 

The 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 formula is a good place to start if you need to mix your own. It is also probably what was available to most in Russia.

Carlson's site lists the formulas supplied by manufacturers. I don't have separate mixes for each engine. Commercial model diesel fuels should work fine. I would add extra castor if using a plain bearing and the blend is for BB engines.

I would recommend a 9x4 wood prop for initial runs on a Mk-17, especially for someone new to diesels. That's what I used. First run was very rich with compression very low to flush out the engine. The second run was for two minutes to allow the engine to thoroughly heat up and adjust to peak. Subsequent runs were short one minute or so runs at peak, with thorough cool-down between runs. I pulled the fuel line to stop it, so it would cool by air, not fuel. This method provides proper heat cycles for fast and thorough break-in. Of course there are other methods, but I like this one.

In all honesty, I would not let an APC prop near a diesel until the engine is broken-in and I know the running characteristics of it. They bite hard!

George

RE: starting an MK 17 for first time
 

First run of an MK-17 after a re-build. 7 x 4 AvioModelli "Supersonic" propeller fitted.

Engine has been fitted with a new custom made replacement piston. Excessive fore-aft play in the crankshaft has been shimmed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ep-UOKP6818

RE: starting an MK 17 for first time
 

Fiery, I had a couple of new MK 17s about 20 years ago.
I tried to run in the first one, gently, but apparently the engine was supplied filled with some kind of abrasive substance, and after a couple of minutes of gentle running, it had no compression at all!
I therefore disassembled the second engine and cleaned it out well. The result was a bit better, but after the impression left by the first one, I got rid of them both (with honest descriptions!) at the earliest opportunity (to "glass case" type collectors).

RE: starting an MK 17 for first time
 

Don't know how to spell it in Russian but here in Australia we call it swarf and its a strong case for getting the back plate off and rinsing the engine with kerosene before even turning the prop over.

RE: starting an MK 17 for first time
 

I regard removal of back plate and careful inspection a must with any new engine. Others may disagree as of course is their prerogative.

RE: starting an MK 17 for first time
 

Any production line engine need to be stripped and cleaned out and de-burred if you want a good engine.<div>Specially the cheaper Russian engines. makes all the difference in longevity and performance of your engine. </div><div>
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RE: starting an MK 17 for first time
 

I converted a brand new MK-17 to RC with a modified OS Pet .09 carb.

Being new it was a little hard to start the first time but with a little running and proper settings it restarted easily.

I used a white plastic Tornado 9-3 prop and got it down in the mid 2000 range at idle. I'm sure it would have gotten better with a little more break in but I sold it.

RE: starting an MK 17 for first time
 

As I said, my own experience was 20 years ago but, at the time, I remember thinking that it wasn't swarf, and that some kind of paste (running in compound) had been purposely put into the engine. I think it the exhaust gunge appeared to contain a gooey substance... But it's a long time ago, and such paste could well be something that was used at a certain period, but not throughout the whole production time...